50amp Y adapter questions

Edd505 · 06-16-2015, 04:23 PM

Last week I was at a state park with 30amp service. I had one A/C running and the breaker would trip if the Microwave was used for any length of time. Another camper saw me resetting the breaker and told me about an adapter, Y harness. He said you plug it into the standard 30amp and the second leg has a 20amp plug that gets plugged into the 15/20amp in most pedestals. By using this setup you get either 45 or 50amp depending on the smaller outlets amps. It sounds OK 30 plus 20 equals 50.

I tried a net search and found Amazon has one with one review that said it did not work due to the ground on the 15/20amp plug. The review said it tripped the breaker. If the 15/20amp grounds the problem, could it be eliminated so the ground wouldn't effect the adapter? I'm hoping someone here has used one or someone with electrical knowledge can explain why it would or wouldn't work.

Has anyone seen or used a setup like this?
Would this work to up the available amps to the TT?

This might be a must have if it works .................

tnchuck100 · 06-16-2015, 05:42 PM

It may work IF the 20 amp outlet is not on the same leg as the 30 amp outlet.

wags999 · 06-16-2015, 05:44 PM

This hook up will still only give you 1/2 of the power your 50 amp connection will . To explain, a 30 amp hook up, provides 30 amps of power at 120 volts. You 50 amp connection will give you two 50 amp at 120 volts legs, or, 100 amps at 120 volts. When you connect your Y connection, the 30 amp side will provide power to most of your 120 volt appliances, outlets etc in your RV.

Now to get to your question. If the 30 amp plug and the 20 amp plug are on two separate legs then yes you will get 50 amps at 120 volts, or 1/2 of your normal plug amperage. If these two plugs are hooked on a common ground, and on the same leg then it will not work. That's the readers digest version. The newer the campground, the more likely it will be wired correctly and you will have no issues...other than you still only have half your regular power available.

Good luck !

Edd505 · 06-16-2015, 06:08 PM

wags999:

If I understand right, I do gain amps but not get the 100amps from a regular 50amp connection. The adapter would add the 20amps from the 15/20 pigtail to the 30amps from the pedestal, a 20amp gain that SHOULD allow more "things" to be run than I could with the 30amp only connection.

tnchuck100: If they are on the same leg? no harm I just don't get the amp boost? I assume there is some kinds of state code on how the wiring has to be done. any idea how the pedestals are wired?

**norty1** · 06-16-2015, 06:23 PM

I have one and use it when I can. Many SP's on Ga have that setup , 2 30a feeds and with the adapter it is better than 1- 30a. Don't know why they do it that way.
It will not work if the breaker is a GFCI.

wags999 · 06-16-2015, 06:32 PM

Yes. Lets use your home as an illustration. You have, say 100 amp service. What that is, is, two 100 amp, 120 volt lines and a neutral coming into your house. You can have the one neutral because the two 120 volt lines are phased, meaning, because this is alternating current the power flows in one line and out the neutral, when you phase them each of the live lines are alternating the current (60 cycles per second). The power coming in and going out are balanced and the neutral is balanced. When both outlets are wired on the same phase, then you will get power flowing back into the neutral, popping the breaker. So if the pedestal is wired with the outlets each on a separate leg, then the neutral wire will carry no voltage and hence no popping of the breaker. It all depends on how the pedestal is wired. Older campgrounds, were not typically wired for 50 amp RV's as the RV's were smaller and used much less power. So it was not an issue to wire the outlets to the same leg or phase of power.. I could get more complicated and say the typically every other site will be on the same "main line" coming from the main electrical panel of the campground. Now that I have confused everyone

Bottom line, if newer yes you will have 50 amp of power, at 120 volts...which is 1/2 what your typical 50 Amp plug. You still will have to watch what you use, you may or may not be able to use two AC at the same time, depending on size of the unit. Your MW may still "blow" the breaker... You probably wont be able to use a hair dryer, or coffee maker or toaster while your AC and other background items are running... Hope this helps some.

wags999 · 06-16-2015, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norty1

I have one and use it when I can. Many SP's on Ga have that setup , 2 30a feeds and with the adapter it is better than 1- 30a. Don't know why they do it that way.
It will not work if the breaker is a GFCI.

Because you can run three #10 wires and get two 30 amp services. With 50 Amp you need (depending on length of run) two #6 and either a # or maybe an #8 neutral...cost is much greater to run one 50 amp service than two 30 amp plugs. It also provides less power to the RV.

GFCI will detect any minute voltage "leak" and shut off.. they are a pain at campgrounds, in part because RV's are not wired the same as a home....

Why it won't work with a GFCI is most likely because the plugs are not "in phase". Sometimes even using the same 120 line to supply power to both plugs...with a 50 or 60 amp breaker in the main electrical panel.

Edd505 · 06-16-2015, 06:54 PM

Sounds like it maybe worth buying one. I know I can't run both A/C's with the 30 and one 30 almost runs the A/C & microwave as long as the nuke times under a couple minutes. The adapter might be just enough.
Norty1 uses a double 30 amp and I have seen that setup in the marina's on large boats. I have not seen a CG setup with two 30's here on the west coast. If I start seeing them regular it'll be one more adapter for the collection ..............

Thanks waggs999

Grumpy · 06-16-2015, 07:38 PM

Will not work if the 20 amp is a GFI. Every 30/20 to 50 adapter lists the same disclaimer.

**norty1** · 06-16-2015, 08:04 PM

I will add that the 2 feeds must be of different phase and most camper pedestals are not that way except in Ga state parks. That is the only place I have been able to use mine and I have tried it in many locations with a 30 and a 20. None worked.

BTW, mine is home made.

Filthy-Beast · 06-16-2015, 09:25 PM

Just an FYI, my 15k AC, microwave, sat receiver and TV all running at the same time were pulling 40 amps with voltage at 113 as reported by a Progressive EMS.

**norty1** · 06-17-2015, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wags999

Because you can run three #10 wires and get two 30 amp services. With 50 Amp you need (depending on length of run) two #6 and either a # or maybe an #8 neutral...cost is much greater to run one 50 amp service than two 30 amp plugs. It also provides less power to the RV.

GFCI will detect any minute voltage "leak" and shut off.. they are a pain at campgrounds, in part because RV's are not wired the same as a home....

Why it won't work with a GFCI is most likely because the plugs are not "in phase". Sometimes even using the same 120 line to supply power to both plugs...with a 50 or 60 amp breaker in the main electrical panel.

I think you have hit on the main reason. Cost drives many decisions.

mike837go · 06-17-2015, 06:04 AM

"Why it won't work with a GFCI is most likely because the plugs are not "in phase". "

Actually, it is because the GFCI outlet watches 100% of the power flowing out on the hot side and the amount of power flowing back on the neutral leg.

If they are different by more than 50mA (.05 of an amp) the GFCI shuts down to protect people from power going someplace other than where it is supposed to go.

Therefore, as soon as you draw any power from the 15A plug, the 30A GFCI notices the imbalance and does what it was designed to do.

RoyBraddy · 06-17-2015, 06:53 AM

I just run another 20AMP Extension cord out to the 20AMP Pedestal service to run some of the high amps items so the 30AMP line isn't so loaded down.

This is how we power up the oil-filled portable heaters when it gets cool at night. Everything outside is always plugged into the camp ground 20AMP Service.

The Y CABLES always bothered me as you are holding two cables with male connectors. Could be dangerous depending where you plug them in. One leg might power up the other open male connector before you get it plugged in etc...

Here is a typical camp ground pedestal wiring. The 30A and the 20A side usually come from the same phase leg just fed with different size circuit breakers..

Roy Ken

mike837go · 06-17-2015, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyBraddy

I just run another 20AMP Extension cord out to the 20AMP Pedestal service to run some of the high amps items so the 30AMP line isn't so loaded down.
The Y CABLES always bothered me as you are holding two cables with male connectors. Could be dangerous depending where you plug them in. One leg might power up the other open male connector before you get it plugged in etc...
...snip...
Roy Ken

I Totally agree with you! Exposed charged parts are a basic no-no.

AC "does not play well with others" the way you can parallel DC batteries, chargers, converters, solar chargers, etc.

I've seen 30A + 15A -> 50A so you might get unbalanced 220V out of a standard pedestal.

But connecting the output of 2 breakers so you can get more amps at 120V? That's scary!

wags999 · 06-17-2015, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike837go

I Totally agree with you! Exposed charged parts are a basic no-no.

AC "does not play well with others" the way you can parallel DC batteries, chargers, converters, solar chargers, etc.

I've seen 30A + 15A -> 50A so you might get unbalanced 220V out of a standard pedestal.

But connecting the output of 2 breakers so you can get more amps at 120V? That's scary!

Nothing scary about this at all, in fact it is exactly what your 50 amp service is doing. Two separate 120 lines, each feeding up to 50 amps of power. The Y adapter just separates and connects each leg of your service to two separate plugs rather than one. One side is typically 30 amp service, which, will feed the main AC and outlets, and the 12 volt system. The other side of the Y feeds the second AC and possibly some additional outlets. When wired correctly each side works independently and with no issues, no matter how many amps each side pulls. When wired with a common neutral and or not phased properly, is when you will get the GFCI popping. I have never seen an RV pedestal 30 or 50 plug have a GFCI controlling it.. in newer camps it may happen I just have not seen it.
Most campgrounds are also daisy wired...or every other campsite is on the same main line. (two sites). Most will have a 50 or 60 amp breaker supplying two 30 amp breakers/plugs. Same with 50 amp and 20 amp plugs. Each pedestal does not get wired directly back to the main panel of the campground. This works well and cuts costs and is in code.

If at all possible you want to get the service your rig calls for whenever possible. The Y adapter, dog bone or any other "adapter" will not support your complete RV system. Yes they will work some of the systems, but you will not get the full use/enjoyment from your limited electrical feed.

Yes you can limit your electrical use, ie one AC at a time, limited MW, toaster, coffee pot, water heater on elec, etc. And yes running a second extension cord will bypass your panel in your RV and hence, eliminate the potential issues. This works well if it is just a space heater your interested in powering up. When you use an adapter you will not be supplying power to all systems in your RV. Typically only one AC for instance will get power, the other will be "dead".

I know it is difficult to get 50 amp sites in many places. The RV's are getting bigger, longer and drawing more power and campgrounds can not keep up with the changes. Most campgrounds are decades old and costs are prohibited (if even available) to upgrade. A mature campground with trees, drives, water, sewer etc are very difficult to dig and lay new electrical systems.. this is not going to change in the short term.
So, we as RV'ers may have to adapt our electrical usage to what is available, especially in more remote areas.

Enjoy and spend more time outside and less inside, you won't miss the extra power

**norty1** · 06-18-2015, 04:44 AM

We use what is available and are prepared to safely take advantage of what we get at a campground. We can be just as happy and comfortable with a 15a input or a full 50a setup.

Or nothing, of course I would be camping alone! LOL

mike837go · 06-18-2015, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wags999

Nothing scary about this at all, in fact it is exactly what your 50 amp service is doing. Two separate 120 lines, each feeding up to 50 amps of power. ...snip...

Enjoy and spend more time outside and less inside, you won't miss the extra power

I totally agree with your closing statement. Personally, I boondock. With a 2kw or smaller genset just to top-up the battery every day or so.

What I mentioned as "scary" is taking the feeds from two 120VAC breakers on the same side of the phase and tying them together to get the combined amps of the two breakers.

When we use a double breaker to supply 240VAC we are getting both sides of the phase to the maximum amps on the breaker.

Trying to "cheat" the system by grabbing one side of the phase from this box and the other side of the phase from another is looking for trouble.

Again, my sentiments are with you. Why does any family need more than 3,600 watts (30A @ 120V) to camp?

As far as I am concerned, campgrounds should be supplying only 20A to each pedestal. The pedestal then has one 30A 120V and one 15A 120V sockets. The campers then have to live on 2,400 watts or supply their own genset (with time of day an noise level restrictions).

Plowtoy · 06-18-2015, 08:09 AM

Not trying to go off topic, but I recently bought a "lot" of used rv items from a guy at work. One of the items is a 50A to 30A adaptor. Am I going to run into problems with the camper by using it? Or will the extra amprage be a good thing while running many items at once? Ive not had power issues with this camper (being a 30A plug) but do hear differances in speed of the AC when running the microwave and electric water heater while plugged into a 30A outlet.

tnchuck100 · 06-18-2015, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plowtoy

Not trying to go off topic, but I recently bought a "lot" of used rv items from a guy at work. One of the items is a 50A to 30A adaptor. Am I going to run into problems with the camper by using it? Or will the extra amprage be a good thing while running many items at once? Ive not had power issues with this camper (being a 30A plug) but do hear differances in speed of the AC when running the microwave and electric water heater while plugged into a 30A outlet.

There is no problem using the adapter. Sometimes it may be better to use it than use a worn, poor connection 30 amp receptacle.

You will not be able to use more amps. You are still limited by the 30 amp main breaker in your camper.

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