Noticing a trend...

[Dustdevil]

I think it's a matter of perspective and expectations. Any product is worth what the market is willing to pay for that product, and the benefits it delivers. What the RV industry is trying to do is to balance the need for fuel efficiency and affordability, with the need for a rugged house on wheels that can hold up to the pounding of some number of miles of highway use. It also has to be manufacturable. They could build a bulletproof RV which would almost never break, come loose, or fail somehow, and it would cost $350,000 and weigh 57,000 lbs dry. It might also cost a fortune if you ever did have to work on it, because structures built like a tank often have to come halfway apart to get to the source of a problem. So, the perspective is that they actually walk a very fine line of their designs either becoming too unaffordable vs becoming too flimsy and unreliable. When they get in a hurry because they are being overwhelmed with orders and falling farther behind every day, it can affect build quality significantly. Problems just get an extra screw instead of a real fix. Damage goes unnoticed until after you receive it.

The other side of that coin is that RVs have become quite a bit more expensive than many of us can remember. Used to be, $25k was a lot for a motorhome. Now, many of them actually sell for $150-300k, and are far more sophisticated. We demand more creature comforts and gadgets. Technology advancements one year become product offerings the next. Because we demand it. We forget that we "only" paid $150k for that motorhome or 5er, and that the manufacturer and dealer are not actually in business to make a profit, they are in business to please us first, and break even or lose money next, so we don't have to pay any more for that coach than we did. Everybody wants something for nothing, even if they refuse to admit it. We want to grab as much as we can for that money, and we tend to talk ourselves into the idea that this "hobby" is really not costing us as much as it is. Our attitude often becomes that if we are investing this much money into a new product, it at least ought to be perfect in every way. In reality, manufacturing tolerances, the need for speed in assembly, mistakes, un-noticeable faults, coffee breaks, new employees barely trained, loss of experienced employees, natural disasters, changing designs and procedures, all are things that get in the way of a product that is absolutely consistently perfect from one unit to the next. Add to that the fact that any RV manufacturer relies on dozens, if not hundreds, of other manufacturers to produce and deliver a perfect product every time.

Just like the auto industry, the manufacturer is typically doing in-process inspections or testing, and a quick final test to ensure functionality. They do rely fairly heavily on their process control, and the dealer network for pointing out the hidden faults or unreliable components. Many products designed and built to be used part-time have infant mortality issues, which can only be discovered with a little actual use, by the customer. The factory, and even the dealer, cannot run your oven for three and a half hours to test longer-term reliability. Same with the furnace, faucets, AC, water pump, generator, electric brakes, etc etc. Many components are value-engineered to deliver big features at low cost, with intermittent use in mind, not full-time use as in the home or business environment.

Like a lot of other things, we get what we pay for. There are RVs designed for full-time use. Others, not so much. Our expectations going in should include a review of such things, and an honest real-world assessment as to whether that Atwood oven was meant to be used twice a day for 300 days a year. We should also keep in mind that message boards and owners' forums are going to draw the 10% of owners who are either royally pissed off or extremely happy, and not a lot of people in the 90% who are generally satisfied with their purchase. So, the perspective we can easily get is that Jayco RVs are either perfect, or they are horribly wrong and defective.

The factory warranty is supposed to take care of those unwarranted failures, through a dealer network who is often billing Jayco for the work and the parts. When Jayco begins to see their warranty costs rising, believe me they know what their build quality is without us telling them. They feel it in the bank account. And it's expensive. Doesn't always correct itself overnight, either. But you can bet they track such things, and take steps to correct when they can. Overall customer satisfaction is high for Jayco, over time. They will slip once in a while for the aforementioned reasons. But for the most part, it's a decent gamble to buy a Jayco over many others who truly are building junk. They go out of business every month, it seems. Even for a good solid manufacturer, the road can be rocky sometimes. Luck of the draw in some instances.

[bansai]

So, I bought my 'brand spanking new' TT a little over a week ago and just got home from my maiden voyage. After putting 600 miles on her over a large variety of roads, from 4000 feet to 12,000 feet elevation, here are my 'major' issues.

1. The hand crank for my wineguard antenna fell off when I tried to use it the 4th or 5th time. Cause - The set screw that holds the entire assembly together wasn't tight enough. Solution - re-tighten it with locktite.

2. The sliding door to my bedroom has a fabric strap with a button on it that is supposed to keep the door secured in the open position for travel. This strap is stapled in place with some fairly large staples which were ripped out of the wall at some point on the road. Solution - replace strap with industrial strength velcro that is screwed and glued where the original strap was.

Not so bad huh?

[norty1]

Most anything you buy, anything, that is sold at retail sells for double or more than double what it cost to manufacturer it.

Marketing costs the purchaser just like all the staples and wood they use.

Without the middle man there would not be much of an economy!

[Rustysocket]

Originally Posted by norty1

When you buy a rv, unless you have some money left over, You have a new hobby.

As stated, regular maintenance and fixing little problems before they become big problems will become a routine thing. A side benefit is you learn your equipment and know when something is not right.

Well said Norty,

After twenty plus years of RV ownership, I liken the experience to owning a home rather than being a renter with a landlord.

If you have zero interest in learning how to do some basic maintenance, electrical work, carpentry etc. You should probably skip owning an RV and either rent one when you want to go camping or stay in a hotel.

I think many people are under this impression that the RV is static and that nothing will ever change from day one. Just the simple act of driving it down the road causes things to settle and loosen. I fail to understand why people get jacked out of shape over this and cant simply pick up a small set of tools and take care of the problem when it happens rather than let things pile up.

The other thing is that this forum is not a Jayco product. This forum is composed of people who like to RV and enjoy the lifestyle it provides them. It's not a consumer protection agency for people to complain and expect anybody to give a damn. I will happily share my knowledge to help a new user learn about their rig, and try to help them fix things or get help with their dealer, but the guys who just want to come on here with three or four posts and crap in every thread they can are simply looking for attention.

I understand that as well as they are frustrated and have reached a breaking point. But what they miss is that there is nobody here who can help them unless they are willing to provide an accurate description of the problem and are willing to be rational about what is realistic and what is not.

If all you want to do is bash Jayco, or bash your dealer and are only looking to vent you won't find much anybody here will care about.

[popjim52]

Its also very difficult in this day and age to determine if the competition has hired guns to post negative things about the Jayco product to help sway buyers from continuing to buy from Jayco.
But then again I have an expensive motorcycle, and because of this some of the guys on the forum think that if one screw or bolt loosens up the owner of the motorcycle company should helicopter someone out immediately to fix the issue instead of them taking a ratchet and socket and tightening it themselves. We are living in a new age. The age of entitlement....

[Dustdevil]

Originally Posted by popjim52

Its also very difficult in this day and age to determine if the competition has hired guns to post negative things about the Jayco product to help sway buyers from continuing to buy from Jayco.
But then again I have an expensive motorcycle, and because of this some of the guys on the forum think that if one screw or bolt loosens up the owner of the motorcycle company should helicopter someone out immediately to fix the issue instead of them taking a ratchet and socket and tightening it themselves. We are living in a new age. The age of entitlement....

Probably a lot of truth to this.

Originally Posted by norty1

Most anything you buy, anything, that is sold at retail sells for double or more than double what it cost to manufacturer it.

Marketing costs the purchaser just like all the staples and wood they use.

Without the middle man there would not be much of an economy!

Most assuredly a lot of truth to this.

[eldermike]

You can find a forum for any major purchase type products and you will come away thinking they are all junk. It's the way it is since the advent of Internet forums.

[homer1959]

Originally Posted by FLHTK-JOE

I think many folks become disappointed in the quality of their RV's because they are looking at the price totally wrong. I don't have exact figures, but just based on some pricing I have seen and what a retired dealer once told me, from manufacturer to dealer there is about a 100% markup. In other words, if your RV has a MSRP of $130,000, sure the dealer can put it on "sale" for $97,500. Most people think they are getting a heck of a deal and they are getting a reduced price for sure. But in reality there is still room in the deal because the dealer probably only paid the manufacturer around $65,000 to $70,000 for that unit in the first place.


So now if you look at what the actual builder of that RV "sold" it to the dealer for maybe your expectations would not be so high for the quality. If the manufacturer can let it go for $65,000, he is still making money on building it, so there is only maybe $45,000 in material and labor involved.


So in summary when you drive off in your new RV that you got on sale for $100,000 it only cost $45,000 to produce so base your expectations on that.

So following this post, one should be happy to walk away from the dealership lot with a bill of sale showing at the bottom line 70k when knowing that the TT worth only 40 k and on top of that the same guy should lower is standard of quality since he got scr...d for 30k ! ?...well , maybe ?

[RoyBraddy]

I imagine alot of folks will pay alot of money for one of these big road trip RVs and expect them to work flawlessly.

We all know this is never the case and most of us have been around for a long time and develop a good daily maintenance routine to spot all of the basics problems before they occur.

In addition to this I am also smart enough or maybe dumb enough to have some basics PLAN Bs incorporated...

Its not fun getting stranded somewhere down the road. Its much better to get stranded at home hehe...

We have been in the camping mode from way back in the 50's so know somewhat what to expect. I was never rich enough to own one of those big road trip trailers...

I would rather be RV Camping anyway...

Roy Ken

[Kevin and Beth]

We picked up our Pinnacle from Colrain last July. Since we have used it every free minute we could, usually at least 10-15 days a month. Colrain did a great job on PDI with me, coach was set up inside, all slides out, both roof units running, TVs on, Fridge cold, ice in the icemaker, everything on and working. They spent probably over 2 hours with me going over every inch, and I still was lost when I got to the campground....Here's what "trouble" we've had in 13+ months:

Carefree awning crushed down on the dining slide first day in a rainshower, (Not Jayco or Colerain's fault, they made good and shipped out a new one, no issues.

No caulk at the bottom of the shower door track....Fixed in a couple minutes, had a tube in the toolbox on the truck.

Coax schematic was crazy, satellite wiring had a splitter, so no feed to the bedroom TV. Called Colerain, and Jayco, and got on here, got drawings, found the splitter, removed it, no problems since.

Last weekend found a drip where the screen filter is on the exit side of the water pump...tightened..

Inverter occasionally goes into E05 fault.(dirty power in the campground), power down, reset, fixed.

That's it...love the coach...year later we still made the right decision.

[ReelCool]

We have had two motorhomes and now a travel trailer. A wise older lady I know who spent a lot of time traveling the summers in her RV with her husband and tailgating at the Swamp in the fall, told me we when purchased our first used motorhome...."just expect something to go wrong before you head out on any trip, then you won't be disappointed." Some of the best laughs my husband and I have had over the years have been the things that went wrong - when we look back. And we are still laughing! I think a couple of them could topped the movie RV! BTW, I like the forums to research for my husbands ways to fix things! There is always an answer on a forum for any problem.

[FeatherFam]

My experience is that the RV industry is very poorly regulated, and they get away with some incredibly derelict and unsafe practices. You have to go into it with eyes wide open and know that you will spend a lot of time and money repairing things and rebuilding things properly. If you are not a resourceful person, you probably will not enjoy owning an RV, boat, plane, or a classic car, unless you have a bank account that allows you to pay for all of the vehicle failures, restoration, and wear and tear repairs. Well, really, add a home to that list, too. Most homes are built to fail as well.

In the case of an RV, you bought a rolling earthquake made of cheap materials that have been slapped together. Personally, I find warranties and dealers to be a huge sham (and most every repair shop). I reserve trips to a dealer (RV or Auto) for only the most critical safety and/or mechanical recalls. Otherwise, I do not want them touching my investments - been in and around the industry, been screwed numerous times, learned to take ownership of my choices to own "stuff." I can count the number of mechanics and/or technicians that I trust with our vehicles on half a hand. I definitely do not trust any manufacturer of any brand of vehicle (RV or Auto).

The key word is "resourceful." If you do not have the cash, you must learn to diagnose and repair for yourself if you want to keep your "stuff" safe, highly operational, clean, and enjoyable. For us working schmoes, owning stuff takes time, mental and physical effort, our limited finances, lots of patience, and most importantly a "can do" attitude. If that does not sound appealing and you work to get by, then you would be happier finding another place to put your time, money, and energy.

[TCNashville]

The post above sums it all up. Very well written and I agree with all of it. All the things we own I will try and fix myself in most situations. If not, there's got to be a YouTube on it.

[Rustysocket]

For the most part FeatherFans post is spot on in regards to how I see it. If you don't find a way to incorporate a little bit of maintenance into part of camping each trip you will quickly have a mess on your hands. There are very few systems on an RV that are so complex that the average Joe need be afraid, and even in the more complex situations there is enough information available on the interest that you can quickly be just as familiar as most dealer techs. With the added benefit of being vested enough to actually care that the job is performed correctly.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[norty1]

There is not much new under the sun in a rv.

If you can't figure it out then ask or look.