Unicorns and F150 w/Max Payload

[ykcamom]

Originally Posted by bansai

I have the max tow, ecoboost, 3.73 gears/ and am comfortable with my 27BHS. I thought I would have to upgrade my TT next year, but it's almost paid off, so I plan on continuing to tow with it for the next several years.

The cash I'd have to burn to upgrade to an F250 that meets my standards will be spent on paying off my camper instead. My next truck however will be a 250/2500.

I hear you! We don't have the ecoboost, but we do have a 2010 F150 with 3:73 and max tow. We don't have the payload of these newer trucks, but it does the job pulling our Whitehawk 27DSRL. We thought about upgrading to 3/4 or one ton, but they are just too pricey. (Not to mention I would then to be too tempted to buy a fifth wheel! $$$)

Maybe in a couple of years we'll upgrade the truck. But for now, it works.

[bansai]

Originally Posted by ykcamom

I hear you! We don't have the ecoboost, but we do have a 2010 F150 with 3:73 and max tow. We don't have the payload of these newer trucks, but it does the job pulling our Whitehawk 27DSRL. We thought about upgrading to 3/4 or one ton, but they are just too pricey. (Not to mention I would then to be too tempted to buy a fifth wheel! $$$)

Maybe in a couple of years we'll upgrade the truck. But for now, it works.

Small correction.. meant to say I thought I'd be upgrading my TV next year, not my camper but yeah.. I'd have to spend 75k to get the 250 I want, so trying to delay that as long as possible. Like you though, I'd probably get a 5er then too

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by bansai

I'd have to spend 75k to get the 250 I want

Wow... what kinda options are you guys looking at? You can get a diesel Ram 3/4 ton for low $40's... $75 thousand for a GAS 250???

[bansai]

Originally Posted by spoon059

Wow... what kinda options are you guys looking at? You can get a diesel Ram 3/4 ton for low $40's... $75 thousand for a GAS 250???

75K is a bit steep, was pretty much guessing, but this is close to what I'd be looking at..

2016 Ford Super Duty - Search Inventory

(assuming that link works) 68K.

Here's the window sticker - http://www.windowsticker.forddirect....2FFezA8g5QY%3D


I can get 'X-plan' pricing at Ford so I'd pay a little less than that, but still I could buy almost 3 of my campers for that so I'm holding out as long as possible. Plan for now is to pay off my camper by freeing up the 650 month I'm spending on my 150-, bank that for a couple years, then get into a 250 (or possibly a 350).. If I make that jump I'm going back to Diesel. Not difficult to get into the 70K range. Here's one closer to 80K - http://www.windowsticker.forddirect....cVH6V9abI5k%3D


You can easily get into a F250 for under 40K, here's one - http://www.windowsticker.forddirect....SY5jcidSEcE%3D

But I'd only drive an XL if it was a work truck that my company was paying for and forcing on me.

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by bansai

75K is a bit steep, was pretty much guessing, but this is close to what I'd be looking at..

2016 Ford Super Duty - Search Inventory

(assuming that link works) 68K.

Ok. So we aren't comparing an options for options F150 versus an F250, you aren't really playing fair.

#1 you are quoting MSRP, which isn't (hopefully) what anyone pays.
#2 you are comparing a GAS F150 to a DIESEL F250 (with an $8500 diesel upgrade cost)
#3 you are also specing out options that are only available on the 3/4 ton chassis, not a half ton, specs such as snow plow prep, 5th wheel prep, cab clearance lights, dual alternators, upfitter switches, etc.
#4 you are looking at a top of the line truck, yea its gonna have a high price tag!

For what its worth, a base 2017 F150 Platinum has an MSRP of $54,900 before adding any options. 2017 Ford F-150 - Build & Price

The F250 that you quoted has a base MSRP of $52,100 before adding any options.

It seems to me that price is not the issue, especially if you compared feature to feature. I would guess that some (but not all) people that are so dead set on the F150 just assume that it is cheaper than the F250, but really have no clue.

For some people, towing and payload capabilities are more important. For others, amenities are more important. I'm not going to judge at all... but if you want a lot of options, you should really consider a truck with a higher GVWR, because those options eat up weight.

Then the reality is that the F150, even with higher weight limits, is still at or near the maximum of its axle ratings. The F250, while it is rated to similar payload ratings, is nowhere near its axle ratings and is much better suited to carry the higher weights.

Look, if you are going to be purchasing a new vehicle and you have these higher towing specifications, the right vehicle is the F250 and the price difference is minimal. I realize the OP isn't going to be towing that often, but the 3/4 ton truck isn't horrible as a daily driver. Fuel mileage will be a little worse, yes, but the heavier truck will tow drastically better, the heavier truck will protect you better in a wreck and the heavier truck actually has the LOWER MSRP in this instance...

[bansai]

Originally Posted by spoon059

Ok. So we aren't comparing an options for options F150 versus an F250, you aren't really playing fair.

#1 you are quoting MSRP, which isn't (hopefully) what anyone pays.
#2 you are comparing a GAS F150 to a DIESEL F250 (with an $8500 diesel upgrade cost)
#3 you are also specing out options that are only available on the 3/4 ton chassis, not a half ton, specs such as snow plow prep, 5th wheel prep, cab clearance lights, dual alternators, upfitter switches, etc.
#4 you are looking at a top of the line truck, yea its gonna have a high price tag!

For what its worth, a base 2017 F150 Platinum has an MSRP of $54,900 before adding any options. 2017 Ford F-150 - Build & Price

The F250 that you quoted has a base MSRP of $52,100 before adding any options.

It seems to me that price is not the issue, especially if you compared feature to feature. I would guess that some (but not all) people that are so dead set on the F150 just assume that it is cheaper than the F250, but really have no clue.

For some people, towing and payload capabilities are more important. For others, amenities are more important. I'm not going to judge at all... but if you want a lot of options, you should really consider a truck with a higher GVWR, because those options eat up weight.

Then the reality is that the F150, even with higher weight limits, is still at or near the maximum of its axle ratings. The F250, while it is rated to similar payload ratings, is nowhere near its axle ratings and is much better suited to carry the higher weights.

Look, if you are going to be purchasing a new vehicle and you have these higher towing specifications, the right vehicle is the F250 and the price difference is minimal. I realize the OP isn't going to be towing that often, but the 3/4 ton truck isn't horrible as a daily driver. Fuel mileage will be a little worse, yes, but the heavier truck will tow drastically better, the heavier truck will protect you better in a wreck and the heavier truck actually has the LOWER MSRP in this instance...

All great points sir. I have the luxury of keeping my very capable 150 until I'm ready to drop serious coin on my next truck. I paid 40K for my 150.. I could probably get into a 250 that meets my minimum requirements for around 50, out the door. The way I see it, there's no reason for me to compromise on features, motor, etc being as happy as I am with my current TV. The comparison, definitely wasn't fair Didn't intend to hijack the post. The whole thread / topic always gets me building out my perfect truck on ford.com.

Just found out on Friday that my wife lost her job, so it will probably be 2020 at the earliest now before I upgrade.

[spoon059]

By all means, if your current truck meets your needs it is a great truck to have! For the OP looking to purchase a new vehicle for his needs, I would strongly encourage him (or anyone else in his shoes) to at least consider/drive/price out the 3/4 or 1 ton truck and see how it compares to the F150. Option for option, there is very little price difference between the 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks, but the 3/4 ton is just so much more capable and provides so much better towing at those weights.

Sorry to hear about your wife, hopefully she finds new employment soon.

[2nOZ]

Originally Posted by TommyAjax

Which GVWR package did you get? According to the brochure, the payloads are as follows:

Setup = 3.5l EcoBoost, 4x4, SuperCab, 163" Wheelbase
7,050 lbs GVWR = 1,990 lbs payload
7,600 lbs GVWR = 2,480 lbs payload
7,850 lbs GVWR = 2,710 lbs payload

Setup = 3.5l EcoBoost, 4x4, SuperCrew, 156" Wheelbase
7,050 lbs GVWR = 2,060 lbs payload
7,600 lbs GVWR = 2,420 lbs payload
7,850 lbs GVWR = 2,650 lbs payload

These numbers supposedly include 150 lbs for the driver...so if you weigh 230 lbs like me, take 80 lbs away right off the top. Also deduct any options that add weight (ie. tonneau covers, side steps, winches, etc), and then also the passenger weights, and "junk" in the truck (tow straps, tools, tarps, blankets, jumper cables, etc)

I have learned through my purchase of the Ram 1500, and researching the F150, the devil is in the details...

We have the 7000 lb GVWR package. The door jam sticker indicates 1825 lbs useful load. I'm assuming it is due to the 36 gallon fuel tank.

[Big1]

Well if you get the 4.10 gears in the 6.4L you can tow up to 15,650 lbs but you might have to order it those.

[ecoboosteagle]

I tow the same trailer you are considering (32tsbh 2015) with 2012 ecoboost lariat max tow crew cab. I have done all the cat scale weights. I am at the limit of my rear axle weights and payload but well with in my GCWR. However you would never know it as it tows so comfortably. With the 2015 F150 and up you should be with in limits with that extra 700lbs towing capacity.

FYI your trailer reasonably loaded will have a tongue weight close to 1200lbs. (950 lbs on brochure I believe...)

Good wdh make a big difference. I use equal-I-zer 1400lbs bars.

[Ottawasteve]

The Unicorn is the F250 that costs the same as a similarly equipped F150. I priced similarly equipped 2016 F250 and F150 with HD Payload and the price difference was about $CAN6,0000 MSRP. While MSRP should not be the out-the door price, presumably there deeper discounts off the high volume F150 than the F250. If you are comparing different model years, it is apples to oranges.

Finding a 2015 F150 with the HD Payload package will be near impossible because only a handful were produced during that year due to he re-tooling for the aluminum cabs. This is why many have commented on the unavailability of the package. For other years, you have to look a little harder because it is only a very small minority of F150's that tow heavy enough to need the HD Payload package. If you are not in this small minority it would be a waste of $$ to spend the extra $1500 on the package and get decreased gas mileage unloaded (due to the 3.73 rear end) and a harsher unloaded ride than a similarly equipped non HDPP F150. My best friend found his 2014 HDPP XL on a lot at year end and got a great deal. When I ordered my truck at model year end, dealer could not even find a Max-Tow equipped truck within the city but rather than settle for what was on the lot, I am glad I waited a few weeks for delivery of my Max-Tow equipped F150 from a dealer outside the city.

For safe towing you have to look carefully at the manufacturer's specs rather than whether it has a 250/2500 or 150/1500 badge on the side. For example, many diesel 250/2500's will have less payload than even non HD Payload F150's which will cause you similar weight concerns you are facing now. There are many internet "experts" that will tell you that you can ignore the manufacturer weight ratings on 250/2500's, with lengthy explanations as why this is okay, just as there are many 150/1500 owners that will attest that they have towed for years exceeding manufacturer's ratings with no problems. The fact is, a truck with double the payload will have a harsher ride and be more stable for towing for a number of reasons.

IMHO, if you are towing heavy enough to require a 2500/3500/250/350 you need a diesel if you are going to be towing more than a couple of times a year. If anybody believes that 420 ft/lbs of high rpm torque will tow just as well as 925 ft/lbs of diesel torque, I have some ocean front property in Kansas for sale. With the 470 ft/lbs of low end torque of the new Ecoboost, there is no advantage to the gas powered 250/2500's other than 40% more gas station reward points every year. When comparing, consider adding 40% to your annual fuel bill with the 6.x gas motors in a 250/2500. Towing at 80% capacity of an F250 is no safer or less dangerous than towing at 80% capacity of an F150 with a good quality hitch. If you want the safest TV for the TT you are considering, get a diesel 350/3500 DRW as you will have a far greater margin of safety than a 3/4 ton or a half-ton.

What was accepted as a given 10 years ago in the 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton comparison no longer holds true. When comparing truck brands, definitely look into reliability and crash test ratings as not all half-tons are the same !

[qstott]

I'm not sure I own a unicorn, but I do own a 2015 F150 with the max trailer tow package. The truck is a crew cab 4X4 with 6.5 ft bed. The option on the sticker was for the 7050# gvwr package, max trailer tow package, 3.55 electronic lock rear axle. It gets 9 mpg while towing my 2016 28rls. My previous vehicle was a 2003 F350 4X4 supercab 8 ft bed.

The door sticker with factory tires says my weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 1665 lbs. I did take the factory tires off and replace them with load range e BFGs.

This is a Lariat and is a very nice truck. Having said that, if I have an offer to buy it, I'll sell it and get a new Super Duty in a second.

There is plenty of power, but I just don't feel as comfortable towing with the 150 as I did with the 350.

[TommyAjax]

The unicorn is the Heavy Duty Payload, not the max tow package. If your F150 has a 7,850# GVWR, it is the Heavy Duty Payload.

The Heavy Duty Payload is only available on select trims and engine combinations on the F150 - for 2016 it was only availalble on the XL, XLT (300A or 301A trim), and the Lariat (only 500A trim). The Ford Build and Price website makes it tough to find it as an option as you have to click the correct axle ratio with the right engine combo to the the Heavy Duty Payload to even appear.

[RPreeb]

Originally Posted by TommyAjax

The unicorn is the Heavy Duty Payload, not the max tow package. If your F150 has a 7,850# GVWR, it is the Heavy Duty Payload.

The Heavy Duty Payload is only available on select trims and engine combinations on the F150 - for 2016 it was only availalble on the XL, XLT (300A or 301A trim), and the Lariat (only 500A trim). The Ford Build and Price website makes it tough to find it as an option as you have to click the correct axle ratio with the right engine combo to the the Heavy Duty Payload to even appear.

I don't quite understand the numbers then. If he has the HD payload, why would my F-150 XLT have a bigger cargo capacity? 1665 isn't that much. Mine is 1777, and I'm virtually certain that it does not have the HD payload (I never say the window sticker, even though I bought the truck new). I realize that the numbers change depending on the added weight of various options, but he should still be able to carry more than I can.

[TommyAjax]

Originally Posted by RPreeb

I don't quite understand the numbers then. If he has the HD payload, why would my F-150 XLT have a bigger cargo capacity? 1665 isn't that much. Mine is 1777, and I'm virtually certain that it does not have the HD payload (I never say the window sticker, even though I bought the truck new). I realize that the numbers change depending on the added weight of various options, but he should still be able to carry more than I can.

I don't understand your question? There are two separate items in play - the payload capacity of the truck (what it can carry as payload including all passengers, cargo, options, and trailer tongue weight ie. 1665 lbs) - and the towing capacity (the weight that it can pull and stop in addition to its own weight - ie 12,000 lbs). An XLT sometimes has fewer options than a Lariat.

The brochure weight of the truck configuration (ie. Crew Cab, 3.5l, 157 WB) shows the payload of a base model of that configuration...then you have to start deducting the weight of options (ie. moonroof, side steps, leather seats, cd player, etc) to get to the sticker weight. Also remember any aftermarket options/accessories (ie. tonneau cover, WDH) which all count against the available payload.

You can do a Google search for "ford fleet options weight" and take a look for a PDF of 2016 weights by configuration and model.

[RPreeb]

Originally Posted by TommyAjax

I don't understand your question? There are two separate items in play - the payload capacity of the truck (what it can carry as payload including all passengers, cargo, options, and trailer tongue weight ie. 1665 lbs) - and the towing capacity (the weight that it can pull and stop in addition to its own weight - ie 12,000 lbs). An XLT sometimes has fewer options than a Lariat.

The brochure weight of the truck configuration (ie. Crew Cab, 3.5l, 157 WB) shows the payload of a base model of that configuration...then you have to start deducting the weight of options (ie. moonroof, side steps, leather seats, cd player, etc) to get to the sticker weight. Also remember any aftermarket options/accessories (ie. tonneau cover, WDH) which all count against the available payload.

You can do a Google search for "ford fleet options weight" and take a look for a PDF of 2016 weights by configuration and model.

You said that you thought he had the HD payload package, and I don't see how that can be. All I'm doing is comparing his sticker CC to mine. My CC is 100 lbs more than his and I'm fairly sure that I don't have the HD package. Your first post talks about 2500 lbs of payload, and he isn't even close to that.

[qstott]

Mine has the 7050lb gvwr option, not the 7850 lb HD payload. It is a 3.5 ecoboost and also is 4X4 with 36 gal tank, and other weighty options.

[Atlee]

I have the older steel F150, a 2014 model. It has the Max Tow & Heavy Duty Pkg. It's the XLT model, 4x4. Ft Axle = 4050#, Rear Axle = 4800#, GVWR = 8200#, GCWR = 17,100#, CC = 2,286#. It has a wheel base of 163" and an 8' box. It came with OEM LT245/75R17 tires and 7 lug Alum Alloy wheels.

It took my dealer/salesman a while to find one. Weren't any in Virginia. He found 5 up in Pennsylvania.

[bzeller]

I know this has mostly been a Ford centric thread but there are other options out there such as Nissan's Titan XD in either gas or diesel that will tow more comfortably than any half-ton yet cost about the same as the half-ton, even in diesel form.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TommyAjax]

Originally Posted by bzeller

I know this has mostly been a Ford centric thread but there are other options out there such as Nissan's Titan XD in either gas or diesel that will tow more comfortably than any half-ton yet cost about the same as the half-ton, even in diesel form.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The brochure for the Titan XD shows a maximum payload of 2,000 lbs. The regular Titan at 1620 lbs.

The Ford F150 with the Heavy Duty payload is up to 3000 lbs payload depending on cab, 4wd vs 2wd, and engine combo...