Payload

[Rocky3204]

I have done a ton of research in purchasing my truck with the anticipation of upgrading our tt to a 5th wheel. I went with a 2016 2500 ram megacab 6.4L with the 4.10 rear gear axle ratio with the assumption that my pay load was 2910lbs. Told the wife to look for 5th wheel with a dry weight not over 10,000lbs. She found a jayco listed at 9635lbs dry weight which would have my pin weight at 1927lbs given me over 1000lbs for family of 4 plus 2 dogs and some stuff inside truck including 5w mount. I just found out after looking at truck door jam that my cargo capacity is listed as 2648lbs, I guess that is payload and the extras I have in my truck took away from the payload... My front gawr is 6000, my rear gawr is 6500, my gcwr is 22800lbs and the maximum trailer weight is 11950lbs.. My truck is no more than 8000lbs. so my question is.... will I be fine with this set up so close to my max payload?

[sailor]

You will probably be over. The actual loaded pin weight will probably 15-20% higher that the published weight. My trailer's published pin weight is 2525 lbs. The actual weight is 3025 lbs. The same scenario applies to the trailer weight. The published weight for our trailer is 10445 lbs. The actual loaded weight is 13825 lbs.

[bansai]

Agree with sailor, and would just add that when shopping for campers, using the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of the camper instead of it's 'dry weight' is a valuable exercise. Do you know the GVWR of the camper?

From the numbers you posted, 20% of the dry weight of the camper was used to calculate the dry pin weight.

Math -
1927 is 20% of 9635


Using the same logic, determine what your pin weight would be using the GVWR of your camper instead of the dry weight. This will give you a range of weights where you can expect your camper to be at, obviously depending on how much and how well you load it. If the upper end of that calculation puts you over your payload (after also factoring in your passengers and gear of course) You at least have the numbers in hand to make a more accurate estimation. I also think you'll probably be over.

For example, if your GVWR on the 5er is 11500 pounds. Your pin weight would then be 2300 lbs, properly loaded, leaving you approximately 350 lbs of payload for everything in the truck.

Like me, you can probably justify being this close to your limits by telling yourself you will never load your camper to its GVWR. Also like me, you'll probably be buying a new truck within a year

Don't forget to include the weight of your hitch and anything else you've added to the truck since you bought it too. Just my hitch weighs 100 lbs.

[troutslayer]

Originally Posted by Rocky3204

given me over 1000lbs for family of 4 plus 2 dogs and some stuff inside truck including 5w mount.

Plus weight of some of the "stuff" you put in the 5th wheel forward of the 5er axles. My guess is that you will be over your pin weight. Will you be fine? That's a question only you can answer because some will say yes and some will say no. On another sort of related thing you should check is what is the CCC. Some of the 5ers being put out now will not carry as much weight as a family of 4 will put in them.

[Rudee]

The GCCC is 2315.

[Rudee]

The GVWR is 11,950 lbs
The pin weight is 1,795 lbs
(according to the paperwork)

[bansai]

Originally Posted by Rudee

The GVWR is 11,950 lbs
The pin weight is 1,795 lbs
(according to the paperwork)

Did you create a new account on the forum? The OP had a different screen name but your location is the same so I'm guessing it's still you?

and your pin weight went down from the original post which said 1927lbs dry?

Anyway, if the GVWR of the camper is 11950 lbs, as stated, a 20% pin weight would put your loaded pin weight right around 2390 lbs. You might not ever load your camper that heavy, but it's rated to handle that so it's good to know what your pin weight looks like under that scenario.

For me, I would want more payload than what was stated as being available in the original post.

A properly loaded travel trailer you typically have no more than 15 % of the weight on the tongue so you can generally tow a heavier TT than 5er given the same truck.

[Rocky3204]

@Bansai
Lol, no, my wife made an account under rudee...

[Rudee]

I had tried to add a signature at the end sorry for the confusion. This is Rocky3024's wife.
I wanted to add the numbers in for him.
I put down the printed weights from the paperwork. We have been told that how we load the fifth wheel will effect the pin weight. Since we will be so close to our payload if we put weight in the back of the 5er it will take some weight off the pin. I don't know if we should count on that or not. We have been pulling a TT for a while now and we are very careful how we load it and distribute the weight. We know how we pack the TT and the basic "stuff" we put it in and the truck. Figuring out our pay load we are figuring our kids grown (not the little kids they are now). We really like the fifth wheel we found and wish there was a little more wiggle room, but there is nothing else on the market like it. But we are open too all advise and don't want to commit to a set up that is highly advised against.

[bansai]

Originally Posted by Rocky3204

@Bansai
Lol, no, my wife made an account under rudee...

Understood
I should get my wife on here one of these days.

Anyways, let us know (either of you ) if you have more questions. I don't have all the answers by any means, but will give my 2 cents as long as it's somewhat useful. Since your truck is so new, I'm guessing you want to keep it around for a while. Personally, I would be looking at a lighter 5er. This, coming from a guy that is towing near his own limits, so take it for what it's worth

[Rudee]

Thanks bansai for your 2 cents. We have been towing at our max limit with our old truck (Ram 1500) and tt. Thankfully without any problems.

There are no problems now with our current truck and tt. The unit we are planning on buying isn't scheduled to be built for a while so we will still get some camping in with our way under pay load, towing capacity and hitch weight.

[Subaru297]

I am admittedly a member of the weight police, but considering that most if not all 3/4 tons are almost identical to its comparable 1 ton other than suspension in most cases I would not feel uncomfortable towing right at the limits of a 3/4 ton class pickup. Add some airbags to reduce the sag and see how it tows. It "should" be comparable to a 1 ton......

Maybe that is bad advice though

9635lbs dry weight, add 1000lbs of your stuff, multiply by 20% and you are at....

2127lbs leaving you with 521lbs of payload for passengers and a hitch. I wouldn't sweat being a couple hundred pounds over in a 3/4 ton truck.

Some 3/4 ton trucks are identical to 1 tons but are kept under a specific GVWR only for licensing/insurance purposes. No idea if that applies to Ram's though.

Cheers

[bansai]

Originally Posted by Subaru297

I am admittedly a member of the weight police, but considering that most if not all 3/4 tons are almost identical to its comparable 1 ton other than suspension in most cases I would not feel uncomfortable towing right at the limits of a 3/4 ton class pickup. Add some airbags to reduce the sag and see how it tows. It "should" be comparable to a 1 ton......

Maybe that is bad advice though

9635lbs dry weight, add 1000lbs of your stuff, multiply by 20% and you are at....

2127lbs leaving you with 521lbs of payload for passengers and a hitch. I wouldn't sweat being a couple hundred pounds over in a 3/4 ton truck.

Some 3/4 ton trucks are identical to 1 tons but are kept under a specific GVWR only for licensing/insurance purposes. No idea if that applies to Ram's though.

Cheers

That's a very good point, when you build a 250 on Ford's website, they have an option to change the GVWR for the truck - but they don't change anything in the vehicle other than the sticker.. The sticker change is also a free "upgrade." that will get you nothing except higher registration fees and possibly insurance. I'm not really sure how the factory gets away with that, but they definitely do. On the fords, the frame, axle, and springs can all be configured identically between the 250 and 350, but somehow the 350 will end up with an extra thousand pounds of payload. It's voodoo science.

Unfortunately, you won't really know if you are happy towing that combination until you actually do it, and that's probably more important than an arbitrarily placed sticker as long as you are somewhat close.

[LeonB]

The easiest to do is to take your truck and rent a 5er like the one you want to buy for a weekend. You are limited in payload because it is a class II vehicle which by law is limited to 10000 lb's gvwr. The heavier the truck the less payload by law even though in probability it could take quite a bit more, that is why I suggest renting one for a weekend.


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[Big1]

Congrats on your new ram, I have the same truck but I have the CC and not the megacab which put my payload at 2993 lbs that's the door sticker. My wife and I was looking at a 5th wheel but decided to wait, we have a trade in and they want give you nothing for trade ins.

[Rocky3204]

Thanks again for all the replies, I was just introduced to some encouraging information regarding the SAE J2807 tow rating that ram is compliant with, this will give me at least 400lbs toward payload!!

[bansai]

Originally Posted by Rocky3204

Thanks again for all the replies, I was just introduced to some encouraging information regarding the SAE J2807 tow rating that ram is compliant with, this will give me at least 400lbs toward payload!!

My understanding of SAE J2807 (which is somewhat limited) is that it has nothing to do with payload. And it is your *payload* number that you are going to run out of room with first it looks like.

The intent was to level the playing field with respect to just the tow ratings (alone)..i.e. Ford says the 150 has a tow rating of 12,000 lbs.. how did they get to that number?? The SAE standard dictates that part.

How to measure what a truck can pull with occupants, gas, a hitch, pulling an x % grade for y amount of miles... etc. None of those things are factored into your payload number Payload is, and always has been GVWR of your Truck minus your curb weight, with a full tank of gas.

We had a thread on this the other day. Your payload doesn't go up just because your manufacturer used SAEJ2807. All that means is you can trust the 'tow rating' is being measured the same way Ford, Toyota, etc are doing it. Before that standard was adopted, every manufacturer had their own 'secret' method for determining the combined truck / trailer weight ratings... i.e what you can pull - which as you know is not the same thing as how much weight your truck can support on the hitch. Finding out that your manufacturer adheres to the SAE J2807 standard, does nothing to change your payload at all. Payload is really simple to calculate.. all you need is your GVWR and a scale.

Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that. I spent too many hours researching it the other day to go through that again