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03-25-2012, 07:45 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 261
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Boondocking and 12V Systems
All,
On this, as well as several other RV forums I try to follow, there are numerous threads about issues with batteries and boondocking. I've written several responses and am getting tired of writing To that end I wanted to start collecting the information in a single location. I've had a more or less unused blog site for a while an decided to write it up there.
Factory RV 12V Installations and Boondocking
I have a lot more work to do, but wondered if some of you could take a peek at it and give some feedback?
Thanks all!
-Chak
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03-25-2012, 08:13 PM
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#2
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 12
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This looks like the start of a very detailed version of DC for DUMMIES. I personally like it and will benefit many of us. Thanks for the work and I am looking forward to additional info. I currently use a Deep Cycle Marine battery and am considering adding a second battery into the system and was wondering if the Convertor/Charger will support charging 2 batteries. Run from the charger to the batteries is less then 6 foot. I just plan on piggy backing the second battery off of the first battery. I beleive this is OK as the batteries are identical in size, and age. Any advice or should I havethe fire department standing by? I plan on a fuse between the first and second battery of the same amperage of the fuse on the primary battery. Probably not necessary but would like the peace of mind in the event of a chaffed wire etc.
__________________
Graybeard, aka Glenn
"A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.' That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it."--Author Unknown
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03-25-2012, 08:55 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: PNW
Posts: 5,195
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Hey Chak,
Nice write up, but the way I figure it 1.7% of 12 VDC equals 0.204 VDC, not just over 2 volts.
Bill
__________________
Bill
2011 Dodge Ram 1500 HEMI Quad Cab
2011 Jay Flight 26BH
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03-25-2012, 09:55 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Saratoga Springs, UT
Posts: 191
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220, 221...whatever it takes...
__________________
2016 JayFlight X23F
11 Expedition EL
4 Girls under 8 yrs old
1 Wife
1 Dog
2 guinea pigs that stay home...
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03-25-2012, 10:32 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokerBill
Hey Chak,
Nice write up, but the way I figure it 1.7% of 12 VDC equals 0.204 VDC, not just over 2 volts.
Bill
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Thanks for catcihng my goof on this one. A decimal place makes a huge difference! I fixed that goof....
I'm finding it hard to articulate how minor changes in voltage at the batteries from the converter reflect into how much time it takes to charge the batteries. It is VERY significant. I'll get it
Thanks for catching my error!
-Chak
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03-26-2012, 06:47 AM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Norwood, New York
Posts: 84
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anxiously awaiting more..... !
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03-26-2012, 06:49 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,526
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It's a good write-up, Chak and I am glad SmokerBill set you straight on the percentage.
What you might consider adding is a simple diagram on series and parallel wiring of batteries (6V vs. 12) so folks understand. That would address Graybeard's question too.
__________________
Mike, Sue, Sissy and Little Man
2015 Ford F350 Lariat FX4 6.7 CC DRW
2015 Eagle Premier 351RSTS
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03-26-2012, 07:11 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: PNW
Posts: 5,195
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No problem Chak! With my setup it seems like it takes an awful long time to get the batteries to a full charge state. I have 2 group 27 marine batts and a Honda EU2000i generator. I'd guess that the distance from batts to converter is about 20 feet on mine. I'm going to pull out my meter and measure the voltages at the converter outputs, and at the battery terminals next time it's charging to see what the measured voltage drop is.
Bill
__________________
Bill
2011 Dodge Ram 1500 HEMI Quad Cab
2011 Jay Flight 26BH
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03-26-2012, 07:49 AM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: DeWitt, MI
Posts: 1,212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakara
All,
On this, as well as several other RV forums I try to follow, there are numerous threads about issues with batteries and boondocking. I've written several responses and am getting tired of writing To that end I wanted to start collecting the information in a single location. I've had a more or less unused blog site for a while an decided to write it up there.
Factory RV 12V Installations and Boondocking
I have a lot more work to do, but wondered if some of you could take a peek at it and give some feedback?
Thanks all!
-Chak
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Just a question...wouldn't this be seen by more people in the Boondocking section?
http://www.jaycoowners.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12
__________________
MODERATOR
2007 Jayco Feather 19H
2008 Ford Explorer SportTrac
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03-26-2012, 09:50 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokerBill
No problem Chak! With my setup it seems like it takes an awful long time to get the batteries to a full charge state. I have 2 group 27 marine batts and a Honda EU2000i generator. I'd guess that the distance from batts to converter is about 20 feet on mine. I'm going to pull out my meter and measure the voltages at the converter outputs, and at the battery terminals next time it's charging to see what the measured voltage drop is.
Bill
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Yep - there are 2 parts too it. The 2 stage converter is a slow charger to begin with, then couple that with undersized/over length wire and you end up with a LONG charge time.
-Chak
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03-26-2012, 09:53 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake Plissken
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Good suggestion, Snake... I will move it there.
__________________
Mike, Sue, Sissy and Little Man
2015 Ford F350 Lariat FX4 6.7 CC DRW
2015 Eagle Premier 351RSTS
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03-26-2012, 10:03 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: PNW
Posts: 5,195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakara
Yep - there are 2 parts too it. The 2 stage converter is a slow charger to begin with, then couple that with undersized/over length wire and you end up with a LONG charge time.
-Chak
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My TT has a Progressive Dynamics PD4500 Power center, which has 3 stage charging. I've monitored the charging voltage in the past, at the converter end, and most of the time it's in normal mode (13.6 VDC). It takes a long day of running the generator to bring the charge up enough to make it to storage mode (13.2 VDC).
Quote:
Inteli-Power 4500 Series models can recharge the battery to 90% in 2-3 hours using our patented Charge Wizard technology.
The built-in Charge Wizard automatically selects one of three operating modes: BOOST, NORMAL, STORAGE.
BOOST Mode - Indicated by green LED remaining on. The output voltage is 14.4VDC to rapidly recharge the battery up to 90% of full charge.
NORMAL Mode - When the battery is between 50% and 90% charged, the green LED will flash once per second. When the battery has reached 90% of full charge the green LED will flash 2 - 3 times per second. In this mode the output voltage is 13.6VDC and the converter is safely completing the charge of the battery.
STORAGE Mode - Indicated by green LED flashing every 6 - 8 seconds. In this mode the output voltage has ben lowered to 13.2VDC, the RV battery is fully charged and the converter is maintaining the charge.
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Source: http://progressivedyn.com/all_in_one_pd4500_1.html
Bill
__________________
Bill
2011 Dodge Ram 1500 HEMI Quad Cab
2011 Jay Flight 26BH
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03-28-2012, 12:03 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 261
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Get the Charge Wizard for the PD converter (cheap), then you can not only tell what mode it is in, but force it to a particular mode.
When it is in boost mode (14.4 I think) you can measure at the batteries and know if you have this issue...
-Chak
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03-28-2012, 05:49 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,526
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Check your converter model # and you may find you already have the Charge Wizard. I know ours does and it's a 2010.
__________________
Mike, Sue, Sissy and Little Man
2015 Ford F350 Lariat FX4 6.7 CC DRW
2015 Eagle Premier 351RSTS
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03-28-2012, 08:36 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 261
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Yep - if it has the built in wizard, pick up the pendant that lets you not only see what mode it is in, but change the mode at will. Then you can force it into boost and see how much voltage you have at the batteries.
That 4500 of Bill's looks nice - all in one place with built in wizard and pendant. Cool. If only my power panel was closer to the batteries I would have done something like that!
-Chak
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03-29-2012, 06:46 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 2,210
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I have a hard wired inverter in my unit that has three digital readouts for voltage in, out and left. I like this feature better than the stock status since it provides an accurate voltage readout rather than the 1/4 increment lights. I can quickly see what the input is this way without having to read the blinking lights mode.
__________________
2014 375 BHFS Eagle Premier
2014 Ram 3500 Longhorn DRW CC
6.7 CTD, Aisin, 4.10's
Yamaha EF3000iSEB
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04-04-2012, 07:34 PM
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#17
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 61
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Nice write-up. I just purchased a new to me 2010 Jayco 17z. I have not used or tested anything yet, however I noticed the same as you mentioned, the converter/charger is in the rear & the battery is all the way up on the tongue. At this point I don't know the type of charger or gauge of cable used but I will be checking & adjusting this as need be. I'm hoping to do a dual battery system. I'd like to move the single 30lb propane tank forward on the tongue to where the single battery is & then in the wider space between the A-frame behind the propane tank, make a new shelf & box to fit 2 batteries. I have to be careful considering the GVWR of the 17z.
I did notice in your write up you said "I’m not clear why they call the Chargers in RV’s Converters" but then below that you said "It takes the 120V AC household power from your plug in and converts it into nice, battery friendly 12V DC power"
You answered your own question. They perform 2 tasks, converting AC to DC & sending a DC charge to the batteries. I guess primarily it's a converter & secondly it's a charger so they just picked one & called it a converter.
But great job on your research & willingness to share this knowledge with others. Something to add to your write up eventually would be converting DC to AC using an inverter. Many people aren't aware of the draw this creates on batteries because when converted, 1A AC = Approx. 10A DC. Don't take long to drain a couple batteries.
Here is a post where I was trying to help someone out with this very issue. http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthread.php?t=6378&page=2
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04-11-2012, 09:43 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 261
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
3'senough - Yes, the built in guage is next to useless. For now I'm using my old Fluke digital but will be installing something for battery checking/monitoring.....just not sure what yet.
cablerum - good idea on inverters. I don't use them much myself, although did have a AC 40W heat blanket for my wife this last weekend that worked just fine.
Just for all - just got back from a 3 night stay in the mountains. Temps at night ran as low as 25F and we kept the heat on @ 60F while sleeping and 70F when awake. Day-times were warm and the furnace wasn't running Took showers and used LED lights liberally. My 2 x 6V Engergizers read 12.3V right before I hooked up to haul her home. I still had 70% battery left!! I'm really excited about this result. Also, once home they were back to 90% in just over an hour - at which point the converter dropped down to slow charge for the last 10%. I'm calling it a success!
I'll get back to the blog all - I promise!
-Chak
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04-12-2012, 04:50 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,526
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That's great results for the 2x6 Energizers, Chak.
Here's a gauge you may want to consider:
http://www.bestconverter.com/Trimetr...tor_p_314.html
You will need a shunt and cable so shop around.
__________________
Mike, Sue, Sissy and Little Man
2015 Ford F350 Lariat FX4 6.7 CC DRW
2015 Eagle Premier 351RSTS
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04-12-2012, 11:08 AM
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#20
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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__________________
2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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