Is the JOF tone is changing?

[Murff]

Murff

[bucko]

A wise staff member on a Mustang site (she is a staff member here as well: Janet) posted the following comments on searching when it was identified as a common issue on that site. It should be noted that this Mustang site attracts many new members monthly, and they will ask lots of questions that have already been addressed. Her observations and ideas to address them certainly can be followed on this site as well. It's first important though to identify the reasons that members may not search first. and that "seasoned" members here are understanding about this.

Janet's comments:

"The issues with newbie posts in the absence of searching is at the top of list of things we could change. Having a post deleted as a newbie or being told to search is a sure fire way to drive folks off. There are reasons folks don't search.

1. They are on a mobile device and it's tough to search
2. They do search but don't know how to get effective results
3. They search but our search function is lame and they get unusable results.
4. They don't know how.
5. They are lazy.

I keep reading that reason 5 is the underlying problem but I don't buy it. It takes work to join a forum. Anyone who bothers to join by definition is already invested here ... they are not lazy.

If we want folks to stick around it's up to us to create an atmosphere where they want to return. Since they don't seem to stay, what we are currently doing is not effective, imo.

Over the years, I've been involved with a lot of forums - the search issue is a hot button problem for long time members who resent newbies and often for site team members as well."

[Camper_bob]

Something I don't understand: Why do seasoned members resent newbies? Not here so much, but on other forums it's pretty common. As a newb, you get a lot of rolled eyes and comments like "Just search it!" or whatever. It's like those people were never new to anything, which absolutely cannot be the case.

I like newbies, in fact, sometimes I still consider myself a n00b, and I think if we welcome new blood and help out people who need a hand, we're all better for it.

I say HUG A N00B!!

[TWP723]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

Something I don't understand: Why do seasoned members resent newbies? Not here so much, but on other forums it's pretty common. As a newb, you get a lot of rolled eyes and comments like "Just search it!" or whatever. It's like those people were never new to anything, which absolutely cannot be the case.

I like newbies, in fact, sometimes I still consider myself a n00b, and I think if we welcome new blood and help out people who need a hand, we're all better for it.

I say HUG A N00B!!

I agree! We were ALL newbies at one time. Being scarcastic towards them will just drive them away. Heck, they may know stuff we don't! No one on this forum is a professional. That's why EVERYONE asks questions. Soooo...

Where's my beer?

[jamaddox]

Originally Posted by bucko

A wise staff member on a Mustang site (she is a staff member here as well: Janet) posted the following comments on searching when it was identified as a common issue on that site.

Janet's comments:

"There are reasons folks don't search.
. . .
1. They are on a mobile device and it's tough to search
2. They do search but don't know how to get effective results"

Number1 seems good. I use tapatalk and the search seems hard to find and difficult for me to type on a phone keyboard.

Number 2 I see all the time. My wife is trained to help people do targeted searches and she sees lots of not knowing how to do an effective search

[spoon059]

I don't know that people hate noobs... I think they just get annoyed by the same question over and over and over and over and over again every couple of days. I tend to just skip over the repetitive questions.


Its really not that difficult to search. It gets you the information you seek so much faster.

[Crabman]

Originally Posted by bucko

A wise staff member on a Mustang site (she is a staff member here as well: Janet) posted the following comments on searching when it was identified as a common issue on that site. It should be noted that this Mustang site attracts many new members monthly, and they will ask lots of questions that have already been addressed. Her observations and ideas to address them certainly can be followed on this site as well. It's first important though to identify the reasons that members may not search first. and that "seasoned" members here are understanding about this.

Janet's comments:

"The issues with newbie posts in the absence of searching is at the top of list of things we could change. Having a post deleted as a newbie or being told to search is a sure fire way to drive folks off. There are reasons folks don't search.

1. They are on a mobile device and it's tough to search
2. They do search but don't know how to get effective results
3. They search but our search function is lame and they get unusable results.
4. They don't know how.
5. They are lazy.

I keep reading that reason 5 is the underlying problem but I don't buy it. It takes work to join a forum. Anyone who bothers to join by definition is already invested here ... they are not lazy.

If we want folks to stick around it's up to us to create an atmosphere where they want to return. Since they don't seem to stay, what we are currently doing is not effective, imo.

Over the years, I've been involved with a lot of forums - the search issue is a hot button problem for long time members who resent newbies and often for site team members as well."

Good info here. I think a newbie could easily become discouraged and never post again if they get a bruising welcome, and could just as easily become a loyal, longtime contributing member if they are made to feel welcome. The search feature is a tool on this forum, but its members and their knowledge and experience are the greatest resource of all for anyone with a question.

[Filthy-Beast]

On another forum I frequent I keep a list of links for answers to often repeated questions. When some new asks, I welcome them to the forum post the link and invite them to ask follow-up questions.

[redenbacher]

I was a newbie a couple years ago and the JOF (and learning by doing things wrong) really helped me. I still enjoy reading posts about issues new folks have that I also struggled with. One comment about the search function. When you put in your keyword, there are two selections with radio buttons. One says show threads and the other is show posts. I recommend telling people to use the show posts selection. It is a lot easier to get the results your are looking for.

[rbrumfield]

Originally Posted by notaz3

I don't see the "use the search" comment as being too offensive. There is usually some explanation along with it. What I do find irritating is people commenting "Welcome to the forum, try using the search function". That is one way to turn off a new member. If you are not providing an answer, or at least usefull advice, don't comment.

Why not do the search for the newbie and post the link for the results. Then you can also coach them in how to use the search function by explaining how you got your results. KISS...Keep It Simple Simon

[bucko]

Originally Posted by rbrumfield

Why not do the search for the newbie and post the link for the results. Then you can also coach them in how to use the search function by explaining how you got your results. KISS...Keep It Simple Simon

Also a good idea. Then perhaps they take that method and pass it along to the next new member.

[bedrck46]

Originally Posted by bucko

A
Janet's comments:

"The issues with newbie posts in the absence of searching is at the top of list of things we could change. Having a post deleted as a newbie or being told to search is a sure fire way to drive folks off. There are reasons folks don't search.

1. They are on a mobile device and it's tough to search
2. They do search but don't know how to get effective results
3. They search but our search function is lame and they get unusable results.
4. They don't know how.
5. They are lazy.

I keep reading that reason 5 is the underlying problem but I don't buy it. It takes work to join a forum. Anyone who bothers to join by definition is already invested here ... they are not lazy.

If we want folks to stick around it's up to us to create an atmosphere where they want to return. Since they don't seem to stay, what we are currently doing is not effective, imo.

Over the years, I've been involved with a lot of forums - the search issue is a hot button problem for long time members who resent newbies and often for site team members as well."

Just my opinion

#1.If they are on a mobile device then maybe they should wait until they are in a better position to do a search

Being on a mobile device is just an excuse to have someone do the search for them.

#2 Then they need to ask for someone to help them with advice so they can get better results

#3 If our search function is lame then it needs to be improved.

#4 They need to be taught Giving them the answer doesn't help them learn how to search

#5 LAZY Just because someone joins a forum doesn't mean they aren't lazy. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to follow the questions to join.

You join a forum ONCE and your in. But you can ask many questions to get answers that you are to lazy to look up for yourself.

How many times have you seen a new member come on the forum and ask for help for something that a simple search would have given the answer.
That person gets his answer and then is never heard from again until he needs another answer.

I have noticed that on the RV forums that there appear to be a lot less lazy people then there are on some of the automotive forums.

Again just My Opinion. You may agree or disagree but then that would be your opinion

[clubhouse]

Deleted

[Scoutr2]

Well, when I am camping, I usually don't have internet access, except for my smartphone. And searching this site on a smartphone is a PITA. If I was a newbie and had a situation under these conditions, I would probably put out a plea for help and hope someone could give me direction ASAP. So only having a mobile device at your disposal IS a good excuse to not search.

And too - sometimes a search turns up sooooo much info that one can spend hours reading through it and STILL not find an answer to their specific problem. After awhile, one tends to throw in the towel and just ask the question. By all means - please do! That's why this site exists!!!

As far as improving the search capabilities of the website - well - it is run on web software that costs money to someone for its use. If someone else wants to step up and fund more search-friendly software, then by all means - please do. But my experience on MANY websites is that the search capabilities here are pretty darned good. It all depends on how you search. If you use "quotation" marks around your key words, and use the Posts Only option, it will refine your search a great deal.

Perhaps a topic on the front page about how to best search might be in order.

And I don't know about anyone else - but when I was a newbie (not on this site), I only posted when I had a question. That's kinda the purpose of this site. If I have a problem, someone else has probably had that problem, as well. Now that I am a bit experienced, I am here more, trying to share my solutions, ideas, and opinions. And then, I STILL come upon a problem now and again that I've never seen before - and haven't found a solution through searches. So I ask. If it annoys someone, they can choose not to read it. But then, why come here?

Just MY opinion.

[bedrck46]

Originally Posted by clubhouse

^^^ I disagree, and it's this type of attitude that never used to exist. Thank you for validating my point. The tone is changing, whether I like it or not.

You are allowed to disagree with my opinion But you are wrong in saying that it was an attitude. There is a difference between attitude and opinion If you had taken the time to look at many of the post I have made you clearly would have seen what my attitude is. Although I may be new on this forum as compared to you. My post have been very helpful to those I have responded to and not once since I have been on this forum have I asked for help. I can on this forum so I could get information by doing searches and reading others post. But in the meantime I also came on to help others Now if you think that is an attitude and I validated you point you are badly mistaken.

[bedrck46]

Originally Posted by Scoutr2

Well, when I am camping, I usually don't have internet access, except for my smartphone. And searching this site on a smartphone is a PITA. If I was a newbie and had a situation under these conditions, I would probably put out a plea for help and hope someone could give me direction ASAP. So only having a mobile device at your disposal IS a good excuse to not search.

And too - sometimes a search turns up sooooo much info that one can spend hours reading through it and STILL not find an answer to their specific problem. After awhile, one tends to throw in the towel and just ask the question. By all means - please do! That's why this site exists!!!

As far as improving the search capabilities of the website - well - it is run on web software that costs money to someone for its use. If someone else wants to step up and fund more search-friendly software, then by all means - please do. But my experience on MANY websites is that the search capabilities here are pretty darned good. It all depends on how you search. If you use "quotation" marks around your key words, and use the Posts Only option, it will refine your search a great deal.

Perhaps a topic on the front page about how to best search might be in order.

And I don't know about anyone else - but when I was a newbie (not on this site), I only posted when I had a question. That's kinda the purpose of this site. If I have a problem, someone else has probably had that problem, as well. Now that I am a bit experienced, I am here more, trying to share my solutions, ideas, and opinions. And then, I STILL come upon a problem now and again that I've never seen before - and haven't found a solution through searches. So I ask. If it annoys someone, they can choose not to read it. But then, why come here?

Just MY opinion.

I do agree as you are correct in that having a mobile device as your only means when help is needed and no other way is available the by all means do so But I also feel that is an exception to what others do.

Also as you stated you came on this forum for information and as time went by you stuck around and now help others To me that is what the forum is about and that makes it worth while to be here But my opinion was about those that just come on and use and don't give back. I am more willing to help someone that asks a question and includes the words that they tried to search and couldn't find the answers. then someone that just comes on from time to time and asks a simple question that the answers are so simple to find and you can tell they put no effort into searching. I once suggested on another forum that the person do a search and the reply I received was why should I search when I can get the answers here No that is an ATTITUDE

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by bedrck46

You are allowed to disagree with my opinion But you are wrong in saying that it was an attitude. There is a difference between attitude and opinion If you had taken the time to look at many of the post I have made you clearly would have seen what my attitude is. Although I may be new on this forum as compared to you. My post have been very helpful to those I have responded to and not once since I have been on this forum have I asked for help. I can on this forum so I could get information by doing searches and reading others post. But in the meantime I also came on to help others Now if you think that is an attitude and I validated you point you are badly mistaken.

My first comment on this thread, but have many times posted and pointed newbies or anybody for that matter to do a search regarding their ??. I have received many "thanks" [and a couple warnings] so my posts have been appreciated many more times than not so I am not a troll or whatever. The arguments for not doing a search [mobile device, difficulty of search, or whatever are IMHO more a smoke screen than anything else. Certainly there are times and places where these things might be factors but how many questions are raised where only a mobile device is available? My pattern is to settle in my family room after or before a trip and research whatever issue I am seeking info on.

I do not believe the flavor of the forum has changed as much as its members have become much more savey. With all the technology available in our lives, even old codgers like me have learned how to find info on just about everything. This thread should not be directed at newbie posts and my opinion is simply that there is a wealth of knowledge already on the record about many of the typical newbie ??'s and that is why I often suggest doing a search rather than just depend on who ever might be signed on at the time. My personal pattern is to do a google search to find info from various sources, including this forum. With that info in hand I often come to the forum for clarification or personal experience from members on a refined question.

Now before the "their are no dumb ??'s" remarks and the "shameful way to welcome new members" comments; I am not calling anyones ??'s dumb nor am I being disrespectful toward new members. If I am ask a question face to face by a newbie in the CG or while shopping at a CW store, my answer is most often direction about where they can go online and gain a ton of insite on the issue rather than just taking my word for it. I have a particular way to set up, pack up, rig my TV, select a genny, and weither I think a TT cover is worth it; but like the current Direct TV commercial "don't take my word for it, get it from the horse's mouth" or in the case of the forum, the previous inputs not just from the few who happen to be signed on.

[oldmanAZ]

My opinion: So, my take on the posts in the 'JOF tone' topic ....

The JOF audience - any public post - is to a virtually unlimited number of people
all with different levels of RV, forum, and computer knowledge
in different situations
using unknown technologies
to communicate with other JOF members
for reasons and expectations that vary from social contact to seeking general information to needing a solution to their serious problem.

THAT, MY FRIENDS, IS A TALL ORDER!

I do believe that the vast majority of JOF members that respond to postings follow the 'Golden Rule' and respond in a manner that THEY would like others to respond to them.

However, to paraphrase Abraham Lincoln, "You can please all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot please all the people all the time."

[TWP723]

Like I always say...

"Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt"

[troutslayer]

Originally Posted by TWP723

Like I always say...

"Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt"

I for one am proof of this .