Another Toilet Question

[t2daniel]

I have an issue with bad Black tank odors in the trailer. They seemed to start after the first time the toilet backed up. In my trailer the toilet does not empty directly into the tank but there is a pipe that goes sideways and then empties into the tank. When the girls don't use enough water, the TP can create a dam in the pipe and after building for a while it can plug and back up to the bottom of the toilet.

I have read a bunch of the posts on Toilet problems on this and other forums.

This is what I have done:

- Checked the toilet for cracks - None
- Checked the base of the toilet for leaks - None
- Checked the seal at the base of the toilet looking in where front foot flush is. - Looks good as new.
- checked all the other sinks/shower for odor - None
- Cleaned the toilet
- dumped and flushed the black tank until all water is crystal clear.
- Added a bunch of Rid-ex to the tank and filled with water and letting sit all night.
- Doing the same with the grey tanks just to make sure

I can only smell odor at the back of the toilet and and around the base. There has never been any Black tank water dripping from under the trailer (fully enclosed under belly on this White Hawk.

Only thing I can think of is plugged vent? Seems to smell even when tank is empty so if a vent issue either vent is plugged or pipe has fallen into the tank.

Any thoughts on how to check the vent? Thinking of going to harbor freight to get a cheap mirror on an extendable pole to look down past the bend....but since I can't get the mirror into the tank, I don't think I will see much. Mabe a flexible wire to go into the vent? The vent cap on the roof is sealed on so not easy to check...I guess I cout drill a small hole and stick in a wire and then just put some sealant on top.

Any ideas or help would be great... Getting ready for a trip and the trailer really stinks.

Thanks

Tim

[abarkl]

Recent tank smells we've had only while underway are from the grey and not black. Easy enough to cover all inlets and eliminate the smell.

What about running a tank flush wand from the toilet down and/or from the drain up? A blocked vent does cause many owners a problem, and many swear by the GEO method of cleaning.

Our motorhome also has a black tank check valve which can fail and it's accessible under the bathroom sink. The grey tank valve is actually mounted behind the furnace access panel under the fridge.

[troutslayer]

If you use a pumper service to clean out the black tank, it would dislodge any clog in the vent pipe (since air is reversed through the vent pipe into the pumper truck). However, if the vent pipe has fallen into the tank (very unlikely), using a pumper truck could colapse the tank. You could have someone at the ready to step on the flush peddle a couple seconds after the pumper starts to pump out the tank.

[t2daniel]

Originally Posted by abarkl

What about running a tank flush wand from the toilet down and/or from the drain up? A blocked vent does cause many owners a problem, and many swear by the GEO method of cleaning.
.

Thanks for the reply Abarkl

It is really hard to get a wand in from the top since there is a sideways waste pipe under the toilet. I have a black tank flush and used till everything ran clear. Even shut the valve 2 or 3 times to partially fill the tank and flush again. I'm pretty confident the black tank is clean, but that is why I put in a lot of Rid-x and will let sit overnight.

I hope it is as simple as a grey tank issue. Hopefully siting overnight with RV Digest-it in the tanks will help clean those out too.

I'm going to try and peel back the underbelly a little to get a peak as soon as it stops raining.

[t2daniel]

Originally Posted by troutslayer

If you use a pumper service to clean out the black tank, it would dislodge any clog in the vent pipe (since air is reversed through the vent pipe into the pumper truck).

Interesting idea....not going to be anywhere that has a pumper truck, but now trying to think of a way to do the same thing without a pumper!

Would the tank empty easily if the vent was plugged? It seems to drain quicky even when full, so now that I think of it, the waste coming out a full tank should pull a vacuum in the tank if the vent was plugged and then the waste would slow down. I'll check that tomorrow when I dump the black tank.

Thanks for the idea

[ctbailey]

I'm reminded of a recent operation the town did. They were checking the sewer system for cracks and infiltration. They were checking with a smoke generator. They purposefully plugged the gravity sewer collection system, and then mounted and sealed a gas engine over a manhole. The gas engine exhaust was mixed with additional smoke agents.

Almost immediately, all the houses on my street were showing smoke coming out of the plumbing vents!

If a house did not exhibit any smoke, then the owner was notified that a vent problem existed.

So, while this would be overly dramatic for a single RV, a simple test could be devised if you had a cheap extra Valterra cap for the end of the dump hose, connected the hose to the Dunp valve, and opened the valve. (Obviously the tank would have to be empty.).

This smoke test would show the leak into the coach, and would verify the vent is functional. And lastly, you could cover the vent and essentially "force" the smoke through any leak.


Craig Bailey
New England
2007 Chevy 2500HD crew
2015 Jayco Jayflight 32BHDS

[t2daniel]

Originally Posted by ctbailey

This smoke test would show the leak into the coach, and would verify the vent is functional. And lastly, you could cover the vent and essentially "force" the smoke through any leak.

Thanks ctbailey

That would be cool!!

I do have a small fog machine like they have for concerts. The Fog does't really have any odor to it either. I'll have to see if I have any fog juice. They usually have it at party city as we get close to Halloween. Might give it a try.

[t2daniel]

So, so far dumped all 3 tanks. All tanks dumped with force, so no vacuum being pulled in the tanks. Got up on the roof and listened and (yuk) smelled each vent with water running. Clearly no blockages on both counts (stinky)

Going to stick a mirror down the toilet (6.99 from Harbor Freight) and then going to try and peel back the underbelly to get a look at what is going on.

So no magic bullet yet.

[troutslayer]

Originally Posted by t2daniel

Going to stick a mirror down the toilet (6.99 from Harbor Freight)

Don't drop it!

[abarkl]

Tie a string to it just in case it is dropped.

[t2daniel]

Originally Posted by troutslayer

Don't drop it!

didn't.

Originally Posted by abarkl

Tie a string to it just in case it is dropped.

That would have been a good idea....but I didn't drop it

Ok, gotta rethink this.

I put the mirror down...vent pipe is right where it should be. Something didn't look right so I just pulled the under belly. Not as hard as I thought it would be.

Interesting enough, the toilet drops right into the edge of the tank...no side pipe. What I thought was a pipe is just the edge of the tank. These tanks do not have square edges, they are nice and rounded on the bottom with a nice contour that is slightly below the tank leading to the outlet. Makes for good emptying of the tank. It also seems the bottom of the tank is rounded for better dumping. Grey tanks are the same type, just smaller.

The second picture is on it's side...no time to rotate now.

So all mechanical seem to be ok...Underbelly was surprisingly clean and no sign of any critters, dead or alive. No sign of any leaking of anything...ever. One interesting thing is the straps around the bottom of the tank are really loose. I wonder if the tank is suspended only from the top, and the straps are only to "catch" the tank in an emergency??

So now I am just wondering if the issue is the Black Tank vent is right next to my bathroom roof vent (hatch) and escaping odors from the black tank are just coming in through the bathroom vent. I always leave the vent open in the summer to let the trailer breath.

Right now I'm stumped.

[Marcm157]

Others have reported that with their bathroom fan running nasty smells will be brought in to the trailer. Not sure if this is your issue or not.

[abarkl]

I was hoping for pictures of the inside of the tank. Well, maybe not. But what about a GoPro?
I'm not sure it really helps but we have installed this vent cover on all RVs; https://www.amazon.com/Chaffee-Eng-V.../dp/B00RZY7D4K

Many owners swear by this one; https://www.amazon.com/Camco-40595-W.../dp/B003P64XU4

And here are the replacement check valves; https://www.amazon.com/Oatey-39012-L.../dp/B000KKSP52

P.S. Your theory about the vent odors entering through the fan vent don't stink. Sorry, but this is just a ****ty topic. Ha ha!

[ALJO]

If you open the dump valve slow you always smell some black tank odor which is a normal condition. Tank straps are there for the installation process and have no other purpose. Those small fans in the bathrooms are just a waist because they do not cover the whole shroud.

[John7349]

Originally Posted by abarkl

Recent tank smells we've had only while underway are from the grey and not black. Easy enough to cover all inlets and eliminate the smell.

What about running a tank flush wand from the toilet down and/or from the drain up? A blocked vent does cause many owners a problem, and many swear by the GEO method of cleaning.

Our motorhome also has a black tank check valve which can fail and it's accessible under the bathroom sink. The grey tank valve is actually mounted behind the furnace access panel under the fridge.

It is possible to have a "TP Dam" in the horizontal sewer line just past the toilet. Liquids flow past but solids, not so much.... Your tank may be clean but between the toilet and the "Dam" could be your problem.

[t2daniel]

From what I can see, the tank is not "clean" but there are no major pieces of anything in the tank. I just flushed it again for about a 1/2 hour tpo.

With the Roof vent closed the trailer smells worse than ever. So not a vent fan issue.

The last thing I can think of is ordering a new toilet flange seal and maybe a new toilet. Running out of options and time. I saw on another post somewhere that the seals on the toilet cannot be replaced and sometimes they leak.

Originally Posted by abarkl

I was hoping for pictures of the inside of the tank. Well, maybe not. But what about a GoPro?

Sounds good, when are you bringing your by so we can try it out.

You need a light as well, but it was hard to see, flashlight in one hand mirror in the other, trying to get everything at the right angle to see.

Thanks for the hints on the vent caps. Also saw the 360 Siphon cap that has good reviews. New vent caps might be next in line, but would have to be done on the trip.

[t2daniel]

Originally Posted by John7349

It is possible to have a "TP Dam" in the horizontal sewer line just past the toilet. Liquids flow past but solids, not so much.... Your tank may be clean but between the toilet and the "Dam" could be your problem.

John7349, the trailer sat for a month with some leftovers in the tank. When I dumped there was absolutely no sign of anything solid. Everything liquefied. So I know I have a "clean" tank.

[John7349]

Originally Posted by t2daniel

John7349, the trailer sat for a month with some leftovers in the tank. When I dumped there was absolutely no sign of anything solid. Everything liquefied. So I know I have a "clean" tank.

I was thinking between the toilet and a possible "TP Dam" before the black tank.

Trapped sediment after liquids overflow the "Dam". A friend of mine had this happen.

[Camping Grandpa]

Dumb question here....did you remove and re-set the stool?
On our las used rv we cleaned it very well but couldn't get rid of a urine odor in the bathroom. On closer inspection I discovered a shroud around the base of the toiet that wasn't really obvious until I nearly stuck my head behind the stool ( not easy or fun). I removed the shroud and discovered a lot of dried urine crystals on the floor and base of the stool....the stool was porcelain and the shroud was plastic.
I cleaned and bleached the area and re installed the shorod. Never smelled bad again.
You say that you experienced a back up before the odor began. Could be that the stool isn't sealed well at the floor or there's a cover of some sort that isn't obvious until you feel around the back side.
Worth a shot....ya done everything else!
Good luck.
Tom

[t2daniel]

Originally Posted by Camping Grandpa

Dumb question here....did you remove and re-set the stool?

Tom, No I have not removed the toilet yet. I have the Thetford Aqua magic V high 1 piece toilet. I have stuck my head and nose in places I am not comfortable with. Bottom line is I can't pinpoint where the odor is coming from.

However, that being said, I am ordering a new gasket for the toilet and might remove and reset just to make sure. Everything around the toilet looks totally clean, but like you said, I've tried almost everything else.