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07-07-2016, 04:29 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Rio Rancho
Posts: 426
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RV Death Sprial-editorial-race to the Bottom
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07-07-2016, 04:42 PM
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#2
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: CT
Posts: 96
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pretty good read right there and so true. However, we've been lucky so far, we've owned 2 new ones (not jayco) and so far the only issue we had is the hot water heater won't run on electric in our current one, only propane, other then that been lucky. (knock on wood). I have heard of horror stories of folks dropping 90K for a 5'er or 100k+ for a motor coach and use it once and then it's in the shop 11 months out of the year.
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07-07-2016, 05:11 PM
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#3
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia`s Eastern Shore
Posts: 17,091
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That`s scary stuff right there.
__________________
2017 Coachmen Catalina 283RKS
2018 Ford F250 Super Duty 6.2l CCSB
2010 Jayflight 28BHS (sold)
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07-07-2016, 05:23 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Upstate N.Y.
Posts: 488
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Excellent article with a ton of truths. Just thankful I'm on my 9th RV and hopefully my last. Hopefully, mine will be out of the shop by November *LOL*
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07-07-2016, 05:36 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Portland
Posts: 156
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I have not had problems with my X213 yet, but I made the assumption when I bought it that I would keep it five years or so, use it at about 10 times per year at 2-3 nights each outing, and that the trade-in value will be zero. Yeah, the RV manufacturers have a poor reputation.
Part of me wants to go buy a 30 year old Airstream, gut it, and build it my way with decent components and lots of love. Then keep it forever.
__________________
2021 GD Transcend 261BH
2019 F250 SRW SWB CC 6.2
Formerly: 2016 X213 & 2014 F150 CC 3.5EB
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07-07-2016, 05:43 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Newburgh
Posts: 6,307
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As a new RV'er this article would scare me to death if I wasn't mechanically inclined. I did my research and my due diligence before I purchased my TT. I have many friends who have been camping for years who all told me how cheaply these new units are made. But, I have wanted to do this for so long, I'm willing to take on some issues for the benefits this new lifestyle will provide...
__________________
2022 33RBTS
Progressive Industries EMS - Hardwired
Equalizer 4 Point WDH
2021 Ford F350 7.3
Air Lift Rear Bags w/ On Board Compressor (Pending)
2016 28BHBE - (Traded and Missed already)
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07-07-2016, 06:41 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Some place
Posts: 187
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That article is a highlight reel of what concerns me with the Jayco buyout.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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07-07-2016, 06:49 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: PNW
Posts: 5,195
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I don't know... I take the article with a grain of salt. In my opinion, it's kind of like a sensational news story that just focuses on the bad. There are many RV's, in my opinion, that don't have problems.
One thing that shows that the writer doesn't understand RV's is this paragraph:
Quote:
Earlier this year, they discovered that although their RV label says the vehicle is rated to hold 18,000 pounds, the three axles on the rig were rated for 5,200 pounds each. So, in reality, their 18,000-pound RV could only safely hold 15,600 pounds.
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The Heartland Cyclone trailer mentioned is a 5th wheel. Doesn't 25% of the weight go on the pin? If so, then the axles are (barely) adequate.
Anyway, the article brings up a lot of valid points regarding declining RV quality, but I believe that the majority are just fine for the most part. If every RV were in the shop for 90% of the time during the warranty period, you'd never see any new RV's on the road.
I do believe more are built shoddily, but not to the extent the writer seems to imply.
But still, I'm glad I have an older (2011) model Jayco. It's basically been really solid.
__________________
Bill
2011 Dodge Ram 1500 HEMI Quad Cab
2011 Jay Flight 26BH
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07-07-2016, 07:57 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Port Orchard
Posts: 2,064
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The article was written by a Negative Nelly to the extreme. Yeah, there's a lot of problems and you'd better be handy to own an RV, but all the negativity he spouts leaves me cold.
__________________
Don
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07-07-2016, 08:23 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Surprise
Posts: 2,623
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If everything said was true, no mfg would stay in business more than a few years, when warranty claims would over take any profit from selling the unit. We all know some RV's have major issues, typically human error, but, most only have small issues (again human error). Perhaps if the industry gets more automated some of these issues will go away. If floors, walls, roofs are assembled using automation, you will have a screw every 6" (or what is needed), and everyone will be in the center of the stud/joist. Every nail will be in exactly the right spot and every part cut with computer precision. Until then, we have to endure the dance. Labor is a part of why companies choose to move off shore, our labor force is not as well trained, and does not have the mind set (in many cases not all) to build a quality product. I'm sure the company wants it completed quickly, but with quality. Sometimes the employees choose quickly and if that means cutting corners, they do. Yes supervision should be better, but, if your too demanding, you have no employees, just a sad reflection of the times we live in.
All the more important to do a good PDI and to know how to look for issues before they become a problem. The water in the compartment should of been caught after the first shower or two.. Water dripping under the RV needs to be addressed.
I feel happy with my unit, and, at my age this is most likely my last, so I may be ok.
Maybe as mfg merge they will get into automated assembly of at least some components. Hopefully that may help some.
__________________
2011 Toyota Tundra double cab
2015 27RLS
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07-07-2016, 09:30 PM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Madison
Posts: 81
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I for one can't possibly imagine the Jayco buyout by Thor is good for the consumer. I bought a 2015 Jayco Precept 29UM. I have owned it for 17 months and I have 17,000 miles on it. I have had a phenomenal experience so far. I looked at Thor ACE and Forest River FR3....they were cheaply built by comparison. The fiberglass roof on my Jayco is unequaled at this price point. Jayco saved a little money in my model: They opted for a cheaper Ventline fan rather than a Fantastic fan, and a plastic toilet rather than a porcelain. But on all the features that REALLY matter for long term ownership of a motorhome, Jayco excelled above the competition. Likely, Thor will scrap the entire gas motorhome line since they have a more profitable, cheaper line of motorhomes to sell in their place. It appeared they were aiming for the travel trailers and the Entegra luxury motorhome line. I have a good friend who bought an Entegra Anthem recently to replace his Forest River Berkshire (which was always in the shop getting serviced, with some quite serious issues). It is an absolutely impressive coach. RIP Jayco. You will be sorely missed as financial engineering continues to enrich a very few at the expense of everyone else.
__________________
2015 Jayco Precept 29UM
2014 Wells Cargo Road Force 7x12 vnose
2000 Gulfstream Conquest Sport C class Chevy 454
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07-08-2016, 03:17 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Maplesville - Home Base
Posts: 3,059
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In all of these posts there was not one mention of the crappy rubber roofs most companies use since it is so cheap. Mine failed after 5 1/2 years. Water was leaking through the membrane, not the caulking the membrane. Constant caulking checking and replacement is something we should not accept. Pay more for a good roof that will last or not buy the RV. See how long it takes the manufacturers to make some changes if they aren't selling anything.
__________________
Ed
KM4STL
2006 GMC 2500HD CCSB 4x4 Duramax/Allison, Titan 52 gallon fuel tank, Prodigy Controller, B&W Companion Hitch
2010 Jayco Designer 35RLTS, Cummins/Onan RV QG 5500 EVAP, Progressive Industries EMS-PT50X, TST Systems 507 TPMS, RV Flex Armor Roof
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07-08-2016, 03:25 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mechanicsville
Posts: 1,479
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But, IMO, it's just wrong for any manufacturer to put "(barely) adequate" under a trailer. But Heartland is hardly the only manufacturer to do this.
I'm happy to see Jayco at least puts 15" wheels under the 24RBS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokerBill
The Heartland Cyclone trailer mentioned is a 5th wheel. Doesn't 25% of the weight go on the pin? If so, then the axles are (barely) adequate.
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07-08-2016, 06:58 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 3,430
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Typical media hype designed to get people worked up. And from some of the responses on this thread, it's working.
I knew how slanted this was going to be right in the beginning. "For example, a 360 Siphon is an effective $10 part that can eliminate RV odors, which people who actually use RVs know is a consistent problem." What odor problem? We've never had one. I've been frequenting RV forums since 2003, I've seen an occasional post about odor issues, but nothing I would perceive as a problem.
While I believe there is some truth to parts of the article, overall I don't believe this is anything new. RVs are built no better or worse than they have been in the past.
__________________
Chuck
2013 Jayco Jayfeather X20 E (sold)
2016 Chevy Silverado LTZ 2 Z71 Crew Cab (sold, and dearly missed)
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07-08-2016, 07:50 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Campbell Hall
Posts: 2,835
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There are many truths in that article.
However, it is not just the RV industry.
Everything has been heading down that road since the 1980's!
Cars have gotten more chincy every year. And tougher to service.
How about consumer electronics. I was trained in 1977-79 to repair televisions and other electronic equipment. Now, when a TV gets faulty, just send it out for recycling, there have been 3 major improvements since you bought it.
The biggest headache with RV's is that too many different manufacturers are involved in the making of each unit.
The name on the nose is just one of several. Who made the fridge? The water heater? The stove? The mattress? The finishes used on the cabinets? What about the Engine and chassis under a class A?
All of these companies wants to stand behind their product, but how can Atwood guarantee that Mr. or Ms. Line Worker didn't ding one of the fittings on the back of the water heater during installation. Who takes care of that annoying leak that isn't noticed until the first winterization?
As a DIY'er I'll deal with it. Up to and including cutting new threads in the water tank. But what happens when a less skilled owner takes it back to the dealer 3 times and it is still not right?
---------------
I've been dealing with Jaguar cars since E-Types were still in production. One of the biggest issues with these cars was the electrics. Jaguar was buying all of its electrical components (including the harnesses) from a company called Lucas. The original deal was that Jaguar would deal with 100% of the warrantee claims. Lucas had no reason to stand behind its products because its customer would take care of the problems. When Ford took over Jaguar, it re-negotiated the deal; Lucas had to cover the cost of the warrantee repairs to it's products. Quality of the electrics went way up because Lucas was forced to care about what is was letting out it's door.
Now how does this example apply? Can RV manufacturers agree to something like the documentation levels needed for aircraft parts or ISO 9000? Probably not.
But, if there can be some accountability at all levels of the process of building these portable and self-propelled houses, it'll be a good step in the right direction.
[/rant]
__________________
TT 2015 19RD "TheJayco"
TV 2003 F-350 "Montblanc" - Housebroken chore truck
Sitting in The Cheap Seats.
And proud of it!
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07-08-2016, 04:55 PM
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#16
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Madison
Posts: 81
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Look again.....I mentioned my fiberglass roof as the reason for purchasing my Jayco Precept over all of the other manufacturers. But after Thor sorts things out, that feature and the entire Jayco gas line will be scrapped, leaving only Winnebago to provide that feature at the next highest price point.
__________________
2015 Jayco Precept 29UM
2014 Wells Cargo Road Force 7x12 vnose
2000 Gulfstream Conquest Sport C class Chevy 454
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07-09-2016, 04:30 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Maplesville - Home Base
Posts: 3,059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cycledoc675
Look again.....I mentioned my fiberglass roof as the reason for purchasing my Jayco Precept over all of the other manufacturers. But after Thor sorts things out, that feature and the entire Jayco gas line will be scrapped, leaving only Winnebago to provide that feature at the next highest price point.
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I definitely agree on the non-rubber roof.
__________________
Ed
KM4STL
2006 GMC 2500HD CCSB 4x4 Duramax/Allison, Titan 52 gallon fuel tank, Prodigy Controller, B&W Companion Hitch
2010 Jayco Designer 35RLTS, Cummins/Onan RV QG 5500 EVAP, Progressive Industries EMS-PT50X, TST Systems 507 TPMS, RV Flex Armor Roof
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07-09-2016, 06:13 AM
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#18
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Fayette Ridges of PA, USA
Posts: 5,252
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Another reason why I'm keeping my 2000 Eagle until the wheels fall off.
__________________
MODERATOR
TV: 2009 GMC Sierra 2500HD | Crew Cab | Std. Box | 4WD | Duramax/Allison
RV: 2000 Jayco Eagle 266 | FBS | TT
PREVIOUS: 1986 Coleman Laramie pop-up -- Still in the family!!!
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07-09-2016, 10:48 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Rio Rancho
Posts: 426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppers4
The article was written by a Negative Nelly to the extreme. Yeah, there's a lot of problems and you'd better be handy to own an RV, but all the negativity he spouts leaves me cold.
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the author of the editorial runs a RV reporting business, the site is free to you and me for following the RV industry. That said he depends on advertisers to pay the bills and keep his site free for everyone to see.
He is actively involved in the RV industry daily, he is reporting what he sees and frankly is dead on with this editorial. Why would he put is livelihood on the chopping block if he wasn't passionate about what is happening in the industry.
I have followed his site for years, I don't agree with a lot of Greg's stands. However, having retired from RV sales I can identify with everything he said in this article! And yes we both own RV's!!
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07-12-2016, 11:08 PM
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#20
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokerBill
I don't know... I take the article with a grain of salt. In my opinion, it's kind of like a sensational news story that just focuses on the bad. There are many RV's, in my opinion, that don't have problems.
One thing that shows that the writer doesn't understand RV's is this paragraph:
The Heartland Cyclone trailer mentioned is a 5th wheel. Doesn't 25% of the weight go on the pin? If so, then the axles are (barely) adequate.
Anyway, the article brings up a lot of valid points regarding declining RV quality, but I believe that the majority are just fine for the most part. If every RV were in the shop for 90% of the time during the warranty period, you'd never see any new RV's on the road.
I do believe more are built shoddily, but not to the extent the writer seems to imply.
But still, I'm glad I have an older (2011) model Jayco. It's basically been really solid.
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FWIW, Greg Gerber is a full-time RVer, and has been for a while. I think it's safe to say that he knows RVs.
This being said, how much more would it =really= cost to have 6k axles under that Heartland Cyclone for a bit more safety margin? at least give the buyers the =option= to buy them if they want. Same goes for most aftermarket upgrades. One thing that I really liked about the 2015 and up Eagle HTs was that they offer the 16"/Maxxis option. IMO, it's overkill for a 10k GVW trailer, but you've at least got them offered, and at a somewhat reasonable price.
Were I a true DIYer, I'd scrap out my current FW and use the heavy pre-Lippert Zieman frame and build a whole new coach on top of it, just the way I want it. :-)
Lyle
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