Dry Camping Question

[Isaacs]

Before I got my solar panel I did the two battery thing. We would get four or five days out of a battery. We have no fans or electric awning but the two of us each took a shower every morning; lots of pump activity. I would bring a battery charger and find a place to charge the non working battery to extend things to two weeks--think bathrooms, marina buildings, pavilions, unused electric sites.

[Dustdevil]

Originally Posted by 01tundra

While I'm off topic -

My owners manual says to only use a Group 27 deep cycle battery.

Lifeline is a true deep cycle AGM and I've read a few comments about having to adjust how it's charged.

Will I have to do anything other than drop the new battery in the box on the tongue and hook it up? I want to make sure that the on-board charging system is set up for this style of battery.

Mmmmmm.... your charging system might have an AGM type charging cycle. If it does, it will be in the manual for the power control center. Might be a switch, might be a mode if you have a LED or LCD display. Maybe someone who has a similar unit for 2017 might know more if they are using theirs. Either way, I wouldn't let it stop me from getting a deep cycle AGM. You get max lifespan out of them if you charge it according to the multi-mode AGM charging cycle, but it only costs you maybe a year of lifespan at the most if you just use a normal lead acid cycle. For example, my Jeep has an AGM battery as the main power source, and it's just charged with the factory alternator setup. I expect to get probably 4 years out of it.

[Dustdevil]

Here ya go. This describes AGM charging cycle, and probably isn't good to use for regular lead acid or deep cycle lead acid batteries:

Power Converter
The power converter converts 120-volt AC power to useable 12-volt DC power when the
shore power cord is connected to an external power source.
The converter has a built-in protective thermal breaker that will shut it down should
overheating occur. Overheating can be caused by operating the converter above its maximum
power output for an extended period of time, or by an obstruction to its ventilation air flow.
To reduce converter heat build keep unnecessary 12-volt lights and motors turned “off”.
Keep the converters cooling fins and fan clear of obstructions.
Red LED indicates blown fuse.
Absorption (Normal) Mode: 13.6VDC range. Batteries are being charged, just at a slower
rate. Converter will not work without AC input
Float Trickle Mode: To get your converter into this mode reduce the load on the system
to almost nothing but the battery. Let the system sit for approximately 44 hours. Converter
voltage will drop to 13.2VDC. If the converter sees any load during this period or after it is
in Float Mode it will revert back to Absorption (Normal) Mode. 13.6VDC.
Bulk Mode: Converter will not jump into the “Bulk Mode” unless the battery is below 50%
of charge, or approximately below 13.2VDC output voltage. There is no way to force it to
go into Bulk Mode.

USE ONLY A DEEP CYCLE BATTERY FOR RV USE. Car batteries (CCA rating)
are not designed for RV applications. If doing a lot of dry camping use a deep cycle
battery rated in amp hours only. (NO CCA rating)

If using multiple batteries they must be the same brand and type. Adding more batteries will provide longer use of DC appliances when not on shore power but may reduce charging efficiency.

[01tundra]

Thanks for the info.

I've done some research and I'm almost positive that this is the info for the load center installed in our Hummingbird. Sounds like I'm OK.

WF-8735 model converters provide 35 Amp DC output, and a highly reliable nominal 13.6 VDC with or without a battery. No extra filtering is required.
WFCO’s three-stage battery charging results in longer battery life and is totally automatic. Nominal voltage output modes are a 13.2 VDC range “float” mode, 13.6 VDC range “absorption” charge mode, and a 14.4 VDC range “bulk” charge mode.

[Mustang65]

Originally Posted by Isaacs

...... the two of us each took a shower every morning;

Did you use the save water method?

Sorry, I could not resist..

Don



My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by 01tundra

Thanks for the info.

I've done some research and I'm almost positive that this is the info for the load center installed in our Hummingbird. Sounds like I'm OK.

WF-8735 model converters provide 35 Amp DC output, and a highly reliable nominal 13.6 VDC with or without a battery. No extra filtering is required.
WFCO’s three-stage battery charging results in longer battery life and is totally automatic. Nominal voltage output modes are a 13.2 VDC range “float” mode, 13.6 VDC range “absorption” charge mode, and a 14.4 VDC range “bulk” charge mode.

That is what WFCO says, but in reality most of us find there is no, or much too short, period of "bulk" mode charging with the WFCO. And the "bulk" mode is when the bulk of the charging takes place. So recharging batteries is a slower process than it is with other chargers.

In my experience, the other two modes seem just fine.

[Kim Gass]

I'm at a loss why you need another cooler unless you just have too much food for the fridge. The fridge works fine as a cooler for eight hours or so

[bdreinv]

We are only one year into solar.One thing we found out the more watts the cheaper the panel.Are 275 watt 60 cell panel 250.00, and no tax.

[01tundra]

Originally Posted by Kim Gass

I'm at a loss why you need another cooler unless you just have too much food for the fridge. The fridge works fine as a cooler for eight hours or so

Because we have to feed three for 2-3 days typically and our refrigerator is tiny. With a toddler, we have to keep half a milk cow on tap.....and then there's wine, that stuff takes up some space

[01tundra]

Originally Posted by oldmanAZ

That is what WFCO says, but in reality most of us find there is no, or much too short, period of "bulk" mode charging with the WFCO. And the "bulk" mode is when the bulk of the charging takes place. So recharging batteries is a slower process than it is with other chargers.

In my experience, the other two modes seem just fine.

Does this mean that it will shorten the life of a true deep cycle AGM?

If so, are we talking substantially?

I talked to Jayco and they say to use a Group 24 and that's what the current Interstate battery is, but the manual clearly states to use a Group 27 deep cycle battery.

I just ordered a new battery box that will fit between the mounting rails and accommodate a LifeLine GPL-27T battery.

Any idea on whether or not the battery will be too much for my charger? I think Jayco was saying Group 24 because that's the size box they provide and a Group 27 won't fit in it.......kind of odd that my owners manual states:

"The 12-volt system is designed for usage with a Group 27, deep cycle battery."

When it is time to replace the auxiliary battery, replace it with a Group 27 deep cycle battery only.

[oldmanAZ]

(My responses in bold.)

Originally Posted by 01tundra

Does this mean that it will shorten the life of a true deep cycle AGM? I don't know. I'm not a 12v or battery guru.

If so, are we talking substantially? I don't know.

I talked to Jayco and they say to use a Group 24 and that's what the current Interstate battery is, but the manual clearly states to use a Group 27 deep cycle battery.

I just ordered a new battery box that will fit between the mounting rails and accommodate a LifeLine GPL-27T battery.

Any idea on whether or not the battery will be too much for my charger? None. My point was some of us found our OEM WFCO lacking when charging standard group 24 or group 27 batteries.

I think Jayco was saying Group 24 because that's the size box they provide and a Group 27 won't fit in it I agree.......kind of odd that my owners manual states in big bold letters "Use Group 27 deep cycle battery only" Add that to the list of odd stuff in the printed manual.

[01tundra]

Just spoke with Jayco again and asked them why they state to only use a Group 27 in two places in my owners manual but told me 24 this morning on the phone.

The guy I just talked to says that they use either 24 or 27 in our Hummingbird and both are fine.

I'm sticking with the plan of putting the Lifeline Group 27 in it and using the current 24 as a back-up.

[Nukeneck]

Geeeez, sounds like you're piloting Apollo 13

[01tundra]

Originally Posted by Nukeneck

Geeeez, sounds like you're piloting Apollo 13

It's way more complicated than that

I'm an engineer.......I'm programmed to overthink and second guess every decision I make

[ttavasc]

Originally Posted by 01tundra

It's way more complicated than that

I'm an engineer.......I'm programmed to overthink and second guess every decision I make

Recommended reading --> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/14...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Both my daughters are hooked up with newly minted engineers so this was the stocking stuffer last Christmas....

[jasum]

Originally Posted by 01tundra

I know this has been asked a million times on here in just about every way possible....and I also realize that there's no definitive answer due to all the variables.....but

We are doing our first dry camping trip at Elkmont CG (GSNM) in October and I wanted a sanity check.

Our little Hummingbird has one Interstate Group 24, 12V deep cycle battery that's basically new.

The plan is to only use the water pump when absolutely necessary, we only use the toilet for liquid use, so we'll be using the bathhouse for everything else.

We have LED's inside, all but one are controlled from a master switch, but can also be turned on/off individually. Our plan is to only use the one LED puck light over the dinette for interior lighting purposes. No TV or radio usage.

No heat usage of any type and maybe minimal ventilation fan usage (Vortex 2 - 0.8 to 1.4 amp draw and 2.2 amp motor) for that time of year. We'll run the refrigerator on gas and all of our cooking is always on gas outdoors, so only control voltage for the fridge (I'll turn the ARP cooling fans off).

Might roll the awning out/in. Will run the slide out/in while still hooked to our TV.

I'm sure there's some small parasitic draws that I'm not accounting for.

Camping for two nights. Most of that will be spent outdoors, mostly just sleeping in the TT.

Think we'll be able to stretch the single battery for two nights if we're really conservative on power usage?

I'm trying to avoid hauling our Honda 3000w generator along if possible, so another idea I had would be to either purchase a spare 12v or two Trojan 6v batteries and throw them in the bed of the truck for a swap out if needed. We can't afford to change permanently to two 6V batteries due to GVWR limitations on our TT.

Thanks.

We have NOT camped without electric since back in early 2000 and with a 26' tt. We were able to camp from Friday around noon to about 3am Monday morning BEFORE the 12 volt battery went dead and the alarm would go off. I then would have to go outside and hook up spare battery I carried with me. I know it's not good to run a battery all the way down like that...........

[M&A]

From WFCO's FAQs - "Deep-cycle batteries are recommended. They can be either of the Lead-Acid or AGM type." "Gel is not recommended."

Seems I remember a jumper on mine (at the storage lot right now so can't look) that changes the charge curve for AGM.

[01tundra]

Originally Posted by ttavasc

Recommended reading --> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/14...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Both my daughters are hooked up with newly minted engineers so this was the stocking stuffer last Christmas....

My wife has mastered the art of dealing with me by now and I've been at this for 25 yrs so I'm entrenched at this point

[bdreinv]

Yep that's what the manual reads,JAYCO blames it on the dealer since they do the install.Been to the dealer at least 7 times in the last 21 months for other things.Still do not have group 27 did get battery boxes no charge.Can you imagine the money dealers save on hundreds maybe thousands of group 24s they install.I guess not many owners notice the difference!

[NVGun40]

You should not have any problem lasting for two nights with the plan you have in place.

We do it all the time with our white hawk. In fact we dry camp or boondock all the time. Plus I like to hunt a lot. I have stretched two group 24 12vdc batteries wired in parallel for 7 days. Because we like to dry camp or boondock so much we did eventually change over from two 12s in parallel to two 6s in series, and that has given us the ability to go quite a bit longer.


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