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Old 05-29-2017, 08:21 PM   #1
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Emergency Communications

When you have zero bars on the.cell phone and you feel unsafe or have an emergency medical issue, how do you reach out for help? My daughter recommended we get a HAM license and gear, but I'm thinking a direct satellite device. What are folks relying on these days for help when camped in zero-bar land?
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Old 05-29-2017, 08:41 PM   #2
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Last summer we purchased a Delorme inReach SE Satellite Tracker for a dirt bike trip through northern ID and MT. A satellite phone was very expensive and the talk time was $10 a minute and up depending on the plan and carrier. This device allows you to text up to 160 characters by satellite and the plan was pretty cheap and we were never without a signal.
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Old 05-29-2017, 08:52 PM   #3
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When you have zero bars on the.cell phone and you feel unsafe or have an emergency medical issue, how do you reach out for help? My daughter recommended we get a HAM license and gear, but I'm thinking a direct satellite device. What are folks relying on these days for help when camped in zero-bar land?
Short answer is "our own wits". Best advice is to know the closest landline phone such as a gas station. Sat phones are expensive to own and to use. Chances are you would go years without needing or using it. Ham radios are not just plug and play simple. You have to have some radio experience and understand frequencies etc. You got there by road since you are camping in an RV. Even if its 40 or 50 miles away that last gas station is your best bet.

When we head off grid so to speak, we are accepting a certain amount of risk. Its probably not the best idea if someone in the group has a medical issue that might need immediate attention. Sat phone or not, you are most likely not going to get to a hospital in less than a few hours even if you were able to contact an emergency response center [911]. So that gets me back to relying on your own wits and common sense. I keep a decent medical kit in the TT and have a working knowledge of how to deal with a broken arm etc. Beyond that you jump into your truck and head for civilization.
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Old 05-29-2017, 08:53 PM   #4
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A ham license is fun but the gear can be expensive. Once you get an entry level license (technician class) it's good for 10 years. The problem I have with using a ham band UHF/VHF radio is the range. UHF/VHF radios are used for local repeaters and are mostly line of sight. If you are in a rural area, you may be out of the range of a repeater using an HT (hand held) radio.
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Old 05-29-2017, 10:02 PM   #5
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Get a SPOT device from any outdoor retailer worth their salt. Cheap insurance for that emergency you didn't see coming. Rugged, usually waterproof, and stupid simple, push a big button and help comes.
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:11 AM   #6
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Short answer is "our own wits". Best advice is to know the closest landline phone such as a gas station. Sat phones are expensive to own and to use. Chances are you would go years without needing or using it. Ham radios are not just plug and play simple. You have to have some radio experience and understand frequencies etc. You got there by road since you are camping in an RV. Even if its 40 or 50 miles away that last gas station is your best bet.

When we head off grid so to speak, we are accepting a certain amount of risk. Its probably not the best idea if someone in the group has a medical issue that might need immediate attention. Sat phone or not, you are most likely not going to get to a hospital in less than a few hours even if you were able to contact an emergency response center [911]. So that gets me back to relying on your own wits and common sense. I keep a decent medical kit in the TT and have a working knowledge of how to deal with a broken arm etc. Beyond that you jump into your truck and head for civilization.
Being off grid is one of our reasons for going camping. Practical cell technology has only been available for about 20 years. I've been camping for nearly 60 years. Lots of areas out west here with no reception. It doesn't take long when leaving the freeway for one to find dead zones. In the mountains, there are more dead spots than not. Like Bassdogs, we try to be prepared to handle most situations ourselves, or get ourselves back to where we can reach the outside world.

We have a spotty connection even in our home, so I'm never surprised or concerned when the phone goes blank on a trip.
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:23 AM   #7
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OK, now you have my interest.... How does the SPOT unit communicate? All the ones I looked at use the cellular frequencies or landlines, which meant if there was no cell service (or land line) there units would not work. The one my mother had used landline or cellular. I did see one company a few years ago that used satellite phone service for theirs.

Just curious,

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Old 05-30-2017, 09:23 AM   #8
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Get a SPOT device from any outdoor retailer worth their salt. Cheap insurance for that emergency you didn't see coming. Rugged, usually waterproof, and stupid simple, push a big button and help comes.
Yup. I am a SPOT user as well. They are very rugged and very easy to operate. You have simple buttons you press which can then send preset SMS messages or call for help. I haven't been doing it in the last couple years but I have a SPOT II Messenger still that I used when I was doing long distance (Iron Butt Association) motorcycle rides. This way I could ping my wife with a message that I was starting/stopping for the day as well as a periodic I'm OK message with the two programmable buttons. At any point she or anyone I shared the site with could log into the system to see where I was at in near real time and if I was moving. It also has two buttons for send help. One being an OnStar like I need roadside assistance and the other being more urgent SOS and send a Medivac/Police/Fire.

The system is Sat based and works just about anywhere in the world. While I wouldn't call the service cheap, it is much less than a sat phone. They have some newer units that let you send more accurate messages. For instance I think they pair to your smartphone and you can type whatever you want in the message where mine is an older one that I have to preconfigure.
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:28 AM   #9
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OK, now you have my interest.... How does the SPOT unit communicate? All the ones I looked at use the cellular frequencies or landlines, which meant if there was no cell service (or land line) there units would not work. The one my mother had used landline or cellular. I did see one company a few years ago that used satellite phone service for theirs.

Just curious,

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There are different SPOT devices including Sat Phones as well. The simple SPOT device I'm referring to uses satelight signal to relay an SOS message to a network of emergency services and activates a homing signal to your location. The wheels are set in motion for whatever service is closest and available to respond immediately to your location.
There looks to be a model that also lets you send short text messages to loved ones for checking in and as well as still having the "panic" button feature still available.

Lol, beat me to it sennister!!
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:44 AM   #10
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OK, now you have my interest.... How does the SPOT unit communicate? All the ones I looked at use the cellular frequencies or landlines, which meant if there was no cell service (or land line) there units would not work. The one my mother had used landline or cellular. I did see one company a few years ago that used satellite phone service for theirs.

Just curious,

Don
You can read about it here.

https://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=115

Basically it is sat based. I think it is on the Global Star Commercial Sat Network which is the same system used by some sat phones. The other big player being the Iridium Network. There are different brands out there using different service backbones so get the one you like better for coverage. So in short it pulls your location via GPS and sends a periodic ping via the commercial sat network with your location. As long as the sat provider has coverage and you have a pretty good visibility of the sky it will go through. There are status lights on the box to tell you if it is connected. That is then plotted on your personal website showing your location. The more common units like my older SPOT-II which is a little bigger than a pack of cigarettes and the newer SPOT-III about the size of a deck of cards have physical buttons (4) you can press. You can preconfigure two of them to determine what they do. For mine I programmed it on the website so Message 1 sends a SMS message to my wife and parents that I am at location ____ and starting/stopping for the day. Based on time of day they can figure out if I am calling it a day and sleeping somewhere or I am hitting the road. Message 2 is a SMS message to the same people that I am OK. I hit this one periodically when I think of it. Mainly at fuel stops which is every 250 or so miles. Buy doing this I can log my fuel stops if I am in a competition and it is a good habit to be in to make sure the batteries are still working. The SPOT II uses tow AA batteries and has a better life than the SPOT III on its two AAA batteries. But they last a couple days on the more expensive Lithium AA batteries.

The remaining two messages are hard coded for roadside assistance and SOS. The SOS button is made so it is harder to press. Depending on model it is either recessed or shielded so you really have to try and press it. These are directed to a call center where they will attempt to call you (if your cell works) as well as whoever you designate. They also get a SMS message and if they can't reach anyone to validate if the button press was accidental they will dispatch assistance. Also because it is doing a constant ping while active, even if you are not able to press the button, people can see your last known location as a starting point for a search as well as your direction of travel. So leave it active all the time if you are relying on one.

One draw back is that the system is really a one way communication. It is fully sat based so you can hit the roadside assistance button but you have no way of knowing if someone is coming and when. You can't say you are out of fuel so you need a gallon of gas or have a flat tire. Also some people have hit the SOS button thinking they were in rough shape but before someone arrived they realized things were not that bad and moved on. Now police and such are searching for you but you didn't stay there. For instance someone thinks they are hypothermic in the back country at night in the rain. Well they are not going to search for you until first light but then you feel better in the morning once the sun comes out and you move on. You can hit the OK button but that may not call off the Calvary that has been dispatched to save your butt. They then spend resources which could be doing other things looking for you at your Lat/long but you are not there anymore. So if you hit that SOS button stay there until they arrive.
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:47 AM   #11
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When you have zero bars on the.cell phone and you feel unsafe or have an emergency medical issue, how do you reach out for help? My daughter recommended we get a HAM license and gear, but I'm thinking a direct satellite device. What are folks relying on these days for help when camped in zero-bar land?
I have my ham license, but honestly if you aren't within range of a cell tower, your chances of being within range of a local repeater is a lot lower as well. A lot of the repeaters are on the same tower the cell sites are using.

I'd say at least half the time, if my cell phone can't get out, my dual band radios can't either. The difference is I can throw a Jpole antenna up in a tall tree and my chances of getting out start getting a lot better. It's just not a sure thing that you'll get out.

If you get your general class license and run an HF rig in your vehicle, you can talk globally.

If you primary concern is being able to call for help, you should probably look into something like the Spot Gen 3 Satellite messenger.
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:54 AM   #12
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Lol, beat me to it sennister!!
Heh, I didn't even know I beat you to it. I was responding before reading all the messages. I then typed a better explanation for Mustang as I didn't think I covered it very well in my basic post.

I bought my SPOT II back when my motorcycle club was searching for a lost rider in Rocky Mountains. A guy on a Goldwing went missing and the family only had basic information about where he was and where he might be heading with several different roads to get there. The CEO of SPOT found out about our search and how we were using them to log where we had looked and where we hadn't. He offered a discount to us to buy the SPOT devices. basically a group buy. Turns out he missed a curve or swerved to avoid something and went down a steep embankment. A bike doesn't always leave a large sign that something went off the road. If he had a SPOT or one of the other similar devices, it would have shown what road he went on and that his signal stopped in a certain location. At least narrowing down the search from hundreds of miles of roads to cover down to a couple even if the device landed so it no longer had clear line of sight to the sky. Not saying it would have changed the end result but his family went through several weeks of not knowing.
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Old 05-30-2017, 10:10 AM   #13
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I have my ham license, but honestly if you aren't within range of a cell tower, your chances of being within range of a local repeater is a lot lower as well. A lot of the repeaters are on the same tower the cell sites are using.
Ok, now we are on to something here. bansai, you need to take up the hobby of DRONES... ahhhh, put a radio repeater on the DRONE, send it straight up about 1500 feet and you may get your HAM radio connected to a repeater, how about a cell-phone signal amp being sent up.

We may have a nitch in the market... where is my tablet (not that one) the one that uses a pencil.

Bet you are thinking about this now. Roy Braddy... your 2 cents please.

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Old 05-30-2017, 10:12 AM   #14
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I was responding before reading all the messages.
I'm guilty of this about 90% of the time. Sitting on a conference call at the moment. Reading just enough in the threads to know what's going on without making it obvious to everyone on the call I'm totally ignoring them.
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Old 05-30-2017, 10:18 AM   #15
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Ok, now we are on to something here. bansai, you need to take up the hobby of DRONES... ahhhh, put a radio repeater on the DRONE, send it straight up about 1500 feet and you may get your HAM radio connected to a repeater, how about a cell-phone signal amp being sent up.

We may have a nitch in the market... where is my tablet (not that one) the one that uses a pencil.

Bet you are thinking about this now. Roy Braddy... your 2 cents please.

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I have a test bed for this already lol.

Not sure why I posted it upside down... Anyway, I've redone the antennas on the transmitter and the receiver to get me better range. Had to register this one with the FAA. I've toyed around with the idea of using it as an aerial repeater platform, but I think I'll have to go with the much more expensive Phantom 4 for that.. Those have the battery life and stability to make this more feasible. The problem is weight.
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Old 05-30-2017, 11:17 AM   #16
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Ok, now we are on to something here. bansai, you need to take up the hobby of DRONES... ahhhh, put a radio repeater on the DRONE, send it straight up about 1500 feet and you may get your HAM radio connected to a repeater, how about a cell-phone signal amp being sent up.

We may have a nitch in the market... where is my tablet (not that one) the one that uses a pencil.

Bet you are thinking about this now. Roy Braddy... your 2 cents please.

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Just was scanning through some comments and saw my name mentioned haha...

Not a bad idea using a DRONE for radio repeater... My luck it would get shot down as soon as i got it up haha...

I have done the frequency thing of using my hand held on one band and getting to my truck where it can be repeated out on a different band for better coverage... Use to do that all the time when using talking with radio friends on 75 meters SSB... I would be sitting around the firepit at a camp site and using my truck as the 75meter ham repeater... Of course after a bit I always run down my truck battery haha...

I am amazed how the TV guys like NCIS and the like all have a button in their ear and can talk to each other anywhere in the world... Even from their skiff areas... I'm sure that idea works in reality but not as good as they put on for the TV shows...

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Old 06-04-2017, 03:53 PM   #17
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SPOT or Delorme depending on which features you want.

If you REALLY want com in out of the way places get a sat phone.

BEWARE. There are still places where they won't work. Think of anyplace where your GPS won't work.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:32 AM   #18
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Onstar!
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:42 AM   #19
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Onstar!
OnStar relies on cell towers. While it is possible that it might work in an area your cell doesn't work, that is just because you are on a different carrier. There are lots of locations in the US where there is no cell coverage with any service provider and your OnStar system would be dead in the water. The only thing OnStar does with Sats is pull your GPS location. It can't communicate over the sat networks like other devices such as SPOT.
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