My LiFePO4 Solar Project

[Mustang65]

I posted this on a different thread this morning. http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...ery-43976.html

As mentioned there is a GREAT SALES PITCH that goes with LiFePo4 battery systems. Granted, they are a lot lighter, but there is some information that seems to be left out of a lot of the sales pitches. Like, you can get 2000 to 5000 cycles out of a LiFePo4 battery system... Ahhhh but I for got to mention that is ONLY under a controlled environment. RV's seem to lack those IDEAL conditions. The average temperature of my storage compartment is between 80 and 85 degrees. If you look at the below chart, that pretty much puts me in the same life cycle range of my flooded batteries. Battery temperature dictates the results of all other tests, unless of course you abuse them.

Some charts indicate at 50% DOD you could get 5000 cycles.... probably could if the battery is constantly kept at its ideal temperature. Not going to happen in an RV.

The BMS is the critical part of the charging system.. of course you have the entry level versions and the top of the line models. I would venture to say that they probably used the top of the line BMS with microcontrollers between each cell to accomplish those numbers, probably not going to happen on the entry level BMS.

As in flooded batteries, AGE plays an important part in the batteries output. In flooded batteries the lead plates get thinner over time causing a drop in Ah. The battery off the shelf had 85Ah, now after 4+ years it is putting out less than 40Ah, it still looks like brand new, charges great, and stays at 12.8 VDC for months while sitting, but put a load on it and you can watch the battery discharging on the meter..

So, I personally do not think that a LiFePo4 system will do anything for my RVing life style other than cost me an arm and a leg

So, what is the average temperature in your storage compartment where the batteries will be stored? It will affect your charging and discharging results.

One last point... LiFePo4 marketing is no different than SOLAR panel marketing. In SOLAR they say here is a 100 Watt panel and package it with a PWM SOLAR charge controller. Did they happen to mention that the PWM controller only can use about 75 Watts of the 100 Watt panel output. It is all in the sales pitch.

Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[dewey02]

I appreciate people posting their experience with new technologies here. That's the way that we all learn. I've never been an early adopter. Just getting into solar now after having camped for many years. I'm hoping my 4 year old Sam's Club 6 volts GC's continue to hold out for a few more years until I need to replace them with something better.

The new technology seems to have many advantages, and prices will no doubt continue to fall. So hopefully in the future, it will be far more available to the poorer among us. Given the number of new trailers that are sold each year, I think boondocking is going to become the only option for getting away from the hoards, the noise, and the drunks in developed campgrounds. So greater and lighter battery efficiency will be a very good thing.

[3hounds]

So if you don't mind, how much of an investment $$, would a system like that be??

[SmackIt]

$899 X 2 = $1798..... minus the 10% discount and it's $1618 for 200 amp hours of batteries. Add the 3000 wat inverter, solar controller, 300 watts of solar panels and I'm $5000.00 into this. That's a lot of money. I'm sure you can do it for less, but it's a new trailer and I'm planning on keeping it for 10 years.

We're fortunate that the majority of our camping is at higher elevations in the Sierras. It's pretty rare for the inside of our camper to go over 85° F. Hopefully that will help extend the life of the LiFePO4 investment.

[Mustang65]

Please keep us up to date with your system and its performance. Pro's and Cons's.

There are a lot of us that are interested in this newer technology and how it stands up to RVing. I can already guarantee that when and if I get the $$$$.$$ together to purchase the LiFePo4 type system, a new technology will be ready for testing in RV's (the Salt Water battery??). Just like the old computer days, 8088, 8086, 286, 386, 486...., maybe not as frequent as the PC.

Enjoy the system

Don

[Cranetech]

Wow... we recently purchased a 2007 jayco and solar panels are on my mind. Currently we only have a single 12v battery. This of course concerns me. The battery is brand new so I am considering buying a second 12v battery for now and once I kill them off upgrading to 6v batteries. I also am considering solar power. I don't want to have a noisy generator running on longer trips. I have found a 100w system on amazon that is upgradeable to 400w . My thought was to buy the 100w system and slowly upgrade as the pocket book allows. But looking at this I may want to start with the 200w system. We are new to the full size trailer as we have always had a tent trailer and have been able to drag out the battery life for a week or so with conservative use of heat and lights. This thing I am afraid will be a different story as there seems to be a lot of parasitic loads. Not sure that the microwave and air conditioning are going to be things that we will use but now that we have them only time will tell. Any thoughts? Thanks

[SmackIt]

Originally Posted by Cranetech

Wow... we recently purchased a 2007 jayco and solar panels are on my mind. Currently we only have a single 12v battery. This of course concerns me. The battery is brand new so I am considering buying a second 12v battery for now and once I kill them off upgrading to 6v batteries. I also am considering solar power. I don't want to have a noisy generator running on longer trips. I have found a 100w system on amazon that is upgradeable to 400w . My thought was to buy the 100w system and slowly upgrade as the pocket book allows. But looking at this I may want to start with the 200w system. We are new to the full size trailer as we have always had a tent trailer and have been able to drag out the battery life for a week or so with conservative use of heat and lights. This thing I am afraid will be a different story as there seems to be a lot of parasitic loads. Not sure that the microwave and air conditioning are going to be things that we will use but now that we have them only time will tell. Any thoughts? Thanks

I think 75-100 Amp Hours of battery power with a small solar panel is all anyone needs to run lights (replace stock with LED's), the water pump, and other 12 volt items. When you turn on the AC side of the camper and start running things like the Microwave, Air Con, TV's etc. it's time to look at larger batteries and larger solar systems. Think long term and invest in the right equipment, it's better than starting all over when you realize you got the wrong solar controller or wrong inverter because you tried to save a few bucks.

[Cranetech]

Yes thanks for the input. Thats the reason i was considering the expandable kit from renogy. I have already replaced all the lights with led. Need to get it out for a few weekends and see how it all works out for now. Looks like spring may have finally arrived here.

[SmackIt]

Added a Victron BMV-700 Battery Monitor. More data than you'll ever need, even has a bluetooth connection to their smartphone app. It's nice to put some numbers on the various electrical goodies we using during our camping trips.









Cheers!

[Subaru297]

Nice addition. I think a battery monitor is a required addition for any trailer. Especially one running solar and that has some money in batteries.

Are you pulling 108 Amps in that photo? AC running?

[bdreinv]

In our 2006 Toy Hauler we used a 45 watt Harbor Freight all in one set up.Worked great gave us some time to get the feel of how Solar worked.In our 16 Eagle 321 RSTS went with one 275 watt panel MPPT controller.And kept our two 12 volt deep cell batteries.The controller is the secret.Love the system living in Phoenix the day time temp today is 111. Panel still keeps the batteries at a 12.6 charge.Heat is brutal on batteries! And we dry camp up in northern Arizona in the mountains. Happy Trails

[SmackIt]

Originally Posted by Subaru297

Nice addition. I think a battery monitor is a required addition for any trailer. Especially one running solar and that has some money in batteries.

Are you pulling 108 Amps in that photo? AC running?

I really like the data you get from the Victron, a plain voltage meter just doesn't give you the insight on battery level and amps being drawn.

That reading of -108 was with the water heater on electric drawing amps. I had no idea it pulled so many amps until I got the monitor. Ran the AC shortly after and that went up to about 145-150.

[Subaru297]

Very cool. Thanks for reporting on the LiFePo4 setup!

[Semix-Hex]

An older thread but I really like your setup! Neat and clean.

[IamSpartacus]

Hey OP? Any updates? I'm very interested in your setup.

[SmackIt]

Originally Posted by IamSpartacus

Hey OP? Any updates? I'm very interested in your setup.

Approaching 4 years and everything performs really well. I've made a couple changes.




I added 1 more battery and switched to Victron components.

[Snow Dog]

It looks like you have both the older victron digital multi-control and the newer victron Color control. Do they perform separate functions? I thought that usually you want one or the other (but not both?). Can you tell us about them.... thanks!

[SmackIt]

Originally Posted by Snow Dog

It looks like you have both the older victron digital multi-control and the newer victron Color control. Do they perform separate functions? I thought that usually you want one or the other (but not both?). Can you tell us about them.... thanks!

There's some overlap in features for the 3 Victron devices I have installed. The Color Control can do almost everything, but I wanted the Digital Multi Control for 2 very simple reasons.

#1 Wife Friendly - Hit the toggle switch on the Digital Multi Control for ON or OFF. Easy as can be. The Color Control puts you through a menu hunt to power on and off. It can do it, but it's not as user friendly.

#2 The Digital Multi Control has a very convenient current limit knob. This is handy when you want to limit the charging current while running the Air Con or other heavy AC current load. I use this if I'm running off our Honda Generator. On the flip side, I can also whack the LiFePO4 batteries with 100 Amps of quick charge instead of being the jerk in the campground running a generator everyday for 4 hours. That little current limit knob is very handy for controlling the load on your generator.

I think Victron makes very high quality equipment. I hope their next gen products will roll a lot more connectivity features into their systems to reduce the number of trinkets you need to install.

My wish list for the Victron Color Control GX.

#1 Integrate Blue Tooth and WiFi. No dongles or add ons, it's 2020 and the components cost practically nothing.

#2 Integrate the shunt and voltage monitoring of the BMV-700 Battery Monitor.

#3 Put the Digital Multi Control ON/OFF toggle switch on the face of the Color Control.

#4 Put the Digital Multi Control current limit knob on the front of the Color Control.

[jfg]

Can the stock converter charge the LiFePO4 batteries when you are connected to shore power or did you need to make changes?

It’s a nice setup for sure!

[SmackIt]

Originally Posted by jfg

Can the stock converter charge the LiFePO4 batteries when you are connected to shore power or did you need to make changes?

It’s a nice setup for sure!

The shore power line goes directly into the Victron inverter/charger. The Battleborn LiFePO4 batteries can be charged from just about anything with 12volts. Some chargers are going to work better or faster if they have a setting for LiFePO4, but older charges will still charge the batteries.