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08-27-2015, 07:29 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Akron
Posts: 3,196
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Safety was indeed a factor I considered when I moved from my former E-450-based Class C to my current Freightliner M2-based Super C. DW and I talked about and looked at some Class A's, but after discussion the Seneca won out.
One safety item I do wish the Freightliner offered is driver and passenger airbags. My Ford obviously had them, maybe it is just the impression that they would add an extra margin of safety. But they are not required due to the GVWR. We always are buckled up in the cab, hopefully that will be enough if something ever happens.
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08-27-2015, 08:24 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Dale Hollow Lake Tn/Ky
Posts: 2,525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteHawk
Bassdogs - using that quote option thing didn't work quite right - but anyway, you understand my response. Thanks again.
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No don't understand? Only quote option I ever did was 2+ years ago when I purchased the WhiteHawk. I don't figure things based on monthly figures because when I decide to buy something I pay for it. That way 6 years down the road I'm not still paying for a 6 year vehicle or rv. That format has allowed me to retire early and I fully understand that I have been blessed to be able to do it that way. On the other hand, it is the reward for living a very fugile life in our younger years.
I could but won't shoot holes in Griz's numbers, but just wanted to make sure people don't jump on long term financial decision without a realistic understanding of the impact of that decision. I am not anti MH and like I said before, we have taken several MH trips, but for many usage patterns, they may not be all that some like to imply.
2014 WH 30DSRE >26K online, 2010 2500HD Duramax >37k [net 20k w/08 1500 crewcab trade in
Expense going forward: approx. $700 per year for insurance on both TT and TV, no monthly payments, and my duramax value will get a lot closer to the MH value 5 - 10 years down the road.
What ever works for you is the right answer. Saving money buying a MH ???????.
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08-27-2015, 10:26 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Brooklin, Ontario
Posts: 543
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Bass... I am not offended if you find holes in my numbers... Forum if here to inform all of us and your sugestions are welcome by all... Including those being shot at
The numbers I have posted are all legitmate numbers based on my banking. I track my pennies pretty closely. I would love to be able to pay cash for my vehicles, but financing is my reality and that of many others. For me it is again a lifestyle choice, I prefer to live for today. Admittedly I am able to do that because I have a defined benefit pension plan so I do not have to worry as much about tomorrow.
If you are willing to accept my fuel numbers, and I promise I have the reciepts, that alone is a savings of $3000 a year or $45,000 over the 15 years I intend to own this rig. And that is not accounting for inflation of fuel prices. It also helps that my interest rate on the RV is locked in for the entire term as well so I know my payments exactly for that period.
__________________
Griswald One - Life is a Misadventure!
2015 Greyhawk 29ME / Chevy Sonic
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08-27-2015, 05:04 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Dale Hollow Lake Tn/Ky
Posts: 2,525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griswald One
Bass... I am not offended if you find holes in my numbers... Forum if here to inform all of us and your sugestions are welcome by all... Including those being shot at
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Not a problem griz and both points and points of view have been presented. Enjoy the MH.
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08-27-2015, 06:32 PM
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#25
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Santa Clarita
Posts: 54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassdogs
No don't understand? Only quote option I ever did was 2+ years ago when I purchased the WhiteHawk.
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Sorry Bassdogs - I meant the "Quote" function on this forum. If you look back, you'll see I messed up trying to quote a portion of your previous message. That's the problem with asynchronous communication.
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08-27-2015, 07:58 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Upperco, Md.
Posts: 807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griswald One
Not Quite... the 18 days are just the driving days... I am in the unit 45-50 days a year at this point. Right now it is my home for 16 Gloriously wonderful consecutive days.. But yes it sits for the same 315 days a year that the $40,000 TT did.
If that was the basis for my investent... well it probably sucks either way
And on those 315 days, I drive around in my $20,000 commuter car instead of the $45,000 truck. It comes down to personal priorities and preferences. I have picked mine and I love the choice, I am pretty sure Bass is very happy with his set up and sometime in the near future Whitehawk will have finished his research and figured out what rig works for hiim.
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I'm with you Griswald. From an investment standpoint, any RV "sucks" as you so eloquently put it!! I am a lot closer to the end then I am the beginning. So If I can afford it and want it, I intend to have it!! I have no desire for a MH but the monetary issue would be the last thing that would enter into the equation as long as I can pay for it. I, like you have had many "glorious" days beating around this country and hope to have many more. As the old saying goes "have you ever saw a Brinks truck following a hearse to the cemetery??)
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08-27-2015, 08:46 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Central California
Posts: 2,283
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If you are not factoring in the time value of money over the 15 years, essentially the lost of potential compounding, you are not considering the real cost.
We are much closer to the beginning than the end, both have great careers but intentionally chose to live very frugally I order to both pay cash for toys and invest for the future.
Starting from ZERO and saving $500/ month (typical car payments) for 15 years you end up with $160k on a $90k investment if you average a moderate 7% rate.
It's just simple math; we would rather live frugally, buy used in cash, and hold things for a long time.
Oh, I am not doing this so a Brinks truck can follow me to my grave. I am doing this so my kids and many generations to follow can continue to build upon it and hopefully make a meaningful impact to my community today and in the future.
__________________
2020 Ram 1500 5.7L
2007 Chevy Duramax LMM/Allison (Sold)
2012 Jay Flight 29QBH (Sold)
2012 Jay Flight 26BH (Sold)
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08-28-2015, 06:02 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Upperco, Md.
Posts: 807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clubhouse
If you are not factoring in the time value of money over the 15 years, essentially the lost of potential compounding, you are not considering the real cost.
We are much closer to the beginning than the end, both have great careers but intentionally chose to live very frugally I order to both pay cash for toys and invest for the future.
Starting from ZERO and saving $500/ month (typical car payments) for 15 years you end up with $160k on a $90k investment if you average a moderate 7% rate.
It's just simple math; we would rather live frugally, buy used in cash, and hold things for a long time.
Oh, I am not doing this so a Brinks truck can follow me to my grave. I am doing this so my kids and many generations to follow can continue to build upon it and hopefully make a meaningful impact to my community today and in the future.
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Just for the record, everything I buy is with cash. I HAVE lived frugally all my life. I have a farm that I'm leaving to the kids. What do you think the chances are that they are going to build on that. Chances are good that I won't be cold yet when that's on the market. I have great kids that are doing just fine without my money. Your kids impact on the community won't have a damn thing to do with what you leave them financially. I'm not suggesting spending beyond your means. What I'm saying is to enjoy what time you have while your health is still good enough to get out and go. If setting at home counting your money trips your trigger, so be it. That's not what I enjoy.
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08-28-2015, 07:03 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Dale Hollow Lake Tn/Ky
Posts: 2,525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ela1948
From an investment standpoint, any RV "sucks" as you so eloquently put it!! ??)
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The key word here is "investment". RV's are not investments, they are expenditures, like playing golf, going to a movie or a trip to Hawaii. You buy and you enjoy. In the end you have a wadded up receipt and memories. The shiny RV you buy for $$$$$$$$'s may if you're lucky worth $$$ when you're done with it and want to sell. What you have to do is decide up front if you want to see that movie or take that trip. Anything that depreciates is not an investment.
Like you, my father taught me to pay for your toys. Rule of thumb is that if you can't pay for a toy in 2 years, you can't afford it. We have followed that life rule since we were young and our bank account was pretty much paycheck to paycheck. What financing % or term that you can get doesn't alter the basic approach. You can get a 120 month [10 year] loan on a runabout boat that will be worth a dime on the dollar in as little as 5 years. The trap to financing your life is that it locks you in forever. There is no equity in your assets so when you want to sell or trade you often find yourself upside down with what you still owe.
Again I am not shooting at Griz and people who think differently than I do. And my approach is not about being "flush" with cash but rather having better options down the road when the shine is gone on what I bought 3 -5 years ago.
Sorry for hijacking the thread but do feel that cost is a factor in what ever we do and millions find themselves broke because a bank told them they could finance something that in the end they couldn't afford.
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09-01-2015, 07:30 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Elephant Butte, NM
Posts: 1,219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ela1948
Just for the record, everything I buy is with cash. I HAVE lived frugally all my life. I have a farm that I'm leaving to the kids. What do you think the chances are that they are going to build on that. Chances are good that I won't be cold yet when that's on the market. I have great kids that are doing just fine without my money. Your kids impact on the community won't have a damn thing to do with what you leave them financially. I'm not suggesting spending beyond your means. What I'm saying is to enjoy what time you have while your health is still good enough to get out and go. If setting at home counting your money trips your trigger, so be it. That's not what I enjoy.
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Pay Cash by saving for whats important to you. I earned it, I spend it, I enjoy what time & health I have left. Whats left goes to the kids .....
__________________
2015 F350 SRW 6.7 LB 4X4 Crew
2017 Durango G353KRT
2006 F350SD 6.0 LB Crew
2000 F250SD SRW 7.3 LB Extended Cab Air Bags
2002 Western Star 4900EX 500 Detroit 13sp.
2014 Eagle 30.5BHLT (sold)
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09-02-2015, 03:59 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South Texas
Posts: 7,206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clubhouse
Starting from ZERO and saving $500/ month (typical car payments) for 15 years you end up with $160k on a $90k investment if you average a moderate 7% rate.
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I'd like to see what liquid cash you're sitting on that gives you a 7% return? And to call that "modest" in today's climate? 7% is pretty darn good without putting it all at risk.
I understand the idea behind paying cash for your belongings. I really do get it. And it made a LOT of sense when interest rates were high. But take my truck for example: I pay less than 1.6% on a 4-yr note for that truck. In the end I will pay virtually nothing in interest over the life of the loan. Money is cheap right now if you have good credit and pay your debts. As long as you don't get in over your head or get seriously upside down, it doesn't pay to use your own cash to buy things. Pay a very minimal amount of interest on someone elses' money. Use your cash to invest (perhaps even in something that will grow value) and you're better off.
As long as interest rates are this low, I'm going to finance it. Interest rates go up, and I'll finance less and less.
__________________
-2018 Greyhawk 29MV
-2020 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (JLU) (Primary Toad)
-1994 Jeep Wrangler YJ (Secondary Toad)
-2014 Jay Flight 28BHBE & Ram 2500 6.4L CC 4x4 (sold)
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09-02-2015, 04:38 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Central California
Posts: 2,283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camper_bob
I'd like to see what liquid cash you're sitting on that gives you a 7% return? And to call that "modest" in today's climate? 7% is pretty darn good without putting it all at risk.
I understand the idea behind paying cash for your belongings. I really do get it. And it made a LOT of sense when interest rates were high. But take my truck for example: I pay less than 1.6% on a 4-yr note for that truck. In the end I will pay virtually nothing in interest over the life of the loan. Money is cheap right now if you have good credit and pay your debts. As long as you don't get in over your head or get seriously upside down, it doesn't pay to use your own cash to buy things. Pay a very minimal amount of interest on someone elses' money. Use your cash to invest (perhaps even in something that will grow value) and you're better off.
As long as interest rates are this low, I'm going to finance it. Interest rates go up, and I'll finance less and less.
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I know this is way off topic, so this will be my last comment on this topic in this thread. Maybe someone should start a thread related to personal finance since it seems to create so much activity everytime it comes up.
My liquid cash doesn't get 7%, nowhere near; I get just over 1% on liquid cash but that is a very small percentage of my assets.
My point was with respect to someone buying a "toy" on a 10-15 year loan, I mentioned car payment in my original post but just as easily could have said boat or RV. Regardless how cheap the money is today, if you can differ the gratification of "I want it now" or buy something less expensive you can pay cash for, then you can save the payment in an investment account. For me that investment account holds no load low cost index funds which over the long term will return 7% as history has shown. For a disciplined investor 7% is a conservative figure over time, many folks realize higher returns, and over time you will end up with a pile of money. Opposed to spending that money to service a loan where you end up with a toy worth a fraction of its purchase price. Servicing that loan is your opportunity cost for the toy, which means the real cost of that toy is the opportunity cost not purchase the price.
This is why I don't have the same aversion to a primary home mortgage. History has shown over time a home will appreciate in value while delivering the intended benefit of providing shelter.
My views are clearly in the minority and I couldn't care less what others chose to do with their money. I have a plan for our money and our future that works for my family and I. This plan has put me in a much better financial position than most of my peers, only wish I had embraced this philosophy sooner. I will point out however my pees often have use of nicer toys, but they certainly don't have ownership of those toys. Often our collective taste in toys and hobbies change over time too, not having debt against them makes it much easier to get in and out of a particular toy without the possibility of rolling negative equity to the next toy.
Many will disagree, but I also think our society would be considerably better off if we used far less financing and paid for things at purchase. I look at the mountains of debt that folks carry and it worries me. I am particularly alarmed by the enormous student loans that college kids are dealing with. I can't prove it, but I believe that the ever escalating cost of things like vehicles, schooling, etc is a result of easy credit. If credit wasn't so easy, these things would have to decelerate in their cost creep which would also help us as a society.
__________________
2020 Ram 1500 5.7L
2007 Chevy Duramax LMM/Allison (Sold)
2012 Jay Flight 29QBH (Sold)
2012 Jay Flight 26BH (Sold)
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09-02-2015, 06:37 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: --
Posts: 2,392
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I look at it this way.
1. Its an RV - its gonna depreciate wicked fast. Doesn't matter what I think or make of it.
2. I don't like towing. Period. I don't like figuring out the weight distribution, hitching, brake controller, etc. I don't like towing. At all.
3. When I'm camping I'm not boondocking. I don't have a Greyhawk for that. When I'm 'camping' I'm in full hookups. Full hookups almost always tend to have a Enterprise close by. I rented a car for 5 days for 160 bucks last week. We used it to get to the beach and around town. Got it all sandy and gave it back. Good enough for me.
4. No matter what I pick I'm spending money and losing money. But I'm having a great time with my family and I'm making memories.
5. Oh, and if I WERE to get a TT or 5'er, if I'm going to pull something I might as well not sacrifice. Which would mean I'd need a F250 / 2500 minimum for it. No way I'm commuting to work in one of those.
6. I hate towing.
__________________
2023 Ford F-150 XLT SCREW 3.5EB (Max Tow Pkg., Black Appearance Pkg., Bed Utility Pkg.)
1727 Payload / 4150 RAWR
On the sidelines taking it all in.
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