Need advice for Jeep Wrangler toad and Precept 35S

[Dustdevil]

Also, good job on finding the Alpha tow bar. I did the same to find my Roadmaster Falcon All Terrain. Craigslist. Only used maybe a dozen times. It's been great so far.

[NickM]

Originally Posted by drk98

From what I found... Basically any wiring harness that utilizes the factory bulbs can have interference from the brake light triggered by the aux brake. To get around that you'd have to pull the brake fuse so that only the MH would light up the brake lights. I didn't want to deal with pulling fuses and didn't want the "risk" of tampering with the factory jeep wiring so I went the route of a whole new bulb and separate wiring. It really wasn't much more work than installing any of the harnesses.

Well, I guess that answered that question. Time for Plan B, research the extra bulb wiring OR look at not connecting the Wrangler brake lights to the RV brake line, use only the turn signal lines.

As far as charging... I haven't crossed that bridge yet. Our Jeep is a 2015 and doesn't have a steering wheel lock so the key is off and in my pocket. Only the aux brake is drawing power and from what I've read most are getting 2-3 days of towing before the battery drains much.
You're in a different situation with the 07 so a charger may be a good idea if you're going to tow for many hours at a time without starting the jeep.

I need to find out if my steering wheel locks in the key off position. This is my first MH so not sure how long we will drive each day. With our fifth wheel we try to get off the road by 5PM or before dusk, whichever occurs first.

[NickM]

Turn signal and brakes are on the same leads according to e-trailer.com. Looks like separate bulb wiring is in order.

[Dustdevil]

Originally Posted by NickM

Turn signal and brakes are on the same leads according to e-trailer.com. Looks like separate bulb wiring is in order.

OK. So, the only thing you have to worry about is what happens when the auxiliary brake system depresses the Jeep brake pedal. If you don't need your keys in the ignition while towing (ie: if your steering wheel does not lock when keys are removed), and if depressing the brake pedal with nothing else "ON" in the Jeep illuminates the brake lights on the Jeep, then you will still need to remove the brake light fuse.

[NickM]

Originally Posted by Dustdevil

OK. So, the only thing you have to worry about is what happens when the auxiliary brake system depresses the Jeep brake pedal. If you don't need your keys in the ignition while towing (ie: if your steering wheel does not lock when keys are removed), and if depressing the brake pedal with nothing else "ON" in the Jeep illuminates the brake lights on the Jeep, then you will still need to remove the brake light fuse.

Aarrrgghhh! Always the "gotcha" comes from out of the blue.....

No alternatives right? Remove fuse or battery disconnect? Who was the guy who said Wranglers were "plug and play"?

[drk98]

Originally Posted by Dustdevil

OK. So, the only thing you have to worry about is what happens when the auxiliary brake system depresses the Jeep brake pedal. If you don't need your keys in the ignition while towing (ie: if your steering wheel does not lock when keys are removed), and if depressing the brake pedal with nothing else "ON" in the Jeep illuminates the brake lights on the Jeep, then you will still need to remove the brake light fuse.

I can pull the keys out of mine and when the aux brake presses the pedal the lights come on but since I have a seperate line and bulb for the MH to control I don't care if the Jeep brake light comes on or not. In that case there will just be two brake lights on. Is there a reason I should care?? I have the aux brake set to a low sensitivity so except in medium or more braking it never engages.

In NickM's case.. Since he has an 07 I'm fairly certain he'll need to leave the key in. They didn't remove the steering lock until 2012 or 2013.

[Dustdevil]

Originally Posted by drk98

I can pull the keys out of mine and when the aux brake presses the pedal the lights come on but since I have a seperate line and bulb for the MH to control I don't care if the Jeep brake light comes on or not. In that case there will just be two brake lights on. Is there a reason I should care?? I have the aux brake set to a low sensitivity so except in medium or more braking it never engages.

In NickM's case.. Since he has an 07 I'm fairly certain he'll need to leave the key in. They didn't remove the steering lock until 2012 or 2013.

The one thing you have to worry about with your setup is if the turn signal on the Jeep's second motorhome-only light bulb cannot be seen from behind by other drivers when the built-in Jeep brake light bulb is lit. It could get you a ticket, but that's not likely. I'd be more concerned about any potential for an accident because other drivers don't know you are turning or changing lanes.

I'm not a JK Wrangler expert by any means, but I think you're right about the steering lock. I have to leave the keys in the ignition on mine while towing, in my 06 LJ Wrangler. Mine has a position between "lock" and "on" which unlocks the steering column, but does not turn on the Jeep's electricals. Don't know about the 07s, as those are a different generation of Jeep entirely.

[Dustdevil]

Originally Posted by NickM

Aarrrgghhh! Always the "gotcha" comes from out of the blue.....

No alternatives right? Remove fuse or battery disconnect? Who was the guy who said Wranglers were "plug and play"?

I think those are your two alternatives if you're going to use external lighting and wiring while towing. Assuming, of course, your brake lights come on without the key in the "on" position. Be also advised that if you disconnect the battery, you still have to provide a power source for your auxiliary braking system to run the compressor and electronics. This is the reason I chose to use the Jeep wiring and lights, the wiring harness with diodes, and go to the trouble of setting up my own battery charging circuit on the Jeep.

[NickM]

Originally Posted by Dustdevil

The one thing you have to worry about with your setup is if the turn signal on the Jeep's second motorhome-only light bulb cannot be seen from behind by other drivers when the built-in Jeep brake light bulb is lit. It could get you a ticket, but that's not likely. I'd be more concerned about any potential for an accident because other drivers don't know you are turning or changing lanes.

Just thinking about this situation, in my mind (feeble that it is) I would think that anyone behind the keep could distinguish between the normal jeep brake light and a blinking red below it for the turn signal.

@Dustdevil - how much difficulty to pull the fuse? I haven't looked at my owners manual yet, been busy getting the fifth wheel ready to trade in while searching for an RVi2 brake. Scored one on eBay last night under $700, Yoo-hoo!

[Dustdevil]

Originally Posted by NickM

Just thinking about this situation, in my mind (feeble that it is) I would think that anyone behind the keep could distinguish between the normal jeep brake light and a blinking red below it for the turn signal.

@Dustdevil - how much difficulty to pull the fuse? I haven't looked at my owners manual yet, been busy getting the fifth wheel ready to trade in while searching for an RVi2 brake. Scored one on eBay last night under $700, Yoo-hoo!

Pulling fuses is the easy part. Your manual will direct you to the right spot.

[StevL]

If you use the jeep tail lights you simply install the relay (20 minute job). This relay will disengage your brake lights from the jeep when plugged in to your motor home.


On another note: Had my first real scare while towing. I was on a stretch of road where we had four lanes on my side of the road; left turn lane, left lane, middle lane, right lane.

I had made my way to the left lane, in about a mile I was going left onto an interstate. Cruising the speed limit (45) nothing was in front of me for at least a quarter mile, about 100 to 150 feet in the middle lane was this small red car also cruising at 45. Out of no where this red car merges left in front of me, thinking no problem lets just keep moving. But no, they make the left lane (my lane) and very suddenly come to a complete stop! She wants the far left turn lane (into a shopping area) and makes a hard stop in front of me! I was very hard on my brakes! I stopped so close to her rear end that I could not see her rear bumper! Thank goodness for a working toad braking system.

I could actually feel the toad pulling on my motor coach in this panic stop situation. Needless to say I blurted out a few four letter words.

In talking to my DW after she says, you know if we would have rear ended her it would have been our fault. I say lets get a camera for our motor coach, I can't believe a movie showing her pulling over quickly and stopping so quick wouldn't hold weight in a court room.

Steve

[Dustdevil]

Originally Posted by StevL

If you use the jeep tail lights you simply install the relay (20 minute job). This relay will disengage your brake lights from the jeep when plugged in to your motor home.


On another note: Had my first real scare while towing. I was on a stretch of road where we had four lanes on my side of the road; left turn lane, left lane, middle lane, right lane.

I had made my way to the left lane, in about a mile I was going left onto an interstate. Cruising the speed limit (45) nothing was in front of me for at least a quarter mile, about 100 to 150 feet in the middle lane was this small red car also cruising at 45. Out of no where this red car merges left in front of me, thinking no problem lets just keep moving. But no, they make the left lane (my lane) and very suddenly come to a complete stop! She wants the far left turn lane (into a shopping area) and makes a hard stop in front of me! I was very hard on my brakes! I stopped so close to her rear end that I could not see her rear bumper! Thank goodness for a working toad braking system.

I could actually feel the toad pulling on my motor coach in this panic stop situation. Needless to say I blurted out a few four letter words.

In talking to my DW after she says, you know if we would have rear ended her it would have been our fault. I say lets get a camera for our motor coach, I can't believe a movie showing her pulling over quickly and stopping so quick wouldn't hold weight in a court room.

Steve

No guarantees in a courtroom, but having a video is lots better than having no video.

[NickM]

Originally Posted by StevL

If you use the jeep tail lights you simply install the relay (20 minute job). This relay will disengage your brake lights from the jeep when plugged in to your motor home.

Steve, Tell me about your relay. Did you also add a lights wiring kit? Just point me in the right direction please.


On another note: Had my first real scare while towing. I was on a stretch of road where we had four lanes on my side of the road; left turn lane, left lane, middle lane, right lane.

I had made my way to the left lane, in about a mile I was going left onto an interstate. Cruising the speed limit (45) nothing was in front of me for at least a quarter mile, about 100 to 150 feet in the middle lane was this small red car also cruising at 45. Out of no where this red car merges left in front of me, thinking no problem lets just keep moving. But no, they make the left lane (my lane) and very suddenly come to a complete stop! She wants the far left turn lane (into a shopping area) and makes a hard stop in front of me! I was very hard on my brakes! I stopped so close to her rear end that I could not see her rear bumper! Thank goodness for a working toad braking system.

I could actually feel the toad pulling on my motor coach in this panic stop situation. Needless to say I blurted out a few four letter words.

In talking to my DW after she says, you know if we would have rear ended her it would have been our fault. I say lets get a camera for our motor coach, I can't believe a movie showing her pulling over quickly and stopping so quick wouldn't hold weight in a court room.

Steve

All the more reason to insure the toad brakes work well with the TV, glad there was no damage. I picked up an RVi2 brake system from ebay so the only thing left is the wiring. @Dustdevil has been a big help and great resource, just need to finalize the decision on which way to go with lights wiring.

Spent today unloading the fifth wheel and getting ready for the trade in. Thursday is our big day

[StevL]

Page two, post 13, I included links to the relay and wiring kit I used. Very simple, just take your time.

Double check my links to make sure they fit your model year.


Steve

[NickM]

Finally got around to checking the Wrangler today. The steering wheel does not lock so am I to assume that I don't need to turn the ignition on to the first position?

The brake lights also activate without the key.

@SteveL, I'm going to call Hopkins and order a 2007 lighs kit and relay, probably late next week after we get back from our shakedown cruise in the 35S.

Thanks again for your help.

[Dustdevil]

Originally Posted by NickM

Finally got around to checking the Wrangler today. The steering wheel does not lock so am I to assume that I don't need to turn the ignition on to the first position?

The brake lights also activate without the key.

@SteveL, I'm going to call Hopkins and order a 2007 lighs kit and relay, probably late next week after we get back from our shakedown cruise in the 35S.

Thanks again for your help.

You should not have to keep the keys in the ignition, as long as you have a power outlet you can use with no keys turned on. My Wrangler has one of each. One is only powered when the key is "on".

If the brake lights activate without the key, then your aux braking system will illuminate the Jeep brake lights using the Jeep system. If you're using a secondary set of tail/brake/turn lights in the Jeep taillight housings, powered by the motorhome system, then you will have to check to see that you can still clearly see turn signals even with the Jeep brake lights on. It's not generally recommended, but some are more visible than others. Pro tip: Also check visibility of turn signals with both motorhome-to-Jeep tail and both sets of brake lights on.

[NickM]

Originally Posted by Dustdevil

You should not have to keep the keys in the ignition, as long as you have a power outlet you can use with no keys turned on. My Wrangler has one of each. One is only powered when the key is "on".

I have a power outlet that is hot without the ignition on so should be OK there.

If the brake lights activate without the key, then your aux braking system will illuminate the Jeep brake lights using the Jeep system. No plans to use a secondary set of lights, I will be using the Jeep lights controlled by the motor homeIf you're using a secondary set of tail/brake/turn lights in the Jeep taillight housings, powered by the motorhome system, then you will have to check to see that you can still clearly see turn signals even with the Jeep brake lights on. It's not generally recommended, but some are more visible than others. Pro tip: Also check visibility of turn signals with both motorhome-to-Jeep tail and both sets of brake lights on.

Great idea, I'll do that once we get it all hooked up, thanks.

[Dustdevil]

Originally Posted by NickM

Great idea, I'll do that once we get it all hooked up, thanks.

This is essentially what I did. It requires a bit more careful planning and you need to tuck everything up out of the way like the Jeep factory does, and secure all the connectors. But it's far cleaner and still does not affect the Jeep wiring or computer if you use the wiring kit with diodes and the brake circuit relay.

You can sometimes get away without it, but I added a custom battery charging circuit so the Jeep battery stays topped off while towing, so the aux braking system doesn't suck the battery dry. Just custom power wiring with circuit protection, large enough wire.

[StevL]

Originally Posted by Dustdevil

If the brake lights activate without the key, then your aux braking system will illuminate the Jeep brake lights using the Jeep system. If you're using a secondary set of tail/brake/turn lights in the Jeep taillight housings, powered by the motorhome system, then you will have to check to see that you can still clearly see turn signals even with the Jeep brake lights on.

If you let the brake system activate the brake lights it does work, but you will not have turn signals or night time tail lights on your toad.

If you wire from the coach to the jeeps existing tail light circuit (such as the Hopkins kit with diodes) you get brake lights, night time tail lights, and turn signals, all exactly the same as driving the toad (no third brake light over the spare tire, this one doesn't work in this set up). With this set up you must install the relay *if* your brake lights work with the key off.

The other way is to add another lamp into each tail light housing and connect this to your coach. I didn't choose this option because the two I saw in operation were no where near as bright as the factory jeep tail lights. It could have just been the two I saw.

Oh there is one more option, to add either magnet mount or permanently mounted auxiliary tail light.

Steve

[Dustdevil]

Originally Posted by StevL

If you let the brake system activate the brake lights it does work, but you will not have turn signals or night time tail lights on your toad.

If you wire from the coach to the jeeps existing tail light circuit (such as the Hopkins kit with diodes) you get brake lights, night time tail lights, and turn signals, all exactly the same as driving the toad (no third brake light over the spare tire, this one doesn't work in this set up). With this set up you must install the relay *if* your brake lights work with the key off.

The other way is to add another lamp into each tail light housing and connect this to your coach. I didn't choose this option because the two I saw in operation were no where near as bright as the factory jeep tail lights. It could have just been the two I saw.

Oh there is one more option, to add either magnet mount or permanently mounted auxiliary tail light.

Steve

Exactly. I did what you did.