Don't trust sales people when your a newbie...

[Dropnaduece]

I got totally screwed when buying my WH25BHS. Buyer beware but this was my first TT and I just bought a 07 Chevy Tahoe and the next day wife and headed to buy a trailer that we were looking at a show. Something small and lightweight for our first TT. However the salesman showed me the WH and said the Jay Feather Lites were junk but when he said the dry weight was 6115 on the WH I asked for the manager to look at my vehicle cause we fell in love with 2016 WH. He said no problem! Buy the trailer your is perfect to tow that trailer, so my mistake was believing him. We signed some prelim papers and came back a week later for the PDI. I asked for some extras to be put on the trailer and the night before the PDI I dropped off the Tahoe for the trailer brake install they showed me the trailer cause I was excited. I said where is the rear hitch and stuff...oops we forgot to put it on. They had all week to do this stuff!! Either way they got it all done in the morning just before the PDI. Before signing papers I asked are you sure my car is good and I will be safe with a family of four and a dog? Oh no problem the manager said. Well after signing the papers they had the car ready to hook up. The tech guy showed me how to use the new R-3 WD hitch and what he said freaked me out. It was hard to get this to level out and his face told me everything. I could tell he wanted to tell me I was screwed it the place from what I found out now is a shady place both in sales and service to the point it's been 3 months and I'm dealing with Jayco about all this and other things that happened during my first bring it back when you find stuff to fix. They damage my trailer severely. Anyways he hooks it up and I drive off already feeling like I'm white knuckling it and I have over an hour drive home on a pretty flat drive on I-5. Well it was the drive from hell but I have ever towed anything bigger than a ski boat and that was with f-150. So I bring it home and of course I had to sleep in it in my driveway. Sleep I didn't get cause I was up all night reading how screwed I was cause my car should never be towing a so much weight and I have it even put water or dish in the the trailer let alone my family in the car. Well in a panick I drive back to the car dealership where I just bought the Tahoe 10 days ago and the said well your screwed. Not wanting to believe anyone at all now I called the Jayco dealer manager in tears telling him everyone says I'm screwed and putting my family in danger towing the TT with the Tahoe. He said your fine and don't worry about it and I said are you telling me the truth...? Oh yes you will be fine. So I didn't know what to do, I went back home backed the car up and began to hook up to tow around town so see if I felt safe or if I was just overreacting. Just before I could get all hooked up my neighbor ran over and not to say nice trailer but to ask where are you going with it cause we have big passes up here in the NW. I said just around town. He said well be careful and if you ever think your going camping over the pass I will give you my number so you can call me when you overheat or the tranny blows up. He is a tug boat mechanic and has been around the block a few times. I believe him and he confirmed my fears. He don't pull this until you can find a truck that has the towing capacity for the TT. Well I drove back to the car dealership just after only 10 days of having the Tahoe and just buying a 30k TT. I took a 4K loss on a trade in for a 2013 F-150 Eco boost with HD and max tow package. They let me take it first before buying it and I hooked it up to the WH and pulled it around like it was nothing. So I bought the truck...a certified pre-owned. Long story it was a lemon and in the shop 4 times in one month. I thought my life was in hell over this TT. But the CR dealership unlike the Jayco dealer took the truck back and gave me all my money back. But I still needed a truck so I bought the 2016 Eco boost with HD max tow fully loaded. Something I never set out to do from the beginning which is major debt. Originally I want to buy a MH but the price scared me away but after this mess I'm into all this around 90k and tons of down payments and credit pulls. Not a happy buying experience at ALL. I told the Jayco dealer why happened they didn't care and all they said was "I can send you the paper you signed saying you agreed to something about the risk of tow vehicles" I said whatever I signed a lot of papers that day and I know at the point of sale a week earlier the manger told after looking at my car that I would be fine and safe. He didn't mention swaying all over the road and burning up my car, so I trusted that and bought the trailer. I didn't sign a form after he said that looking back I wish I did or did more research and not trusting someone with my and my families lives. In the end I got a really nice truck and I love my trailer and fortunately I can afford what happened to me but u went way out of my budget I gave my self for my first TT. I just can't believe that Jayco dealer can get away with crap like that. I went to write a review and I found endless stories that were similar to mine with the sales and service. Never will I ever go back to RV Supercenter in Kent WA. I luckily have another Jayco dealer just north of me call Blade RV and when I visited them they were so nice and upfront with me and he is helping me fix the mess I'm in with some of the fixes that the other service guy told me "worry about them another time" why does that mean I told him. Whatever. Sorry for the long rant...I love my 25BHS WH and I have had lots of fun this summer but it came with a hefty price and unneeded stress.

Tow safe - I have seen some crazy set ups going down the road. I have done more research so now I feel like a tow engineer...lol. I don't like passing a vehicle popping a wheelie down the freeway.

May all your trips be blessed with fun memories!

[ecksdude]

Wow. That's quite a story. I'm sorry you had so much trouble with this. Wish I could say it was an unusual story, but I don't think it is.

When I was looking at trailers before buying the salesman tried to get me pointed toward the 1/2 ton 5th wheels. I told him a 1500lb pin weight would easily put my truck over payload once we were all loaded up. He acted like I was crazy, so I showed him the numbers.

I think a lot of rv salesmen are simply clueless, and many others are downright dishonest.

It's only slightly different in the auto industry. Here's an experiment: go to every truck dealer in your area and ask them to explain the difference between a 2500 and a 3500. I found only one who knew.

[Crabman]

Unfortunately we hear many stories like this. The only answer seems to be that everyone must do their own due diligence when deciding what their TV can safely and within the limits tow. You cannot rely on the salesman even though first time buyers understandably believe they can and should be able to.

[Dropnaduece]

Yup - like I said I'm a towing engineer now when it comes to all GCWR, tongue weight, GAWR, ect. Just like car manufacturer tells you can tow x amount but that's with an empty truck, one person, and a full tank of gas. Never new that either but I found a real good calculator out there when you plug I the info it gives you a true towing rating -20% for safety and well if you are well under it makes the drive so nice. Didn't realize there was so much involved when join the TT world but I know and when the upgrades come I will be an expert

[Marcm157]

I am sorry for what you went through but in the end as with most things in life, we are responsible for our own actions. Gone are the days where we could rely on honest sales people. I don't mean to condemn an entire group of people but many are just out for the sale.

Before committing to investing large sums of money into a particular product it's always a good idea to do your own research and make an informed decision. You are not alone, sadly many others have followed that same path.

Glad you came out OK in the end. Put this whole experience behind you and go enjoy the trailer and make some memories...

[abarkl]

My brother (salesmen), lawyers, and politicians, when their mouths are open they are lying.

[ecksdude]

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!".

- Upton Sinclair

[glsimms]

Originally Posted by Dropnaduece

Tow safe - I have seen some crazy set ups going down the road. I have done more research so now I feel like a tow engineer...lol. I don't like passing a vehicle popping a wheelie down the freeway.

This paragraph says it all. Sorry you had to learn the hard (and expensive) way.

Kinda like seeing a doctor, it's a good idea to get a second opinion!

[Murff]

Wow! That is quite the story. I didn't realize that Valley RV had gotten that bad! I had a previous trailer serviced there and felt they may have pulled a fast one but tried to give them the benefit of the doubt. They are very close to where we reside but didn't have the White Hawk we wanted in stock, so we bought at Blade.

Carl in the service department is a great manager and does fantastic work, whether warranty or just doing service. You will find Blade a good place fir service.

Murff

[Dropnaduece]

Yea I'm working with Carl and he has been great so far. It's worth the drive to mount Vernon to get service from someone who doesn't give you a line of BS. You can tell he is one of the few good old timers that enjoys helping people.

[JohnWedell]

They make you sign a paper that you take responsibility for the setup, how about them signing a paper with you that they also take responsibility selling it to you knowing your tow vehicle capability.

[need-a-vacation]

Welcome and congrats on the new rig!!!

As mentioned, a lot of salespeople either don't have a clue or just don't care in regards to making sure the tv and tt are a good match. And so you know, it isn't just that Jayco dealer. It is possibly at any car or trailer dealer.

Enjoy the rig!!!

[Dropnaduece]

Yup in the end I can't complain with the set up I have now and the stress is gone. My family and I have been making great memories all summer long!

[nwminnesota]

Wow! A least you did the right thing and bought a better tow vehicle. My neighbor almost went through the same thing but he came over and started asking about tow vehicles. Got him set up pretty nice. Unfortunately these salesmen just try making a sale. Don't feel too bad your not the only one this has happened too. Enjoy your new rig!

[BuddyRay]

We are such a litigious society today. But sometimes there are good reasons for courts.
I can't help feeling that sooner or later someone is going to die or be seriously injured leaving a dealership with a seriously underrated tow vehicle. And a personal injury attorney is going to take that dealer for a huge award no matter what the customer signed- because the dealership was representing itself as the "experts " and knew the customer was clueless.
And once that happens once, the insurance companies that underwrite RV dealers are going to drop all kinds of paperwork and training requirements on dealers. And it can't happen too soon. It's just sad that some family will get hurt or die in the process.


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[ykcamom]

Wow. That is quite the story. I'm sorry you had to go through this. At least you now have a vehicle that can safely tow your new WH.

I consider myself lucky that I am a bit of a research freak because I stumbled upon this site and did alot of reading about towing and capacities. It really helped us to stay away from the "I'll tell you whatever I need to in order to get you to buy" salespeople.

[clubhouse]

I'm so sorry that you had to learn this the hard way and didn't have a truly consultative selling experience. I agree that dealership and sales rep should be ashamed of themselves. In a world with record setting RV sales figures every quarter they aren't hard to sell, so it shouldn't be necessary to mislead a buyer.

But for everyone to condem sales people as a whole is total BS.

I'm a Sales Director for a medical devices and capital equipment OEM. Before becoming the sales leader, I sold vascular stints and image guided therapy products. I have been in the Cath Lab for hundreds of cases. I have made a great living as a sales rep --- NOT ONE TIME did I ever not have the same goal as the doctors. We all wanted that patient to get up and resume life. Everyone in that OR or Cath Lab had incomes dependent on the procedure or number of proceedures performed, but never did that interfere with what therapy and treatment was prescribed.

Saying ones income being dependent on what they sell is a conflict of interest isn't always the case. Nothing proves that more than Medicine.

[Dropnaduece]

Well I have 3 stints at the age of 39 after having a plaque rupture which they call the "widow maker". Thanks to the best EMT's ever they kept me alive for just enough time for the hospital to do there work. Miracles happen everyday and I'm living proof. Your right not all sales people are bad they just have a bad rap cause of people like the ones I dealt with. I was in sales for 10 years and I know the feeling of wanting to make a sale so I can put food on the table but my integrity is too strong to lead someone down a path that, if I know is not good without telling them my professional opinion...then after that I left the decision up to the consumer. What I learned in sales is that there are sales people who don't know anything and ones that actually care and are professionals at what they do so they can give good advice and if you don't know the answer you find it, not give somone a line of crap so that you put someone in harms way, no matter what the person is selling. But in the end I wish I would of came across this forum before I made my purchase. Although I have unique story of a horrible buying experience, it led to where I am today with an awesome WH and a great truck. Maybe if all this didn't happen I would of bought a pop up trailer wishing I had something bigger when I see all the people enjoying there home on wheels. FYI - nothing against all those who own a pop up trailer cause my friend and cousin have one and they love theirs. But how dare a person put my family in danger when I call the sales manager in tears the next day after brining my trailer home in a car that I had to white knuckle all the way home to find out from everyone but him that I made a mistake. Then they completely shunned me when I showed up with my trailer in a new truck to pay them $600 to install a topper on my slide. I walked by the sales guy and he wouldn't even make eye contact with me and the sales manager didn't even show his face . Also when I pulled up to the service department the service manager who knew nothing of my problems cause I never said a word to him about my situation came out and greeted me with "your Tahoe is rated at 7200lbs and he pointed at the yellow sticker telling me it only weighs 6113lbs". So word got around that they screwed up and tried to defend it even though I never even got all mad about it to them personally. I asked the service manager after he said that "would you load up your family and the trailer and pull it back and forth over mountain passes?" He didn't say a single word to me cause he knew just like everyone there all the way to the guy who did my PDI. So from reviews that I read after the sale have been similar to mine shows that the dealership has a an integrity problem and bad leadership. I wrote a bad review cause if my experience and now they won't help me at all. And after all what happened to me I still called them to ask for help cause my USB plug broke they said they were busy but I could swing by and drop it off and it would take two weeks before I would get it back over a PLUG. I ended up calling another RV place but they said they couldn't help me cause they didn't deal with Jayco but they referred me to Blade RV. So I called them and they said easy fix you don't even have to bring the trailer in just swing by and pick up the plug if you want to do the install yourself to save me the trouble of hooking up and driving 45 mins to there shop. That is good service! I didn't even buy the trailer there and they are willing to help without a bunch of attitudes and ego. I'm just glad there was another place I could go cause there are only 2 Jayco dealers in Western WA.

Happy trails and by no means this was ever meant to dog on sales people in general. RV Supercenter is trained to not care cause it flows from the sale all the way through there service department which leads me to believe there is bad leadership. I run a company and if we did business like that we would be out of business or eventually develop a bad reputation which this place is doing for them and the Jayco name.

The purpose of this post is to help bring awareness to the people who have never bought a TT and for those who live in Western WA who are thinking of buying a Jayco product to be aware cause we only have 2 choices of dealerships on this side of the mountains.

May the Jayco family trailer on to wonderful memories and amazing scenery cause there is so much to see and places I want to be...journey on

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by clubhouse

I'm so sorry that you had to learn this the hard way and didn't have a truly consultative selling experience. I agree that dealership and sales rep should be ashamed of themselves. In a world with record setting RV sales figures every quarter they aren't hard to sell, so it shouldn't be necessary to mislead a buyer.

But for everyone to condem sales people as a whole is total BS.

I'm a Sales Director for a medical devices and capital equipment OEM. Before becoming the sales leader, I sold vascular stints and image guided therapy products. I have been in the Cath Lab for hundreds of cases. I have made a great living as a sales rep --- NOT ONE TIME did I ever not have the same goal as the doctors. We all wanted that patient to get up and resume life. Everyone in that OR or Cath Lab had incomes dependent on the procedure or number of proceedures performed, but never did that interfere with what therapy and treatment was prescribed.

Saying ones income being dependent on what they sell is a conflict of interest isn't always the case. Nothing proves that more than Medicine.

Sorry, but my experiences with ignorant or unscrupulous sales people has given me plenty of cause to never trust them. You may be honest and know your products but the majority I have dealt with were not and did not. I trust a salespeople as far as I can throw them (I'm in my upper 60s and handicapped, to give you an idea how far I can throw them).

[Marcm157]

Originally Posted by clubhouse

I'm so sorry that you had to learn this the hard way and didn't have a truly consultative selling experience. I agree that dealership and sales rep should be ashamed of themselves. In a world with record setting RV sales figures every quarter they aren't hard to sell, so it shouldn't be necessary to mislead a buyer.

But for everyone to condem sales people as a whole is total BS.

I'm a Sales Director for a medical devices and capital equipment OEM. Before becoming the sales leader, I sold vascular stints and image guided therapy products. I have been in the Cath Lab for hundreds of cases. I have made a great living as a sales rep --- NOT ONE TIME did I ever not have the same goal as the doctors. We all wanted that patient to get up and resume life. Everyone in that OR or Cath Lab had incomes dependent on the procedure or number of proceedures performed, but never did that interfere with what therapy and treatment was prescribed.

Saying ones income being dependent on what they sell is a conflict of interest isn't always the case. Nothing proves that more than Medicine.

There is a huge difference between a salesman selling a specific medical product to doctors and the car / rv sales force.

Unfortunately, there are many in this field that live up to the "Sleazy used car salesman" stereotype. They prey on the uniformed and unprepared population. There is even training that teaches them how to capitalize on a buyers inexperience. The blame needs to be shared to some degree because as a consumer, you should educate yourself prior to entering a car or RV dealership knowing it's a shark tank and you are the chum...