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09-30-2014, 03:43 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sissonville
Posts: 11
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Bent springs
I have a 2012 jayco 154bh which i done a axle flip on 2 years ago. When returning from our last camping trip we went through some rough road in a construction area and i heard a loud noise,when i checked it i noticed the spring master leaf on both sides had bowed out so far that the spring shackles flipped up against the frame of the TT .It has the orignal springs and the TT is not overloaded and their is nothing in the tanks.any idea what may have caused this?
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09-30-2014, 05:57 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,736
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Can you attach a photo or two.
When you say spring shackle, I am assuming the equalizer shackle between the two spring assemblies.
My first thought, would be to long of a leaf spring. But I bet if you look really closely you broke the main leaf springs. I would pull the tires, and check the springs go for damage.
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09-30-2014, 06:28 AM
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#3
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Lost in the Woods
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 1,128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagiven
When you say spring shackle, I am assuming the equalizer shackle between the two spring assemblies.
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it is a 154bh....single axle
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09-30-2014, 06:37 AM
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#4
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Lost in the Woods
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 1,128
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Most Jayco's at 3500gvwr and under are overloaded brand new on the lot.
sounds like you encountered some rough roads and broke a spring.
they are not that expensive to replace.
Or maybe time to redo the whole thing if you want ground clearance. maybe you can put Timbrens on it
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09-30-2014, 07:35 AM
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#5
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Fayette Ridges of PA, USA
Posts: 5,252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbhybrid
Most Jayco's at 3500gvwr and under are overloaded brand new on the lot...
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What document(s) can you refer me to that substantiates this claim? I'm having a difficult time believing that a manufacturer would intentionally build an RV using an underrated suspension. I would like to read it with my own eyes.
__________________
MODERATOR
TV: 2009 GMC Sierra 2500HD | Crew Cab | Std. Box | 4WD | Duramax/Allison
RV: 2000 Jayco Eagle 266 | FBS | TT
PREVIOUS: 1986 Coleman Laramie pop-up -- Still in the family!!!
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09-30-2014, 07:53 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Spicewood, Texas
Posts: 913
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WEIGHTS
Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs) 2,425
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs) 290
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs) 3,200
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs) 775
As these only have 3500 lbs rated axel it would not be hard to over load. Flipping won't change anything but ride height. So it would be easy to bend or break a spring on a rough road.
__________________
2015 338RETS Eagle Premier gloss sides., king.
2012 Ram 3500, crew cab 4x4 duelly Deleted
16k miles, 530HP, 1000 +torque.
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09-30-2014, 07:57 AM
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#7
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Lost in the Woods
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 1,128
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I have 300 lbs of CC....FINE....maybe not overloaded on the lot but lets get real. Clothes bedding and necessary tools to camp and I am at a minimum 3200lbs on Jayco's 3000lb axle.....you want to come and cat my trailer I can give you my address but I am not going to just to prove what I already know.`I can't remedy it anyway because I am taking the bare necessities to camp. When i have a failure I will upgrade it then...there was another person JUST on here that did run through a cat and they were the same ...3100ish lbs on Jayco's 3000lb axle they decided to install..
http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/sh...ighlight=scale
BTW..no one else needs to prove what they say on here so why do I
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09-30-2014, 07:58 AM
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#8
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Lost in the Woods
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 1,128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texashighsheriff
WEIGHTS
Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs) 2,425
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs) 290
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs) 3,200
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs) 775
As these only have 3500 lbs rated axel it would not be hard to over load. Flipping won't change anything but ride height. So it would be easy to bend or break a spring on a rough road.
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thats the problem Texas....it would be great if they did put in a 3500lb axle but they put in a 3000...at least that is what my X17A has and most others I have seen
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09-30-2014, 08:13 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 3,430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FPM III
What document(s) can you refer me to that substantiates this claim? I'm having a difficult time believing that a manufacturer would intentionally build an RV using an underrated suspension. I would like to read it with my own eyes.
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Not so much underrated but right at the "wall" so to speak. So if it has a 3000# axle, they are expecting that the other 500# of the GVWR is on the tongue. No wiggle room. It may be a cost savings measure but I can't imagine that a 3500# axle costs that much more than a 3000# one. Then again if they did that they could not advertise that these small trailers can be towed by a mini-van or small SUV. So it seems to me to be more of a marketing ploy.
__________________
Chuck
2013 Jayco Jayfeather X20 E (sold)
2016 Chevy Silverado LTZ 2 Z71 Crew Cab (sold, and dearly missed)
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09-30-2014, 08:15 AM
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#10
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Lost in the Woods
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 1,128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Not so much underrated but right at the "wall" so to speak. So if it has a 3000# axle, they are expecting that the other 500# of the GVWR is on the tongue. No wiggle room. It may be a cost savings measure but I can't imagine that a 3500# axle costs that much more than a 3000# one.
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exactly..thank you
it wouldn't cost a penny more I am sure
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09-30-2014, 08:26 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: NY Southern Tier
Posts: 105
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A lot of trailers and motorhomes are near their GVWR as manufactured. Back in the 90s some Fleetwood morohomes only had about 300-500# of cargo and passengers left before they reached their GVWR. That's why I bought a Southwind with aluminum wall and roof studs instead of a Bounder with steel. The Southwind still had about 200-300# left after passengers and load. The Bounder would have been at least 500# over and that's with empty tanks, except propane and fuel. My Jayco class C was even better, with over 800# left.
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2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD LT 6.0L 4.10
2015 Jayco White Hawk 24RKS
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09-30-2014, 08:49 AM
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#12
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Lost in the Woods
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 1,128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown
Then again if they did that they could not advertise that these small trailers can be towed by a mini-van or small SUV. So it seems to me to be more of a marketing ploy.
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others do.
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09-30-2014, 08:49 AM
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#13
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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I believe the statement that was being questioned was that "most Jayco's at 3500gvwr and under are overloaded brand new on the lot"...., no one is questioning the fact that some of the smaller trailers have limited CCC's, and/or axle ratings.
It should be noted that the reference example (link) used in an earlier post where the OP in that thread had a CAT axle weight of 3,100lb on a 3,000lb axle rating (2012 model 165)...., it should be noted that he also mentioned that in a prior weigh his tongue weight was 600lbs. Thus (3,100 + 600) = 3,700lbs, so 200lbs over his 3,500 GVWR, which of course can influence axle weight.
Bob
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2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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09-30-2014, 08:57 AM
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#14
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Lost in the Woods
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 1,128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle
I believe the statement that was being questioned was that "most Jayco's at 3500gvwr and under are overloaded brand new on the lot"...., no one is questioning the fact that some of the smaller trailers have limited CCC's, and/or axle ratings.
It should be noted that the reference example (link) used in an earlier post where the OP in that thread had a CAT axle weight of 3,100lb on a 3,000lb axle rating (2012 model 165)...., it should be noted that he also mentioned that in a prior weigh his tongue weight was 600lbs. Thus (3,100 + 600) = 3,700lbs, so 200lbs over his 3,500 GVWR, which of course can influence axle weight.
Bob
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well..sorry to tell ya but they are more than close. My X17A has a shipped weight of 3150lbs. 42 lbs in the HW..gets me to 3200. 20 lbs of fresh water for convenience... I am within 100lbs of my axles rating before I load one personal item...
Do I care? not even a little bit but my statements are for the OP since he thinks he isn't overloaded and he likely is
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09-30-2014, 11:02 AM
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#15
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: frankfort
Posts: 42
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Bent springs
Shackle inversion usually happens when the suspension is drooping to its maximum point. This is when the shackle is in line with the arch of the main leaf of the spring pack. While at this point, if the tire hits something while moving forward, its possible, and probable, that the shackle will fold backwards instead of returning to its normal position when weight is put back on the wheel. The shackle folding back against the frame, shortens the eye to eye length of the spring, possibly bending it. Shackle inversion is usually pretty simple to remedy, a lever of some kind is used to pry the shackle away from the frame and past the point of max droop, and then the spring will do its job and spring back to where it should be. Be careful though, as the spring attempts to spring back, it has some stored energy that will be released pretty quick like, possibly taking your lever and throwing it into the woods. Shackle inversion can be avoided by installing stops on the frame to limit the shackles travel, or designing a stop into the shackle itself. Continued shackle inversion may signal a need for heavier spring. Check the trailer weight at a truck stop with scales or a material yard. Your TT more than likely has Dexter Axles. If it is a Dexter this can be checked by looking for the name Dexter Axle near the center of the axle on the rear side. Below the Dexter name you will see a 9 digit number ( lot number). Rub a piece a chalk over the number will help bring it out.
With this number go to dexteraxles.com and the customer contact area of the web site. Give them this number and ask them to provide you with the axle capacity and spring capacity ( spring and axle capacity can be different. Also ask them if there is a heavier spring available which will fit your axle.
Hope this helps.
Reedga1990
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09-30-2014, 11:07 AM
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#16
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Lost in the Woods
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 1,128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reedga1990
possibly taking your lever and throwing it into the woods.
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great post. I especially liked the quote above
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09-30-2014, 11:58 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 202
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This is an interesting discussion, but I am a little surprised that it is something to discuss. When I picked up my first trailer (a 1995 Jayco) I learned very quickly on my truck forum that RV manufacturers, as a general rule, equip the trailers so that the suspension is completely utilized. That trailer ran at 103% of axle and tire capacity after accounting for tongue weight. It seems this is a common situation regardless of manufacturer or price segment. I just was reading a thread about a Mobile Suites fifth wheel - I gather a very expensive, high-end trailer - and the axles and tires were utilized at slightly more than total capacity after accounting for pin weight. It appears to be the rule to me.
I upgraded the suspension on my new trailer for peace of mind - I viewed it as part of the cost of the trailer. Now my springs are the weakest leak in the suspension - they are rated for the trailer weight - but everything else runs at around 75% of capacity.
I don't know why RV manufacturers do this - there is little price difference in axles, wheels, tires, etc. They just seem to cut corners whenever possible. For example, they used two little flimsy hinges on the bed platform, which quickly broke - completely worthless. I put on a full-length piano hinge - no problems since. That couldn't have cost $2 or $3 more at the factory, but they seek to shave those dollars off. I guess the public wants to pay as little as possible, even if these things would only make a $500 difference in the price of a trailer. I find it annoying.
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2012 Ram 2500 CC CTD
2015 Jayco Jayflight 28BHBE
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09-30-2014, 12:46 PM
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#18
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: frankfort
Posts: 42
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I believe Luv2 camp wanted to know the possible reason for shackle inversion.
He had already up graded his axles but not his springs!
Everyone seem to be telling him of their experiences, but not the root cause.
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09-30-2014, 12:49 PM
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#19
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Lost in the Woods
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 1,128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reedga1990
I believe Luv2 camp wanted to know the possible reason for shackle inversion.
He had already up graded his axles but not his springs!
Everyone seem to be telling him of their experiences, but not the root cause.
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I don't see any mention of any upgrades to his axle in any post.
standard axle and standard springs
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09-30-2014, 01:32 PM
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#20
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: frankfort
Posts: 42
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I assume he is saying he changed axles when he said;
"I have a 2012 jayco 154bh which i done a axle flip on 2 years ago"
If this is not the case my interpretation of " axle flip " is incorrect, but the root cause and the possible remedy lies in my explanation.
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