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Old 11-24-2014, 07:33 PM   #1
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Need lightweight trailer for family van

I posted this in an existing thread, but thought it might deserve its own thread. We're in the market for a trailer. It needs to be pulled by our 2014 Toyota Sienna, 3,500 lbs towing capacity and 350 lbs tongue weight. We have three small kids, 1, 3, and 5 years old. I was previously thinking between the 184BH and 16XRB, and now became aware of the X17's. I'm wondering if people think it would be realistic to tow either of these with my van?

Also, what are the pros&cons people typically weigh about hybrid trailers like these (comparing the 16XRB and X17s to the 184BH, which is not a hybrid)? I'm not super worried about temperature, since we'll be using it mostly in above freezing temperatures, and we like sleeping in cool rooms, but it would be nice to be comfortable in the evenings and mornings. Do the curtains that block off the beds provide useful insulation, so that everything but the beds stay warm?
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:05 PM   #2
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I went from a pop up to a X17Z to a X23F. The biggest advantage of a hybrid over a pop up in my opinion is setting up. It's a wonderful thing not to have to raise the roof anymore. Plus with a hybrid you get full walls and with the beds down you get almost the same amount of airiness. I loved my pop up for the openess of it however I think the hybrids are just as open.

I've seen quite a few small hybrids towed by minivans at the campgrounds I've gone to this year. Just keep in mind, with the young ones there's usually a lot of stuff to haul around and you could be close to your maximum weight limits. Serach toyota's website - I know they state the towing capacity at 3500lbs but you need to determine how that's measured, for example with one driver weighing 150lbs or with 1 driver and 1 passenger, etc...
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:20 PM   #3
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Remember Dry Weight does not include the battery or propane. This could add around 75 lbs. to your tungue weight.
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:21 PM   #4
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Thanks. I should clarify that we are not interested in pop ups anymore. I updated the original post to reflect that. The main question is really about hybrid vs lightweight fully closed trailers.
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:13 PM   #5
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If you can only pull 3500, I wouldn't even consider a 184BH. I pull mine with an Xterra that has a 5000 max tow and I wouldn't think of going any smaller with the vehicle.

The advise I got was to take max tow and subtract 2000 and that is what you should look at for the top end weight. So this would put you in the area of 1500 for a trailer.
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:28 PM   #6
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Thanks. I appreciate the advice but note that Jayco specifically advertises the 184BH as pullable by minivans, of which the Sienna has a high towing limit. I first saw it on a campground being pulled by an Odyssey, and the owner said he had no problem with it. I think the power of the engine in the xterra must be similar to the 3.5l 266hp 6-cylinder in the sienna, so it must at least to some extent depend on how much you fill the car.
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:48 PM   #7
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Don't trust the sales pitch!! I have a 2013 dodge caravan with similar towing specs(3600lbs) and I felt that I maxed out with a fully loaded 12 foot 2012 jayco pop up(me, the wife, 3 and 1 year old and all the food/clothes/toys/bikes to go along. Don't just go by the tow capacity. Consider axle weights and gross combined vehicle weight restrictions. As far as I am concerned, towing safely with my kids in the TV wins over comfort/luxury of a bigger trailer any day of the week.
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Old 11-24-2014, 10:12 PM   #8
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If you check what they tow trailers ( caravans) with in Europe you'll see you don't need a huge truck to tow a light weight trailer.

Here's some examples....

http://www.practicalcaravan.com/reviews/tow-car
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:11 PM   #9
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2014 Toyota Sienna

I have a 2014 Toyota Sienna. I have a X19H Hybrid that has a dry weight of #3600. At first glance, many will say that I am overloaded because the stated capacity is #3500. I have done a lot of research on this vehicle and its towing capacity. I have reached out to a few custom towing experts and read numerous peoples' account on towing with this vehicle. I encourage you to do the homework on this and come to your own conclusions. Do not read this post as an endorsement for towing above the 3500# mfr limit. I am simply telling you about my set-up and my experience towing with this vehicle. I spoke to the people at Can-Am RV in Canada (http://www.canamrv.ca/towing/ you MUST watch the Caravan towing a 34' Airstream!) as they do many custom towing set-ups. As stated by them, they have installed the following on many Siennas: Class III Receiver with a Weight Distribution Hitch, P3 Brake Controller and an AirLift 1000 air suspension. The thing you do need to watch is the tongue weight. The X19H is right at the limit, but the WDH helps keep everything level.

A couple quick points that I found on the Sienna. Toyota (and all mini-van manufacturers) state the 3500# limit for a number of reasons, none of which have to do with its capabilities (again, some research you'll see why). The Sienna has the same motor and the same transmission as the Toyota Highlander. The Highlander is rated at 5000#. None of which includes the passengers, the max weight in the tow vehicle includes passengers (according to the manual).

Now, I know that some will say that the vehicles are different in structure. They are, but they are both uni-body construction. The Highlander does not has a truck frame. As Can-Am pointed out, the Sienna actually makes a better tow vehicle due to its wider wheelbase and lower center of gravity. The frame can handle it.

I have been towing our camper all summer on many kinds of roads. It tows very well. On the highway (flat) at 65 mph the rpm is around 2700. I have yet to see the temperature go over the half-way mark. All 2014 Sienna's come with the towing package from Toyota. So it has the transmission and oil cooler right from the factory. But, the brake controller will have to be wired by a professional. The Class III receiver is a bolt on.

I have attached the pictures of the AirLift 1000 Air suspension. This helps keep everything level when loaded up.

Again, understand that you have to make the decision yourself. I am just telling you about my experience with the Sienna. I feel very comfortable towing this camper. I have attached a couple of pictures. One of the AirLift and one of the camper hooked up. Note: This picture was prior to adjustments to the WDH and supension. Once adjusted, I only lost about 1" of height in the rear.
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IMG_20140901_162646943_HDR.jpg   IMG_20140905_181146196_HDR.jpg  
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:33 PM   #10
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Oops. The "dry" weight is 3,320 from JayCo for my X19H. My yellow sticker reads 3,623 for actual.
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Old 11-24-2014, 11:57 PM   #11
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Mr Scary, that is awesome. Thanks a lot for the advice!
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Old 11-25-2014, 12:41 PM   #12
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One question, how much total did you spend on equipment to getyour sienna to where it is? Also, I don't really need an AC. How many pounds would I save by removing it?
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Old 11-25-2014, 03:13 PM   #13
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I have about $500 in P2 brake controller and wiring for the van. I have about $90 in the Air Lift suspension. The WDH is about $250 (that came wrapped up in the cost of the camper). If you are buying new, you can probably get that all wrapped up in the deal. If you are handy, you can do it yourself....with the exception of the brake controller (P2 or P3) wiring. There isn't a hook-up in the wiring harness in the van. It needs to be done manually. I would recommend calling your Toyota dealer and see who they send them to (they may not do the install themselves). If you mess up the wiring harness doing it yourself, you will be SOL. A dealer or RV shop is at least insured and has the experience. That to me was worth the cost.

As far as the AC unit...that is a personal choice. I wouldn't delete it even if I wasn't intending to use it. Think about the resale of the camper and buyers remorse. What if after a year or so you wish you had it? Again, personal preference, but I would not delete that just to save a few pounds.
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Old 11-25-2014, 05:23 PM   #14
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Paulx213: If you check what they tow trailers ( caravans) with in Europe you'll see you don't need a huge truck to tow a light weight trailer.


In Europe most of the vehicles are still standard and the trailers weigh about half than the North American trailers. Then there is another factor; on the freeways a combination is allowed only 80 km and on the secondary highways 60 km. I towed over there from family with a Ford Fiesta Diesel (1.8L) a 1400 kg single TT on the flat. It was OK but as soon I hit a head wind the fun was over. Between the 80 and 100 km you need a lot more power for disposal. I always wondered how they did it in Europe with their cars; at least I had hands on experience.


I have a 160 hp V6 Ford Aerostar (5000 lbs Tow Capacity) which will pull my 5900 lbs. TT with reasonable hills, but when I get a head wind the comfort is gone.
To keep up with the traffic in North America you need reserve power.


If you only pull a TT 60 km. under power is not as much of a big deal. But then again you still have to stay within all the legal limits.
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Old 11-25-2014, 08:02 PM   #15
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Another thing you have to look at is the square footage of the front of the trailer. My Escape has the same capacities as the Sienna. My fully loaded trailer weighs right at 3100 lbs. The Escape pulls it well even in moderate hills. My issue is wind resistance. Experience has taught me that 57mph is all she's got without gear hunting. I have a gauge that measures HP Torque and engine load. At 57mph my engine is using 100% load. There is nothing left. As a mechanic, I dont like to see loads above 80-90%. Its just too much strain on rings and heads. Mind you, my Escape tows it but she dont want no more. Mine isn't the weight its the wind resistance.
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Old 11-25-2014, 08:04 PM   #16
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I probably should add, my 165bh is very flat and very tall.
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Old 11-25-2014, 08:06 PM   #17
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All very relevant information. Especially as a newbie to this forum, I really appreciate you guys taking the time to respond!
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Old 11-26-2014, 03:12 PM   #18
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I have a 2012 Dodge Grand Caravan with tow package (3600 lbs tow capacity) hauling a Starcraft AR-ONE 15RB (apprx 2600 dry) with A EAZ-Lift WD hitch, Curt Sway Control, and a P2 brake controller. I can say that I definitely know the trailer is back there but it tows it with zero issues. I have not been through the mountains, but I have been up and down bluffs along the Mississippi River against headwinds. My RPM's in that situation are usually in the 3100-3500 range, while bumping higher for increased speed, but normal 'flat' driving I am usually in the 2100-2300 range and getting 12-17 mpg's at 63 MPH.
I will admit that I would not want to go any heavier than what I have, and that driving into the wind can get 'fatiguing' but I think if you stick to a Sienna with the tow package, and keep your trailer to under about 2800 lbs, you should be fine.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:28 PM   #19
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We have a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited with a 3500 Max towing capacity. We bought a 185. RB with a weight of 2750. It is too heavy with our vehicle. After 1 day of towing it we decided to park it at a campground. You have to consider the weight of you and your family ad well as all the incidentals you will put in it. The beds will need to be giving more padding, and with the lack of an oven, you will be buying a BBQ grill and appliances to make up for it. Tires are also an important consideration. We just upgraded our tires. It is lightweight and with young ones, you will find the lightweight will be shaking.
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Old 11-27-2014, 07:26 AM   #20
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I have heard that Jeep Wranglers can be difficult vehicles to have as your tow vehicle because of the short wheelbase and height off the ground (center of gravity)...
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