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02-17-2017, 07:59 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Wheatfield
Posts: 1,088
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Surge Protector?
I was just reading another thread and have to admit my ignorance. Rather than tag onto that thread I thought I would start a new one.
We have been camping for 30+ years with only propane and no electric. Our new Jayco 2 years ago came with a genny, but last year we ran power so we are doing things different now.
Our power is OURS, we are not in a public campground. So, I have complete control over the maintenance of the line, more or less. In any event, nobody uses it but us.
So, should I add a surge protector? I don't have one on my stick built home, and the power source is from the same company, though not in the same location.
I'm not concerned with cost, but I do want to protect my investment.
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02-17-2017, 08:16 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Fortuna Foothills
Posts: 1,862
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If you get lighting in your area then its a good idea. Otherwise keep your electrical system maintain and you should be fine.
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02-17-2017, 09:52 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,650
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As TC stated the EMS is a great way to go. You may have complete control of the electrical equipment but you don't have control of the power being feed to you. Here are some highlights of what the EMS system does, they are made in the USA and have a lifetime warranty. I installed one in about 30 minutes and don't have to worry.
High & Low Voltage Protection (Low <104, High 132>)
Frequency Protection
Integrated Digital Readout
Open Ground Protection - the EMS will read an error code of E-2 and power will not be allowed to the RV.
Polarity Protection - the EMS will not allow power to the RV and the error code will read E-1.
Lost/Open Neutral Protection - the display will not light, and the EMS will not allow power to the RV.
Previous Error Indication - allows you to see the previous error and why it interrupted power.
Remote Digital Display - Shows voltage, current, frequency, error codes and previous errors.
Built-in adjustable time delays for A/C compressor - one is a 136-seconds (02:16) time delay and the other is 15 seconds.
Voltage Meter
Frequency Meter
Built-in: Surge Fault Indication and Amperage Meter
Thermally Protected
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02-17-2017, 10:05 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Gainesville
Posts: 697
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You certainly have less risk of power problems that those of us who visit public campgrounds. Campgrounds are notorious for under engineering their power systems. Most were built when the average RV pulled 30amps max. Nowdays far more rigs have 2 or 3 AC and pull 50 amps. The result is low voltage (which can severely damage equipment.)
SO when camping in public or private campgrounds I consider them a "must have".
But in your situation, if you know the voltage in your part of the world is good - then your risk is surges from lightning. Lightning can hit hundreds of yards away from you but near the power line feeding your site. That can result in some very high voltage. This can be devastating to an RV's electronics and equipment OR to those in a house. But surge supressors are only good for those "near misses". I guess you have to ask yourself what the probability is of that happening in your area vs. the cost of the surge unit.
And a Surge unit won't protect you against all lightning strikes. I know - I had a lightning strike a tree right next to my house. The tree became a million toothpicks. In my home, it blew out every single piece of electronics from TV's, Clocks, Radios, the electronic controls on the oven, microwave. It even fried all our wired phones (this was, I must admit, a few years ago.) It blew right through some very expensive surge suppressors - in fact, it blew them the hell UP - plastic flew all over the room.
The only good news was - Allstate homeowners insurance covered it all.
At my Church we had an even more interesting hit. The church has a lightning rod on the steeple. The lightning rod has this HUGE braided copper wire that comes down the side of the church and attaches to a large copper rod driven into the ground.
Shortly after the church was built, the AT&T guys came out to install the phone lines. They needed a ground for the terminal point and saw that lovely copper pipe and clamped their ground wire to it.
About 10 years later, lightning hit that steeple. It went down the side of the building (you could tell from the fried paint). The problem was, the ground didn't absorb all of it - just enough went back up the telephone ground wire. You would think that it would only short out the phone switch - NOOOOOO. It ran through the phone wires (melting most of them instantly) and fried all the telephones - some of which were found in pieces. It also ran through the modem wires (remember dial-up internet?) and fried not only the modems but the motherboards of 3 computers. BUT WAIT - that's not all - then it jumped through the printer cables between the PCs and printers and fried the printers. All of those PCs and printers were on surge suppressors - for what little good that did.
Bottom line - no matter the advertising - a close enough lightning hit is gonna getcha. Have insurance.
__________________
Buddy Ray - Atlanta
---------------
Jayco 2016 Eagle HT 26.5RLS
Ford 2016 F150 Lariat, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost
Max Tow Pkg, 36gal tank
Reese Sidewinder and Reese Titan 16k hitch
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02-17-2017, 10:30 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Fortuna Foothills
Posts: 1,862
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Buddy, I wasn't referring to a direct lightning strike, I was referring to lightning ing in the AREA. Nothing, not even lightning rods can protect you against 100K volts. Actually some lightning rods can actually attract lightning because they are a low impedance path to ground and all electricity is seeking ground. A surge suppressor with a high enough Joule rating can protect an electrical system when a strike is in the area and imparts voltage to the electrical distribution system and/or the ground. The electrical distribution system is a low impedance path and the ground is a high impedance path to a dwelling. A lightning strike to electrical distribution will likely cause damage to dwellings in the immediate area and a strike to the earth may not but in either case a TVSS or "surge suppressor" as you laymen call them is a line of defense that may well pay for itself considering the deductible on insurance claims.
Vicr
IBEW Local 46
Seattle, WA
Electrician 34 years
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02-18-2017, 12:02 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Gainesville
Posts: 697
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I know Vicr - I basically said that in my 2nd paragraph. I just like telling stories :-).
Some of them may even be true :-).
__________________
Buddy Ray - Atlanta
---------------
Jayco 2016 Eagle HT 26.5RLS
Ford 2016 F150 Lariat, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost
Max Tow Pkg, 36gal tank
Reese Sidewinder and Reese Titan 16k hitch
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02-18-2017, 07:29 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Maplesville - Home Base
Posts: 3,059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicr
If you get lighting in your area then its a good idea. Otherwise keep your electrical system maintain and you should be fine.
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I agree about lighting, but that isn't the only concern. At my home base site which is in a residential area my EMS PT50C has saved me from a failed transformer in my neighborhood which resulted in 132+ volts at my rig. Another time I was being shut down for high voltage 8-10 times a day which turned out to be a bad utility company substation switch over to their capacitor bank which is used to smooth out voltage as demand changes. This issue impacted the entire small town and the other residents didn't even know it other than more rapidly burned out light bulbs.
I will not plug in anywhere without my PT50C.
__________________
Ed
KM4STL
2006 GMC 2500HD CCSB 4x4 Duramax/Allison, Titan 52 gallon fuel tank, Prodigy Controller, B&W Companion Hitch
2010 Jayco Designer 35RLTS, Cummins/Onan RV QG 5500 EVAP, Progressive Industries EMS-PT50X, TST Systems 507 TPMS, RV Flex Armor Roof
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02-18-2017, 03:17 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Wheatfield
Posts: 1,088
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Sounds like I need one for my house too.....LOL.
Seriously, though, The trailer is only plugged in when we're there, so my liability is limited to weekends in the summer. I guess I could go outside and unplug it if a thunder storm crops up on our vacation. Never thought about it.
The electric line services a dozen or so homes on my road, so they would be at risk as well. We are the only RV - the rest are farm houses and they are spaced a mile apart.
I have read about Progressive and they look to be well thought of. I have seen recommendations for SSP-30XL as well as PT30-C. I don't want a built in model, but if I did buy a portable one, which would y'all recommend?
Thanks for all the feedback so far. This is one of the best sites I ever found....
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02-18-2017, 05:27 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Suburbs of Chicago, IL
Posts: 672
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I purchased an EMS-PT30C at the Chicago Camping and RV Show, General RV had them sale priced for $226.00, I am very relieved to have the quality protection for our new TT.
__________________
Frank
2014 Ford F150 SCab 4x4 5.0L Tuxedo Black Metallic
2017 Jay Flight 21 QB Elite
2015 Jay Series 1007 UD (sold)
"Life is so very short, eat the dessert first".
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02-18-2017, 05:38 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sparta, TN
Posts: 1,174
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Be sure you understand the difference between a surge suppressor and an EMS. Many people think they are the same.
Surge suppressors (SSP-30XL ) will not protect from low/high voltage (<104 or >132)
EMS (PT30-C) has surge suppression and low/high voltage protection.
The EMS is the way to go. You are far more likely to find low voltage conditions at campgrounds than a lightning strike.
__________________
Chuck - Sparta, TN
2012 Jay Flight 22FB, 2 x Honda EU2000i
2013 GMC Yukon XL Denali AWD
EDUCATION is what you get when you read the fine print.....
EXPERIENCE is what you get when you don't.
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02-18-2017, 06:41 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Wheatfield
Posts: 1,088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnchuck100
Be sure you understand the difference between a surge suppressor and an EMS. Many people think they are the same.
Surge suppressors (SSP-30XL ) will not protect from low/high voltage (<104 or >132)
EMS (PT30-C) has surge suppression and low/high voltage protection.
The EMS is the way to go. You are far more likely to find low voltage conditions at campgrounds than a lightning strike.
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I never go to campgrounds. When I had the electric installed the foreman from the electric company came up to our camp to check to be sure it was working OK. I used my meter and verified it was 120 volts on the nose. He said that's what he expected, and that I was lucky to be on this road because other parts of the town often had less than 120 at times.
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02-18-2017, 06:55 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,580
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We have a few radio towers at my ham radio club that get hit by lightening every week in the summer. Takes direct hits like a champ. You *Can* absolutely protect structures, and the gear within from lightening, it just takes some big money most of us will never be willing to spend.
__________________
2016 27BHS Elite
2012 F-150 EcoBoost / Max Tow (Sold)
2017 'Blue Jeans' 6.2 F-250 Lariat 4.3 gears.
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02-19-2017, 05:05 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Maplesville - Home Base
Posts: 3,059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnchuck100
Be sure you understand the difference between a surge suppressor and an EMS. Many people think they are the same.
Surge suppressors (SSP-30XL ) will not protect from low/high voltage (<104 or >132)
EMS (PT30-C) has surge suppression and low/high voltage protection.
The EMS is the way to go. You are far more likely to find low voltage conditions at campgrounds than a lightning strike.
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I agree, but if you spend enough time in campgrounds you will experience the good, the bad, and the ugly. I have been there and have the T-Shirt and was protected from all with my PT50C.
__________________
Ed
KM4STL
2006 GMC 2500HD CCSB 4x4 Duramax/Allison, Titan 52 gallon fuel tank, Prodigy Controller, B&W Companion Hitch
2010 Jayco Designer 35RLTS, Cummins/Onan RV QG 5500 EVAP, Progressive Industries EMS-PT50X, TST Systems 507 TPMS, RV Flex Armor Roof
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02-19-2017, 06:59 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 2,872
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Having one is cheap insurance. I'd buy one. You have the advantage of going with a portable and not worrying about a temporary neighbor "borrowing" yours and forgetting to return it.
The views expressed may not be mine in five minutes.
__________________
2017 JayFlight 21QB
2021 Ford F150 SCrew 3.5 Eco, 157”, 3.55, Tow Pkg
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02-21-2017, 08:03 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Wheatfield
Posts: 1,088
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Residential power can be affected by lightning strikes. I guess the potential is there for changes in voltage as well. So why aren't we worried about problems with our homes? Or, should we be? Or, are the electronics in an RV more sensitive to these problems vs. a stick built house?
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02-21-2017, 09:09 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Fortuna Foothills
Posts: 1,862
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DrywallJim, the utility companies are regulated by the government and have specifications and voltage parameters to abide by. In other words they can face fines for not delivering "good" power. The problem with campgrounds and RV parks is it's all privately maintained and ther is where the problems start if the distribution system isn't properly maintained. As far as homes go we actually face risk of bad power but the odds are much lower than a campground. For residential use ther are units called TVSS which will protect your home against damaging voltage spikes which causes the most damage. Hope this helps and did I figure your "handle" out?
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02-22-2017, 06:01 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 709
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A good nights sleep more than offsets the cost
__________________
wan-der-lust (noun) | 'wändǝr,lǝst | a strong desire for or impulse to wander or travel
wan-der-lust's YouTube Channel and Instagram
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02-22-2017, 07:46 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Wheatfield
Posts: 1,088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicr
DrywallJim, the utility companies are regulated by the government and have specifications and voltage parameters to abide by. In other words they can face fines for not delivering "good" power. The problem with campgrounds and RV parks is it's all privately maintained and ther is where the problems start if the distribution system isn't properly maintained. As far as homes go we actually face risk of bad power but the odds are much lower than a campground. For residential use ther are units called TVSS which will protect your home against damaging voltage spikes which causes the most damage. Hope this helps and did I figure your "handle" out?
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I understand about private campgrounds, but that isn't my concern since I will never be in one. My question has always been "do I need one if I'm in a well maintained private setting".
My company designs and builds process equipment and factories to manufacture products from pharmaceuticals to energy star building products. Our beginnings were in the gypsum industry, hence the handle.
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02-22-2017, 07:54 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: --
Posts: 2,392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnchuck100
Be sure you understand the difference between a surge suppressor and an EMS. Many people think they are the same.
Surge suppressors (SSP-30XL ) will not protect from low/high voltage (<104 or >132)
EMS (PT30-C) has surge suppression and low/high voltage protection.
The EMS is the way to go. You are far more likely to find low voltage conditions at campgrounds than a lightning strike.
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I'm a little OCD w/ my electricity. I use both of these units AND an Autoformer !!!
Very pricey, but I have complete piece of mind. Pedestal --> SSP-30XL --> 15' 30 Amp cord --> Autoformer (under the coach) --> 15' 30 Amp Cord --> PT30-C --> Coach.
I did this b/c the straight up surge was relatively cheap so I added it on as a way to protect my Autoformer from a surge hit.
__________________
2023 Ford F-150 XLT SCREW 3.5EB (Max Tow Pkg., Black Appearance Pkg., Bed Utility Pkg.)
1727 Payload / 4150 RAWR
On the sidelines taking it all in.
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