Leveling Problems

djtho1 · 10-15-2014, 06:06 AM

We have a new Seismic 3712, and I have a question regarding the lack of leveling that this system does. Just for background, I am coming from a camper with the Lippert 6 point auto leveling system with the hydraulic jacks. That system always leveled the camper from as much as 4 degrees off level side to side.

The system on the Jayco uses only the four corner jacks for leveling, and the two center jacks for stabilization. My problem is that it won't level the camper from even 1.8 degrees off level. Once I get the "out of stroke" fault (it has plenty of stroke left) and the system shuts off, there is no way to extend the center jacks manually, causing a frame bind. Does anyone else have this issue? Surely these campers were made to be used where ground might not be perfectly level.

When it is in a level site, the system works as it should to stabilize the camper.

Rotocleaner1 · 10-15-2014, 08:13 PM

I have had the same problem when not on level ground. I agree with you, that there is plenty of jack left to level and you get the "out of stroke" code.

P25ct · 10-17-2014, 06:08 PM

I have a '14 3914 with the same exact problem guys. I mean exactly. I am bringing it in to be troubleshot. I will let you know. If you ask me, it needs hydraulic level-up. Way too much for electric. Heartland Cyclone, Grand Design, Forest River, and other manf of similar size 5ers use Hyd. I'm glad I'm not the only one. Djtho1, I had to scroll up and make sure I didn't write that post its so accurate! Let's all keep each other informed.

P25ct · 10-17-2014, 06:11 PM

And FYI it out of strokes for max amperage, not jack extension. Out of stroke caused by either. It's the final 'short bursts' of rear jack fine tuning under weight that gets it every time, due to sudden high amperage to start the motor under weight, if that makes sense.

Grumpy · 10-17-2014, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P25ct

And FYI it out of strokes for max amperage,

Could that be result of undersized wire?

P25ct · 10-17-2014, 06:23 PM

My thought exactly. I'd like to put a multimeter in the jack side of the rear run and see what voltage is there. That will tell if it is or not. I asked Lippert that when I called tech support a couple times, they say the wires shipped with the package are correct for the run, now whether Jayco uses them or not, not sure but that's a healthy 40' run from the control board. Also read about control board issues, we shall see.

djtho1 · 10-17-2014, 06:24 PM

Here is what Lippert told me, and what I think might be part of our trouble. They agree and say that the hydraulic system is by far the stronger system. I am personally disappointed in Jayco for cheaping out on this part in what is otherwise and excellent coach.

Anyway, what I was told is that the system is designed to have at least 12.5 volts and will throw a fault and stop if the voltage drops below 12.5. My fifth wheel came with a single group 24 battery, which Lippert says is not enough to run the system because once the jacks start drawing on the system it makes the battery drop below 12.5 volts. I have two six volt batteries in there now, and because (at least, in my experience) the "resting voltage" of these batteries tied together is only 12.8 volts or so, it causes the system to fault because, even though they have plenty of "oomph" to run the jacks, they can't maintain that impossibly high voltage. I am switching to a single group 27 until I figure out what to do. What I am looking at is something called a D8 battery, a 12 volt AGM 185 pound monster, but it should give enough reserve to maintain the desired voltage. This is also why they only use the middle jacks for stabilization. It would be difficult if not impossible to draw that much amperage from one battery to run three of these jacks at the same time to pick up one side of the coach.

I still say that this system is a very poor substitute for the hydraulic system. I also think that it could be better with some programming tweaks and the ability to extend any jack manually. Jayco also needs to work with the dealers to make sure the dealers know about the requirements of this system and to size the battery accordingly. Once I told my dealer what lippert said, they swapped me for a group 27. I will see if that works.

Do let us know what your dealer finds out. The more information we have, the better

P25ct · 10-17-2014, 06:30 PM

I run with the converter and genny or shore power and same result at 13.6v. Also if it goes low voltage at the board, it will give a low voltage error for below 12.5. Out of stroke is Amps or travel. It's under spec'd. It's a darn option (or was in 14) so I would have paid another 2k for the hydraulic as an option instead of the 3600$ sticker price for the ground control. Yes, poor planning on an otherwise good coach.

Grumpy · 10-17-2014, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtho1

Anyway, what I was told is that the system is designed to have at least 12.5 volts and will throw a fault and stop if the voltage drops below 12.5.

Are you plugged into shore power when it happens as well. If so then voltage should not be an issue. The converter is a 90 amp and should compensate the battery.

P25ct · 10-17-2014, 06:34 PM

Also, as a work around to extend your mids, you can swap the connectors at the box (mid to rear) and go manual and extend mids with the rear button until they hit ground. Usually mine gets me within 0 and .1 and a green dot when it out of strokes(so close loses it in the tweaking), so you're in essence level so it would be safe to drop mids and be done with it. Not recommended obviously, but it's a dirty workaround. Just remember to swap them back when done, so when time to go retract all rear will pull them all up and on you go.

djtho1 · 10-17-2014, 06:40 PM

From what Lippert told me, plugging into shore power won't help much because what the convertor supplies to the batteries is just a trickle charge, and the system runs from the batteries. I thought the same thing, and still do plug it in before I level just to get every last amp and volt possible.

I had not thought of swapping plugs around. I had thought of putting a couple of switches inline with the wires so I can extend either middle jack (or both) manually when the system gets us close and faults out, but I really don't think I should have to. With the cost of these things, I should be able to unplug from the truck and just have it work. The hydraulic system just works. On one group 24 battery. No muss, no fuss.

P25ct · 10-17-2014, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtho1

With the cost of these things, I should be able to unplug from the truck and just have it work.

Amen.

Grumpy · 10-17-2014, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtho1

I should be able to unplug from the truck and just have it work. The hydraulic system just works. On one group 24 battery. No muss, no fuss.

That would be a way to see if low voltage is the issue. Plug back in with the engine running. The 12 volt from the truck to the FW is straight from the alternator to the battery and would actually be closer to 14v. That is how the Power Gear leveling on the SENECA is supposed to be operated. With the engine running and it is a hydraulic system.

djtho1 · 10-17-2014, 07:07 PM

I have been monitoring voltage from the control panel and it does drop to 12.2 to 12.3 volts. Before I talked to Lippert, I did not see this as a problem, because most electric components have pretty good tolerance built in. I would plug into the truck, but getting it close would be a problem in the campground.

Grumpy · 10-17-2014, 07:14 PM

I'll be anxious to see how they work on the PINNACLE we take delivery of in Nov. It comes with 2 batteries for the inverter that runs the fridge between shore power and the truck or geny running.

djtho1 · 10-17-2014, 07:16 PM

I would be interested as well. If that setup works better, maybe it is adaptable.

P25ct · 10-17-2014, 07:41 PM

I've done all three.Truck 12v running, converter (now understand that's worthless) and battery only. All three ways it's same story. I'd love to put a 60a-100a 120v power supply on the system and see what it does. Grumpy would the 12v aux power going to system from truck be adequate to power the system? From what you say yes. Congrats on the Pinnacle! They are beautiful. Problem is if Ground Control 2 is under powered for the Seismic, Lippert nor Jayco will ever tell you that, so we will be left with 1000 other reasons why maybe it is, but will never see resolution. I'm hoping for one of us to find an answer though. Have a great weekend.

djtho1 · 10-17-2014, 07:44 PM

One thing maybe to try is to use a big battery charger on the battery. That could give you the voltage and amperage boost. I haven't tried that yet.

P25ct · 03-27-2015, 05:47 PM

Pulling the seismic out of storage soon. Dealer swapped control board early winter and never had s chance to test it since, snow was coming and we put her right away. Anyone have any more info or experience with this? I'm planning on installing both batteries when I pull it out. Anyway just wondering what your experiences have been since. Also wondering when they came out with the 2015 4212 if they changed anything in the design, 4212 is heavier so it would be interesting to see if they did. It's still a ground control 2, not a newer 3 or hydraulic like competitors. Thanks all. Also if anyone else since this thread has had similar experiences please chime in.

djtho1 · 03-29-2015, 10:53 PM

We have been using the system now for several months and many moves, and have determined that it will level from about 1.6 or 7 degrees off level, but anything more than that it fails. Often, it fails after it has leveled the camper and it is doing its final "grounding" of the jacks before lowering the middle stabilizers. I still think it is an inferior system, and have told many people about its non-leveling properties. Lippert told me that the hydraulic system was their Cadillac and this electric set up is the Chevrolet. It's a shame, really.

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