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Old 06-02-2013, 12:30 PM   #1
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Electrical Question

I don't quit understand how the electrical system of RV's work. The lights are 12 volt as is the fridge, fans etc. Then on the other hand you have your TVs, toasters, and other items that plug into 110 volt plugs and work. If I tap into say one of the 12 volt light fixtures, am I tapping into 12 volts or 110 volts? I am thinking of adding small fans in each of my four bunks. Each has a light. Do I need 12 volt fans or 110 volt fans? TIA
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:43 PM   #2
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My understanding is the lights are 12 volt and the plugs are 110 volts. If you want to tap into the light then you would be tapping into 12 volts. I just added a fan in the fridge hooked up to the light and it was 12 volts.
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:35 PM   #3
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My understanding is the lights are 12 volt and the plugs are 110 volts. If you want to tap into the light then you would be tapping into 12 volts. I just added a fan in the fridge hooked up to the light and it was 12 volts.
I also added a fan to the fridge. The funny thing is it is simply a computer fan. Mine is hooked up to 12 volt as well, however when that same fan is in a computer, it is running off 110!
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:36 PM   #4
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Generally, your fridge will not run on 12 volts, unless it's a three-way one. The two way ones, run on gas and 110/120. I believe that the lights run on 12 volts, even when you are plugged into shore power. I think the inverter changes the 110/120 somehow into direct current for the lighting.
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:38 PM   #5
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Generally, your fridge will not run on 12 volts, unless it's a three-way one. The two way ones, run on gas and 110/120. I believe that the lights run on 12 volts, even when you are plugged into shore power. I think the inverter changes the 110/120 somehow into direct current for the lighting.
So, would I need 12 volt fans to tap into the lights?
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:53 PM   #6
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You have 2 power systems in your trailer. A 110 v AC system that your standard duplex plugs, TV, Microwave, A/C And some other items run off of. And A 12 v DC system that your Lights, Furnace, Slides, some refers, radio, and other other items and Power points (cigaret lighter) adapters run off of. Your 12 v is made by the converter charger when plugged into shore power and runs off the battery bank when dry camping.
When doing ANYTHING to your power system, know which one you are working on (test with volt meter) and know what you are doing. If unsure, have a professional help or do it for you. Doing the wrong thing with power can, burn up appliances, trailers, or kill you or others.
Most Computer (PC) fans are 12 v.
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Old 06-02-2013, 03:04 PM   #7
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When you plug into shore power, that current (AC) is sent to the converter, as well as direct to the 110 powered receptacles and any other equipment that is run on AC. The 110 current is converted to 12V by the converter, and is used to keep the camper's battery(s) charged. All lights and other 12V powered equipment then gets its power from the battery. Meanwhile, the 110 current runs things like the fridge, ceiling fan, A/C compressor, microwave, etc.

If you tap directly into the wires powering the 12V lamps, you will only get 12V to power the fans. If you tap into the wires powering the receptacles, you will get 110V, which will run 110V fans.

If your fans have their own lights, and are 110, then why not keep it simple and just plug into a receptacle ? Or if there are none nearby, tap into the nearest receptacle and run house wiring (14-2 or 12-2 Romex cable) to a location that you can install a new receptacle.

If your fans are 12V, then you can tap into a nearby existing light. Just be sure that the fan/light does not pull more amps than the existing wires are rated for, or you risk an overheat/potential fire hazard. Alternately, if your power center isn't too far away, you could tap into the 12V output from the converter, and run wires of proper size to the fan/light locations.

If you are unsure that you can handle the job safely and within code specs, I would recommend finding a professional electrician to do the job for you, for your safety.

Hope this helps.
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:09 PM   #8
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Thank you for the help. I may just buy the fan/light combos made for popups, and replace the present lights in the bunks with those.
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:27 PM   #9
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12V circuits have different considerations than 110V. Wiring needs to be sized with resistance and voltage drop in mind. The longer the run, the larger the wire needs to be even though the amperage draw may be the same. Also, while a 10% voltage drop is acceptable for lights, motors will not tolerate a drop of more than 3%. Besides less than desirable operation, you also risk overheating of the wiring and fire with undersized wire.

Before tapping lighting circuits for a fan, you should see what the voltage is at the light. You should check this both with any other lights that may be on the same circuit turned on. You may get by with operation a small fan if no lights are turned on, but may find that the fan runs slow or not at all when you start turning them on. We can hear our factory installed hatch fan slow down when the bathroom light is turned on.
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:08 PM   #10
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I also added a fan to the fridge. The funny thing is it is simply a computer fan. Mine is hooked up to 12 volt as well, however when that same fan is in a computer, it is running off 110!
Actually not, it is running on 12 volt as the power supply in the computer power to DC low voltage as computer hardware is all low voltage.

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Old 06-02-2013, 09:28 PM   #11
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I could be wrong but going down the road you are running off of 12 volts and propane and when plugged in you run off of 110.
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:54 PM   #12
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I could be wrong but going down the road you are running off of 12 volts and propane and when plugged in you run off of 110.
When you are plugged in to shore power you have 110 volt to outlets and appliances, the converter converts 110 AC to 12 volt DC to charge the batteries and run the lights and fans and such.

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Old 06-03-2013, 03:55 AM   #13
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I also added a fan to the fridge. The funny thing is it is simply a computer fan. Mine is hooked up to 12 volt as well, however when that same fan is in a computer, it is running off 110!
Muffin fans like the one in your computer are available in an array of voltages from 5vdc to 240VAC and possibly beyond, although the highest voltage muffin fan that I have personally used has been a 240VAC one. Don't assume as others have stated that just because the fan is in a computer that it is running off XX volts. Check the label on the fan motor and it will tell you the voltage required. As others have stated, check the voltage at the point you want to tap off of before doing your work. Generally the lighting, range hood fan and light, bathroom exhaust fan, bunk end fan/light combos, fridge light, water pump in an RV are all 12v dc and the duplex receps are for 110v AC.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:24 AM   #14
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Muffin or pancake fans do come in different voltages, but the standard home computer fan will be 12 volts DC so most any fans salvaged from a home desktop computer will 99.9% be 12 vdc.

Your desktop computer has a power supply to convert your 120 volt AC (Alternating Current) home power to DC (Direct Current) that the computer can use. That power supply typically provides a 12 volt DC source for things like drives and cooling fans. There is also a highly stable (regulated) 5 volt DC supply which is used for the computer electronics.

As was said earlier, the 120 volt AC and 12 volt DC systems are basically completely separate (and need to remain so) except that your travel trailer has a power supply to convert 120 volt shore power to 12 volts for general use, and also to charge the trailer battery. When plugged into the shore power pedestal you can use your interior trailer lights with wild abandon. When not plugged into shore power it is wise to not use any more interior lights than actually needed to conserve your battery power. It is best for battery life to never drain your trailer battery to less than 50% capacity. One clue that you are draining the battery too low is that the propane monitor alarm will start chirping at you. Most propane detectors have a low system voltage monitor.

Any propane burner controls and fans associated with your refrigerator, comfort heating system, and hot water are typically on the 12 volts so that they are available for you when you are on battery power only. That means that it would be possible to have 120 volts plugged in and not be able to run your furnace if the 12 volt DC system is not functioning properly.

Typically the computer 12 volt DC fans don't pull much current so although the wire sizing and voltage drop is important on 12 volt DC systems, the little fan will likely not be a problem. One quick check is to watch to see if the light which you connected to dims and stays dim when the fan is turned on. If the lamp stays bright while the fan is running your are likely not overloading that particular light circuit. That said, it is best to get a professional involved if you are not familiar with the systems.

FWIW. vic
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:24 AM   #15
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Good write up Vic, I was going to suggest speaking to your service department and ask them if the combo fan /light would be suitable for that area and you mentioned that yourself. You can learn a lot from the latest version of Trailer Life's book on trailer maintenance . In the front of the book he teaches you how to use a multi meter and the proper steps in electrical safety. There are other books at Camping World that specialize in RV electrical systems. It is possible to learn to do this but as mentioned earlier if you want it done now get the service guys to install it.
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:28 AM   #16
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This is a typical Block Diagram of your 30AMP Electrical Wiring for a RV Trailer...



The RV Trailer idea is to have all of your basic needs items (Lights - Fans - 12VDC Controls etc) running from 12VDC and the Appliances type nice to have items (Air Conditioner-Converter/charger-Fridge-Special lights- etc) running from 120VAC.

All of the 120VAC and 12VDC wiring is originated from a Power Distribution Panel where the 120VAC Circuit Breakers and 12VDC Fuses are located. This Distribution Panel is fed by the 120VAC from the Shore Power Connection and 12VDC from the Battery Bank.

When Connected to Shore Power a 120VAC CONVERTER/CHARGER unit is used to produce 12VDC to power up the 12VDC side of the Power Distribution Panel so that all of the 12VDC items will operate when plugged into 120VAC Shore Power. This converter/charger unit is also used as a battery charger to keep your connected batteries charged up when you are operating on shore power.

When camping without Shore Power then the on-board battery setup supplies only 12VDC to the Power Distribution Panel and will only operate the basic needs items 12VDC lights and some selected 12VDC items that are basic things you need to live in your trailer when camping off the power grid. Of course alot of other things run off of Propane that will work when you are on Shore Power or just the Battery.

Some folks will add an optional INVERTER (Not a converter) which will operate from the trailer battery setup and provide 120VAC to operate some of the selected 120VAC Appliances that only operate when you plugged into Shore Power.

There actually some thought going into the trailer to make it work at both Shore Power locations and basic needs when camping off the power grid.

It always amazing to see folks use "I guess this works like this" - There are many manuals out there for study on how your RV Trailer works. Be a good idea to read up on them...

It does take good planning on your part and the only way out of many experiences is having some good PLAN Bs in place. Might help you out when it gets dark on you at 10PM at night when camping off the power grid.

just for info
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:44 AM   #17
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I will add from experience those handy dual DC light/fan combo units are usually made very cheap and the ones that came with OFF-ROAD POPUP did not last very long. I would wire in some nice 12VDC LED "PUCK" type swivel lights like installed for air plane seating. Many type lights like this available out there... Must be 12VDC so they will work from your battery when you are camping off the power grid.
http://www.google.com/search?safe=ac...mg.itJ5WfzX3do

The best fan I have run across is the O2COOL 10-inch AC/DC portable fan (Lowes-Walmart-Amazon). This fan moves good air and works great from both Shore Power or Battery or internal D-CELLS... A great PLAN B item to have two or three of these around the trailer.


just my thoughts
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