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Old 04-20-2015, 01:42 PM   #21
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Qua, 3 and klpo,
Who woulda thought it'd be so complicated?
I feel that the document that I've been quoting was an incomplete explanation - lpop's post leads me to that conclusion. Thanks!

I'm starting to think Qua will need a Class A but I won't (still holding out hope).
I interpret the GCVW as the TV GCWR which is 22000#.

3, in your explanation it seems that you are saying the "Gross Combined..." is the sum of the GVWR of TT and TV which would be 26650# in my case. I tend to disagree with that (especially since it gives me the answer I don't want ).

A Bing search of "Gross Combined..." yielded this from the "US Legal" website which states it's a legal definition of the term (and since it's on the interweb it's gotta be right).

Gross Combination Weight Rating or GCWR is defined as "the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination (articulated) motor vehicle. In the absence of a value specified by the manufacturer, GCWR will be determined by adding the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit and any load thereon." Glanville v. Dupar, Inc., 2009 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 88408 (S.D. Tex. Sept. 25, 2009)

Whatever the right answer, I appreciate everyone checking in on the topic!

We leave this Thurs for a few days near Granbury TX.

Granbury Wine Walk
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Old 04-21-2015, 05:54 AM   #22
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Some pretty good discussion and clarification for any of you from the great State of Texas who might fall into the category of needing a Class A Exempt (non-CDL) license. It's not all up to date but gets clearer toward the end.

Texas non-cdl class A drivers license study material - Beginning RVing - Escapees Discussion Forum
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Old 04-21-2015, 06:44 AM   #23
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Quahog - since liability seems to be one of your concerns here, what does your insurance company have to say on the subject? They are the ones that are going to have to pay out a big award, and might look for any excuse to avoid doing so. I would make sure that they agree with whatever final decision you come to.
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:14 PM   #24
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Good suggestion, Mike. My primary motivation is to CMA and be legal. I don't want to get stopped by a Trooper and find out my license isn't valid for what I'm towing. Second but no less important is that I not find myself in a situation where I'm financially liable because I failed to obtain proper licensing and inspection for my new rig.
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:16 PM   #25
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...and not to belabor the point but here's another thread that I found to be both informative and helpful. I'll likely drive up to Livingston or somewhere a bit more rural than Houston for the driving test. No sense making it more difficult than it has to be or dealing with someone who's inexperienced and doesn't really understand the requirement for the Class A Exempt license.

Texas Class A Exempt (Non Commercial) License Requirements - iRV2 Forums
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:22 PM   #26
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Reading this it seems to me that all they want is more money. When I had my Towing business I had trucks with gvw of 33,000 lbs and needed a Class A CDL. Was also certified by Federal to operate my business. When the federal inspector came by we talked about this and he said that it only applies to commercial company's not privately owned vehicles. Now that was in 2002.
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Old 04-30-2015, 05:47 AM   #27
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So here's an update on the Class A Exempt license requirement. After visiting my local DPS office to get info, I could tell immediately we were in unchartered water. They were adamant that an RV was synonymous with a motorhome and that a 5th wheel was a trailer and therefore, none of these requirements applied. But after 15 mins of reviewing documentation and discussing things with the person at the counter, he had convinced himself that indeed it was required and he went to fetch the supervisor. She immediately started in on the "an RV is not a trailer" thing so I was ready to throw my hands up. Before I left, she asked me to email DPS in Austin and provide a picture of the rig, and any pertinent info so they could provide the official answer, which I did. My email contained a photo and the GVWR of both the TV and the FW, along with how I believed they would calcluate the GCVWR (basically, they take whatever is on the label and add the two together).

It took three days for them to get back to me but I did receive multiple calls. The person I spoke to that yes, I would need to obtain a Class A Exempt (non-CDL) license. He also reached out to the same supervisor at the local DPS office to educate her on what's required before calling me back to let me know things have been clarified.

I'm now studying for my written test and I'll schedule the driving test once I pickup the new FW.
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Old 04-30-2015, 08:32 AM   #28
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So then I have to ask the question: If the supervisor at the DPS office, who deals with issuing all manner of license to TX drivers on a daily basis, doesn't know or is under the impression that you are not required to obtain an exempt Class A, and virtually every other trooper you spoke with in this process is under the same impression, but the guys in charge up in Austin say it's so, how will the average trooper out patrolling our fine Texas roadways and thoroughfares know what to enforce? Or how to enforce it?

Non-commercial vehicles are not currently required to stop for open weigh stations, and I seriously doubt a weigh master (usually the troopers in Tahoes) is going to give you even a sideways glance, and the average troopers (those who don't usually deal with heavy trucks) certainly aren't going to know what to look for.

I guess it's a little like the philosophical question of the tree in the woods: if there is no person or method to enforce the law, does it really exist?
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Old 04-30-2015, 08:38 AM   #29
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It's amazing...how do you defend yourself agasint a ticket from the enforcing oficer when the people who are supposed to know the law don't understand it. I bet 50% or more of the people who ask just take the first answer and carry on. Had you not done your due dilligence and fact mined ahead of the visit you might have just went on as currently licensed.
NYS is no different in their knowledge of said law as it took me 3 calls and "let me check with my supervisor" to get 2 different answers. This is probably why there are very few tickets written on this, as the officers probably get the response that the DMV told me I was exempt.

Where you could potentially run into an issue is again with the lawyers and a suit which is why I made sure I was legit.

Good luck! I am supervising for a friend getting his B in a few weeks.
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Old 05-01-2015, 02:24 PM   #30
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I know the OP was asking about TX, but it got me thinking so I double checked IL. An even though my TT has a GVWR of 10,250#, I don't need a Class A CDL since the GVCWR is not over 26,000#. I also don't need a Class B or C since the TV is not over 16,000#


Classifications

  • Class A — Combination of vehicles with a GCWR* of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the GVWR of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Class B — Single vehicle with a GVWR* of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Class C — Single vehicle with a GVWR* of at least 16,001 pounds but less than 26,001 pounds.
  • Class D — Single vehicle with a GVWR* of less than 16,001 pounds.
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Old 05-01-2015, 04:00 PM   #31
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Good thing I'm a truck driver and already have a CDL and all endorsements. So I can pull my little 19 foot TT anywhere. Do I need to put placards out for my propane? LOL.
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Old 05-01-2015, 07:51 PM   #32
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Well aside from all the confusion of the local DPS office, it sounds like in other cities close by this is fairly well known. After doing a lot of reading, it sounds like Livingston, TX issues lots of these Class A Exempt licenses. I guess that's due to there being a lot of RVs in that area. So when I spoke to the DPS agent in Austin, I asked if I could take the written test locally and perhaps the driving test elsewhere. (I don't want to be the guinea pig with the local office)... He told me that was permitted so today, I completed the written test and passed, thankfully. Now all I have to do is get the new trailer and take the test. If anyone wants more info on the written test, let me know.

My SIL is a truck driver so if I need someone to get me there, I'm sure he'd help. But from everything others are saying, they don't ask nor do they want to know how you got there. Sounds like they assume you drove yourself and they look the other way.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:11 PM   #33
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3 - that's a great link. Thanks for posting it!

Here's an excerpt out of the Texas Driver Handbook (Sept 14) regarding RVs and special license requirements:

Classified Driver Licenses

Class A, B, C, and M driver licenses are issued to individuals who are exempt or not required to obtain a commercial driver license (CDL).
Individuals who operate any of the following vehicles are exempt from obtaining a CDL but may need a Class A or Class B driver license because the type of vehicle driven still meets the definition of a commercial motor vehicle. For more information on what is considered a commercial motor vehicle, please see the special requirements section in the Texas Commercial Motor Vehicle Drivers Handbook.

1. A fire-fighting or emergency vehicle necessary to the preservation of life or property or the execution of emergency governmental functions whether operated by an employee of a political subdivision or by a volunteer fire fighter.

2. A military vehicle or a commercial motor vehicle when operated for military purposes by military personnel, members of the Reserves and National Guard on active duty including personnel on full- time National Guard duty, personnel on part-time training, and National Guard military techni- cians.

3. A recreational vehicle driven for personal use.

4. A vehicle that is owned, leased, or controlled by an air carrier, and is driven or operated exclusively by an employee of the air carrier only on the premises of an airport, on service roads to which the public does not have access.

5. A vehicle used exclusively to transport seed cotton modules or cotton burrs. 6. A vehicle:
a. Controlled and operated by a farmer;
b. Used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery, or farm supplies to or from a farm; c. Not used in the operation of a common or contract motor carrier; or
d. Used within 150 miles of the person’s farm.

Class A Driver License

A Class A driver license permits a person to drive:

1. Any vehicle or combination of vehicles described under a Class B or Class C driver license; and

2. A vehicle or combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 lbs. or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) towed is in excess of 10,000 lbs.

A Class A driver license does not permit a person to drive a motorcycle or moped.

I underlined the parts that I felt were pertinent to this topic. I think that pretty much confirms what I've been fearing.
It's that exceptions to the exemptions that gets you.Yes you need a class A non-CDL here in Tx.Had mine since going dually 2years ago.
The driving test will be pulling your RV demonstrating turns and lane changes.be sure and do the walk around before moving.You will also have to demonstrate "parallel parking" by backing and moving rv to the right in a specified distance.
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Old 05-02-2015, 04:22 AM   #34
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It's that exceptions to the exemptions that gets you.Yes you need a class A non-CDL here in Tx.Had mine since going dually 2years ago.
The driving test will be pulling your RV demonstrating turns and lane changes.be sure and do the walk around before moving.You will also have to demonstrate "parallel parking" by backing and moving rv to the right in a specified distance.
Thanks Poohbear... when you say "do the walk around", do you mean the rig inspection? I read quite a bit about how you're supposed to check your tires, lug nuts for rust, tread, etc. plus check the lights, and mechanical components to look for safety issues before starting off. Any additional info you have would be most appreciated. Thanks
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Old 05-02-2015, 05:40 AM   #35
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I don't have my handbook but there is something about a visual check before departing.check mirrors,walk around making sure no obstacles ,stuff .the drive will be manuvers to make sure you swing out to make right turns on a small intersection,lane changes.I had to make a left from a stop sign crossing a 4 lane + turnlane hwy and the trick is to NOT turn into the turn lane but 1st lane then merge to outside lane.Be sure and set parking brake before and at the end of test,that's a gotcha.It wasnt as hard a test as I thought it would be
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Old 05-02-2015, 07:55 AM   #36
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I'm pretty sure it's illegal to use the turn lane for entering a roadway anyway. The purpose is to turn when exiting that roadway. Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:17 PM   #37
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Just finished passing my Class A Exempt driving test. I did mine in Fredericksburg, Tx. Been pulling the Northpoint since last January so I "thought" I had it covered. My tester agreed that it was the ugliest parallel parking job ever. I even practiced. But I practiced parallel parking to the left. Test was to the right. Did a good job backing up about 50 feet. I also did not come to a complete stop at a stop sign. Nervous I guess. BUT I PASSED! You can go on the DPS site and schedule the driving test. Not all DPS offices do Class A driver skills tests. Written test is taken mostly from Chapter 14 of handbook. 20 questions. Livingston, Tx., is popular cuz there is a large contingent of "Escapee" RV members there. They know what's required.
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Old 11-18-2017, 03:01 PM   #38
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I'm pretty sure it's illegal to use the turn lane for entering a roadway anyway. The purpose is to turn when exiting that roadway. Thanks for the heads up.
Folks here in East Tx think that turn lane is the express lane
I forgot to add that those Exceptions to the Exemptions are found in the CDL handbook
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