Lithium Ion Battery Generator

[TommyAjax]

I bought a 12v Lithium Ion Battery battery pack that has 880w/70ah capacity and has a pure sine inverter built into it, and also has a 12v plug and USB plugs. I have attached a couple of photos.

The tech specs in the manual indicate:
USB Plugs - 5v, max 15w for two ports, 30w for four ports
Cigarette Port - 12v, 96w max
AC Inverter - 115V, 4.6a (500w continuous)

I bought it for it's portability (it only weighs 25 lbs), pure sine inverter and high amp hour capacity which will allow me to charge laptops/tablets/tools and tv when off grid. I am now wondering, could I use it as a secondary/emergency power source when off grid for the trailer (only lights, water pump, and possibly furnace) to supplement a low capacity lead acid battery (65 amp hour capacity). It also has two anderson ports for connecting to solar panels to recharge it.

My questions to those with more electrical knowledge than me:

1. Would I be able to plug my 30amp trailer power cord into this battery pack (with a 15amp adapter) and power my trailer? I know that it doesn't provide enough for the heavy draw items like Microwave and A/C, but could it run the LED house lights, water pump, and furnace?

2. Could it charge my trailer's house battery? My owners manual says the converter pulls 8amps which I understand to be ~100w which is well within the 500w continuous capacity of the battery pack inverter. If it can charge the house battery via the converter, then I know that I can run the house lights, water pump, and furnace from the trailer battery.

3. Could I connect it directly into the 12v system with a male-male 12v adapter since it has a socket, and my trailer has a couple of sockets in it? I would do it this way so that it wasn't inverting the power to 115v, then feeding into the trailer converter to be switched back to 12v to charge the house battery. I am thinking similar to the automotive battery boosters that you can plug into your cigarette lighter for a few minutes and then start your car if the battery was dead.

It seems like a cool little pack that cost less than an AGM battery and gives me a lot of flexibility for camping and non-camping activities - if I could run the trailer off of it if I had to, that would be a bonus.

[Brownie]

I'll be watching this thread, also, for advise from you more electrical-savvy members. I've been looking for a pure-sine inverter to power my CPAP machine (for sleep apnea) while Walmarting & Rest Stop napping, but am worried about it depleting my single house battery. Purchasing a new pair of true deep cells, plus battery boxes & cables, plus the inverter is a little out my budget right now. Your little battery pack may be a more versatile alternative.

TommyAjax - may I ask the name brand, price, and where you purchased it? Don't want to hijack your thread, but I'm really interested in your find.

[TommyAjax]

I got it through Walmart here in Canada - it was on clearance and is showing out of stock - came to about $330 CAD or about $250 USD - regular pricing would have put it at about $450 CAD or $350 USD.

The brand name is "Power It!" but I have never heard of it and couldn't find much info on it outside of the Walmart reviews so I was hesitant to get it, but it seems legit now that I have it - seems fairly well made, but I have only had it for a week. Basically charged it and put a few different sized lights and electronics on it to see if the meters changed turning the lights on and off, and everything seems to be working.

Again, my main purpose was to get it for charging electronics and maybe running the television if off grid, but trying to think of other ways that it could make my life easier.

http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/power-it.../6000192325762

[Bassdogs]

Wow!! Pricey!! Seems an extra reg 12v deep cycle and a 600 watt inverter would do what you want for a whole lot less.

Answer to your ? Yes you can plug your Rv into it with a 15amp adapter but I would only do it in an emergercy.

[TommyAjax]

Problem with the extra deep cycle and separate inverter is portability - remember that 70 amp hours in lithium is close to 60 amp hours of available power (80% draw) where a 100 amp hours of lead acid deep cycle is 50 amp hours of available power (50% draw). This battery pack weighs 12kg/25lbs - a deep cycle battery is 50+ lbs. And this is all in a nicely contained "consumer" package that I can just plug into an AC wall outlet to charge it up - don't have to wire it into the trailer or have a separate charger, or worry about having a separate inverter wired to the deep cycle (more cords to trip over). Plus Lithium batteries are supposed to have a longer life (more charging cycles) and don't have a charge memory, charge faster, no maintenance, and don't have to be recharged to "full" like lead acid.

To save on tongue weight (I only have a Ram 1500 and am near payload capacity with my trailer and the kids are growing), I am actually thinking about replacing the Group 24 battery with a Lithium drop in but the CADUSD exchange rate makes a 100 amp hour lithium battery about $1500 CAD/$1000 USD. For security reasons, I would move the battery location into the trailer. So for $300, I can see if the lithium battery in this little pack performs as advertised.

I will probably try and find some time in the next week or so to head out to the trailer (it is in storage about 30 mins away) to see if I can fire up the furnace using it as my shore power.

[Flapper]

Well....the limiting thing is it's continuous 120v rating, and that it can only deliver 4.6 amps. 500 watts is about 5 amps. (watts divided by volts = amps, or volts*amps = watts) So running it at max will give you a little less than 1 hr.

My CPAP pulls about 90w an hour, if just used for that, it will get you about 5 hours.
Your lights might work for several hours. Only a very short while for the pump and furnace. As far as tools - depends on what size the existing batteries are - some may be getting close to what's in the gadget.

Lithium's are noted for being able to dump a lot of power really quickly - so it could likely handle a load that demands 70 amps all at once. But the 880 watt tells one that it can't deliver that level very long! So they haven't really lied, it is "70ah", but all you get is one hour.....not like lead acid where you get it for 15-20 hours, depending on what rating system the manufacturer uses....

[TommyAjax]

Thanks Flapper. So my Jayco book indicates that the furnace runs at 12 amps and is 12 volt so would be about 150 watts per hour when running non-stop. Hopefully it isn't cold enough that the furnace is running non-stop so I am thinking ~ 100 watts per hour. If my house battery died in the middle of the night, I should be able to use this pack to get me through another 4-5 hours in a pinch.

[Bassdogs]

Until they get the cost down on lithium and solve the problem with them catching fire, its not something that will get close to my RV or home for that matter. Really this thing looks nice and has some nice features but still just a glorified and expensive jump box.

[Jagiven]

I have a gel cell unit simular to that one, cleary not quite as nice. I have never hooked it up to the tt. Mine also has a small air compressor, which I have only used for bicycle tires. Works great hold a charge for a long time. I use it often when tent camping, such as week long summer camp with the scouts. It will run a small 12v clip on fan all night for all week.

In a pinch, sure hook it up to the tt. Personally, do not use the inverter, it consumes to much power. Buy a 12v aux plug a fuse harness, determine the required fuse size, and place it ether at the battery location, disconnect tt battery. Or make a plug that will back feed into a 12v aux outlet. Again diconnect the tt battery. I bet you can make it 24 to 48 hours using it.

[TommyAjax]

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

Until they get the cost down on lithium and solve the problem with them catching fire, its not something that will get close to my RV or home for that matter. Really this thing looks nice and has some nice features but still just a glorified and expensive jump box.

Isn't that kind of like saying "I'm not going to drink water because it has hydrogen in it?". Cell phone and laptop batteries are lithium based now as well. Yes, there were several sensational reports about Boeing and Sony having issues, but shark attacks get the same type of coverage and they don't actually happen that often.

From The Economist:
"In 2006 millions of lithium-ion battery packs made by Sony were replaced after several hundred overheated and a few caught fire. These batteries were used in laptop computers produced by a number of manufactures. Since then, production processes have improved and fires remain relatively rare. As Elon Musk, Tesla’s founder, has pointed out that with some 30,000 Tesla cars now on the road, fires have affected one in 10,000 vehicles—which sounds bad, but the equivalent statistic for petrol-powered cars is one in 1,300. And it is not just lithium batteries that cause fires. Old-fashioned lead-acid batteries can explode too."

But to each their own...

[TommyAjax]

Originally Posted by Jagiven

I have a gel cell unit simular to that one, cleary not quite as nice. I have never hooked it up to the tt. Mine also has a small air compressor, which I have only used for bicycle tires. Works great hold a charge for a long time. I use it often when tent camping, such as week long summer camp with the scouts. It will run a small 12v clip on fan all night for all week.

In a pinch, sure hook it up to the tt. Personally, do not use the inverter, it consumes to much power. Buy a 12v aux plug a fuse harness, determine the required fuse size, and place it ether at the battery location, disconnect tt battery. Or make a plug that will back feed into a 12v aux outlet. Again diconnect the tt battery. I bet you can make it 24 to 48 hours using it.

Do you mean something like this to backfeed into the 12v system?

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by TommyAjax

Isn't that kind of like saying "I'm not going to drink water because it has hydrogen in it?". Cell phone and laptop batteries are lithium based now as well. Yes, there were several sensational reports about Boeing and Sony having issues, but shark attacks get the same type of coverage and they don't actually happen that often.

But to each their own...

Yup!! To each their own. My money stays in my wallet and I'll continue using my conventional jumpbox from tractor supply [w/ everything except the inverter and USB port] and cost $75. Had it for 8 years now and still holding charge and running my 12v stuff like small compressor, start tow veh, air up low tire etc. I have a 600w pure Wave inverter in the TT and the charging ports available from other sources. At the end of the day L Ion batteries are overpriced and lack sufficient advantage to overcome the cost and risk [how ever minimal it might be]. My twin 6v battery pack on the TT, H 2000i, the 2 batteries on my durimax, and my jumpbox are all I need.

[Subaru297]

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

Yup!! To each their own. My money stays in my wallet and I'll continue using my conventional jumpbox from tractor supply [w/ everything except the inverter and USB port] and cost $75. Had it for 8 years now and still holding charge and running my 12v stuff like small compressor, start tow veh, air up low tire etc. I have a 600w pure Wave inverter in the TT and the charging ports available from other sources. At the end of the day L Ion batteries are overpriced and lack sufficient advantage to overcome the cost and risk [how ever minimal it might be]. My twin 6v battery pack on the TT, H 2000i, the 2 batteries on my durimax, and my jumpbox are all I need.

I hear the fuel your tow vehicle and your generator use can be flammable as well. Better get rid of them too. Sorry couldn't resist...
I do agree with you that the cost is still prohibitive for the AH capacities that are needed for camping.

Don't try to charge your trailer battery with the portable unit. It will not be very efficient and you will get more use from the available power to use it directly. Your best bet is to disconnect your trailer battery and feed into one of the 12v ports.

The 60Ah available is just as much as any group 27 12v battery anyway and should last a night or two running the furnace and water pump.

[TommyAjax]

Finally had a chance to get it out to the trailer and plugged it in using the 15a adapter and had the 12v battery connected. The read-out on the battery pack indicated no draw after about 45 minutes with the furnace running. I suspect that the trailer/converter needs a bit more "ooomph" than the 500w that the inverter on battery pack puts out through a single plug. It was worth a shot...thanks for all of the insight and feedback.

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by Subaru297

I hear the fuel your tow vehicle and your generator use can be flammable as well. Better get rid of them too. Sorry couldn't resist...
I do agree with you that the cost is still prohibitive for the AH capacities that are needed for camping.

Don't try to charge your trailer battery with the portable unit. It will not be very efficient and you will get more use from the available power to use it directly. Your best bet is to disconnect your trailer battery and feed into one of the 12v ports.

The 60Ah available is just as much as any group 27 12v battery anyway and should last a night or two running the furnace and water pump.

Nice shot, but the tow vehicles that have a record bursting into flames don't sit in my garage or hooked to my TT. Not sure I've seen any Honda 2000's burning down anything either. Yet L-ion powered devices continue to cause fires. BUT I have no doubt the technology will be improved and the $$ will come down going forward. L-ion for RV 12v power source isn't there yet.

My conventional twin 6volts with 600W pure sign inverter and H2000 are proving to be a great dry camping set up as we travel thru Texas. The tractor supply jump box is in the truck box primarily to be used to power up the small air compressor for an emergency winterize or to air up a low tire.

[BC Boondocker]

TommyAjax

How is this unit working out for you? I bought the same one one clearance from wall mart this year in BC. For emergency black outs and when camping.

Has a few problems, battery drain from what I understand. (Some people suggest a cut off switch be installed, and to wire in fuses at the same time.)

Would love to know how its held up and if it was useful to you when camping.

[cariboocreek]

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

Nice shot, but the tow vehicles that have a record bursting into flames don't sit in my garage or hooked to my TT. Not sure I've seen any Honda 2000's burning down anything either. Yet L-ion powered devices continue to cause fires. BUT I have no doubt the technology will be improved and the $$ will come down going forward. L-ion for RV 12v power source isn't there yet.

My conventional twin 6volts with 600W pure sign inverter and H2000 are proving to be a great dry camping set up as we travel thru Texas. The tractor supply jump box is in the truck box primarily to be used to power up the small air compressor for an emergency winterize or to air up a low tire.

Couldn't resist....

[Mustang65]

Originally Posted by TommyAjax

I bought a 12v Lithium Ion Battery battery pack that has 880w/70ah capacity and has a pure sine inverter built into it, and also has a 12v plug and USB plugs. I have attached a couple of photos.

The tech specs in the manual indicate:
USB Plugs - 5v, max 15w for two ports, 30w for four ports
Cigarette Port - 12v, 96w max
AC Inverter - 115V, 4.6a (500w continuous)

My questions to those with more electrical knowledge than me:

1. Would I be able to plug my 30amp trailer power cord into this battery pack (with a 15amp adapter) and power my trailer? I know that it doesn't provide enough for the heavy draw items like Microwave and A/C, but could it run the LED house lights, water pump, and furnace?

I know you were probably waiting for my 2 cents worth.

(#1) You could, but I do not think you will be very happy with your results. First off you would need to rewire your TT's battery charge controller, because it will instantly start to use the LiFe04 power to charge your TT,s battery. Not a very good way to charge your TT batteries. You are converting 12VDC power to 120VAC power and converting back to 12VDC power to charge your battery. A good amount of loss doing this way, oh and you also have the drain of the radio, microwave clock/circuit, CO/LP detector, fridge. You could turn off all your AC 120VAC breakers to eliminate some of the AC drain. One of the reviews said it would take 15 hours to recharge the battery... I bet it would run out of power first

2. Could it charge my trailer's house battery? My owners manual says the converter pulls 8amps which I understand to be ~100w which is well within the 500w continuous capacity of the battery pack inverter. If it can charge the house battery via the converter, then I know that I can run the house lights, water pump, and furnace from the trailer battery.
See #1 for reasons this is not a good idea


3. Could I connect it directly into the 12v system with a male-male 12v adapter since it has a socket, and my trailer has a couple of sockets in it? I would do it this way so that it wasn't inverting the power to 115v, then feeding into the trailer converter to be switched back to 12v to charge the house battery. I am thinking similar to the automotive battery boosters that you can plug into your cigarette lighter for a few minutes and then start your car if the battery was dead.

You are getting close to a solution. Again see #1... but here is an alternative for you. install a RV/Marine disconnect/selector switch that allows for 2 batteries to be independent of each other. Hook up one side to the TT's battery and the other to the Power it unit's 12VDC output. Granted, using the 12VDC accessory plug on the unit you will max out at 10Amps, as the plugs usually have a 10 amp fuse enclosed. This would be a much better use of your 73Ah that the unit is rated at.... but you will still be restricted by the 50% rule if you want to get the most of your units battery life.. SEE BELOW

It seems like a cool little pack that cost less than an AGM battery and gives me a lot of flexibility for camping and non-camping activities - if I could run the trailer off of it if I had to, that would be a bonus.

I just looked as at some of the reviews and based on the ones I read you would have been better off going with 6 volt batteries T-105 (220Ah) batteries.

Your system:
Power it (73Ah) - $488 or $6.68 per Ah

Batteries:
(4) Trojan T105 batteries (450Ah) = $532 or $1.18 per Ah


Oh wait I forgot the life cycles part of the post... The battery temperature plays an important part of its LIFE, along with the 50% battery rule. See the pictures below.

Does Walmart have a return policy on these... if you can, return it and purchase 4 T105's... you will be much happier

How about SOLAR???? See below all in the same price range (searching Renogy may even make the price more inviting.

Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[BC Boondocker]

Mustang65

Thank you for the info... and the recomendations. Sadly it is not applicable to my situation at this time

This is a self contained unit, that has applications outside of RVing. My buying this unit preceded my even thinking I would buy a RV this year...

My future plans include expanding my Battery Bank from 1 (that came with my new RV) to adding 4 more Deep cycle Batteries. Again thank you for suggesting the batteries you did, i'm seriously concidering them.

And adding solar panels to my unit (I actually already have them they were on sale 90Watts x 3 should give me more than enough to keep up with my power consumption but I have not mounted them yet)

However I find myself in the unique situation of having something I had already for small amounts of power while tenting or in a cabin. Just in case my Battery Drain is too much for (the one battery I currently have) It has LED lighting, plug ins for anything I need to run for the night so I can get things sorted the next day.

I'd also like to point out the difference between the USD and CAD... I looked up that exact battery in canada and came up with a price tag as follows....

(4) Batteries at 450ah for 840$ (CAD) dont forget the tax (117$ CAD) and core fees (20x4=80$ CAD) all said and done thats 1037$ when its all done.... working out to 2.3$ to 1ah

And My Power It cost me 225 which works out to 3$ to 1ah....

So.... realistically..... 225$ is a much easier investment than the 519$ price tag that two of those batteries would have cost me (remembering I still needed to buy a inverter, over charge protector, all the parts to connect my various devices and testing voltage and a Battery charger even if it was electric) at the time of my purchase.

Thankfully my RV has most of those components in it, but I didnt have it when I was buying the Battery Generator earlier this year.

If you have further recomendations, mostly on a display panel I can wire into my RV for observing the power consumption of my battery bank. I'm completely open to any suggestions in that regard.


TommyAjax

I'm still interested in any experience you have had with this unit. :-)


Cariboocreek

I have to jump on the band wagon here and point out.... Lithium naturally occurs in the human brain... so.... probably the cause of spontaneous human combustion for centuries...