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Old 04-02-2012, 09:20 PM   #1
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Wdh & sway. Need advice.

Hi everyone. I test towed a X213 (4300lbs dry, 21' long body and total length 24') today in 70-80 kmhr wind and I need some help. First off I stopped by the rv dealer and they hooked the trailer up to my 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland v6 using my wdh. I have a friction sway controller but they did not use it cause there's no "hitch ball" on the A frame to connect to. My wdh is a "towing products" pro series with arms rated for 600lbs (the same dealer sold me the hitch when I purchased my PUP from them and I never heard of the name before today).

After hooking up I pulled away from the dealer and didn't get 5 km away before I was afraid for my life. The front end felt like it was very flighty. I pulled over and tightened the wdh up one more chain link before returning to the dealer. It felt a little better but still not acceptable. After returning to the dealer I spoke to my salesman who went to get a tech. While waiting I spoke to an older guy who works in the garage. He said the wdh looked like it was too tight but I told him when it was one link loser it seriously affected handling. He also said the cradles should sit further back but the propane bracket/base would need to be removed and mounted further back to allow for this.

A few minutes later my salesman and a younger guy arrived. I told them the handling was horrendous and beyond the point of feeling unsafe. The younger guy kinda seemed irritated and said the set up was fine. I told him the other guy said the bars looked too tight and that the cradles looked like they needed to be moved further back but the propane mount was in the way. His response was, "I'm a tech. The bars are rated for 600lbs and the hitch weight is 550. It's fine" (I guess he meant 550 when loaded to gross 5500lbs). He said that he would talk to his boss and see if he could install my friction sway controller and reschedule me for another test tow. He offered to come with me and said that "it's windy out and that's why it feels weird". I told him I knew it was windy but the handling was unsafe.

So I'm rescheduled to return this weekend for another test tow. After I got home today I started educating myself further on wdh and sway control. My thoughts are that I need stronger arms but not so strong that they bend the frame of the trailer as although it weighs 4300 it's an "ultra light". I would like to get your opinions as well as your thoughts on this as well as adding a set of dual cam sway controllers instead of a friction sway controller (I read lots of good stuff about them).

I took some pics of my wdh and some pics of it hooked up to the X213. Do the arms look too tight? The pics are a bit small because I forwarded them from my iPhone in a smaller format as I wasn't sure of the file size limitations on the forum.

Sorry for the ramble. Thanks in advance!

Wayne
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:37 PM   #2
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If you want to completely eliminate sway before it starts, get a Hensley or Propride hitch.

I've towed 50,000 + miles of sway free towing with the Hensley.

Propride was not available when I bought my Hensley in 2001.

You can find them used for big savings.

Worth every penny.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:59 AM   #3
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Looks like the snap up brackets are too far forward. Looks like the angle of dangle is not correct on your ball mount. Normally with the trailer unhooked and the ball mount in the receiver hitch the ball should tilt slightly away from your tow vehicle. This causes the spring bars to point slightly towards the ground. When you snap up, the bars should be mostly parallel to the ground, your vehicle should be "level" front to back, and the ball centerline pretty much plumb.

It takes an hour or 2 of adjusting to get everything right and the comments from the "techs" sound like those of some inexperienced high schoolers that don't want to do any work.

Get the owners manual for the hitch system, take the trailer home, load it up as closely as possible to how it will be when you travel, load up the TV including all the passengers and gear, and adjust it yourself. If you need to, get some help from someone who is mechanically inclined.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:15 AM   #4
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The chain to the brackets should be straight vertically to the bars. The bars look too high... they should be parallel to the ground or close. Here's some possible help:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/17730894.cfm

If it was me, I'd want some sway control and if that meant buying a new WDH or adding a friction bar, that's what I'd do. Clearly you were not comfortable with your present set-up.

You might also want to find another dealer and get a pro to do the set-up if you're not comfortable doing it yourself.

Good luck
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:57 AM   #5
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Wayne,

It's obvious by your photos that the WDH isn't adjusted properly. A properly adjusted "round" spring bar WDH should have the bars running parallel to the TT A-frame once the snap-up brackets are engaged, this can be accomplished by adjusting the degree of ball mount tilt in conjunction with the required amount of weight transfer.. Also, the spring bars move forward/backward during TV turns so to insure adequate freedom of motion the the snap-up chain should be vertical when the TV/TT is straight.

Yes, the addition of the friction sway control device would help under windy conditions once the WDH is adjusted properly. Keep in mind that the WDH adjustment should be checked once any TV/TT combination is under "loaded" conditions.

RV and WDH manufactures recommend that the loaded tongue weight should be 10% to 15% of the loaded TT weight, so your PUP's 600lb rated WDH should be "ok" for the X213 when the loaded tongue weight is closer to 10% (not 15%). IMO with the low CCC of the X213 I think that the loaded TT weight will be approaching it's 5,500lb GVWR, and a 800lb rated WDH would support the 10% to 15% loaded tongue weight range (550lbs to 825lbs) more effectively. Look for a yellow sticker on the TT for the actual "ship weight", ignore the publicized UVW.

When confirming/comparing the specified weight limitations of your TV, always think in terms of "loaded" weights with the TT you are considering. Confirm that there aren't any WDH rating restrictions noted on the TT's A-frame.

Hope this helps.

Bob
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:37 AM   #6
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Thanks for the responses everyone. Can anyone explain why the round bars should run parallel with the A frame? The "Tech" said that the bars are designed to bend upwards and that my bars could even bend further and take more load. I plan on stopping by the dealer today to see what they have in stock for WDHs and think I'll have a sit down with my salesman. I just want to have as much info so they don't try and baffle me with BS.
Cheers!
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:18 AM   #7
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Looking at pic #3, it appears that the hitch nuckle is rotated too much. It looks like it's adjustable and rotating the assembly down would allow the bars to have their needed tension while being more parallel to the TT frame. 70-80 kph wind! I'll bet that was "exciting"!
Do you have the owners manual for the hitch? If not, search the interweb for a copy.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:29 AM   #8
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This may not be the exact model but take a look:

http://www.proseriestowing.com/conte...ion/N49581.pdf
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:40 AM   #9
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Another thought. If you up to the limits of the TV, that could have a negative affect on the dirveability.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:44 AM   #10
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That weight distro is set up all wrong and see so many like that going down the road. Those bars are supposed to be parallel with the tongue tubes and the ball angle needs to be rocked back quite a bit.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
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snip........Can anyone explain why the round bars should run parallel with the A frame? The "Tech" said that the bars are designed to bend upwards and that my bars could even bend further and take more load.....snip
Wayne,

Keeping the spring bars parallel to the TT A-frame provides adequate clearance between the spring bar "tail" and the TT A-frame during TV turns, thus reducing the possibility of a binding condition. As the TV makes a turn the tail of the spring bar will start to "rise" a little toward the TT frame, the harder the turn, the higher the rise.

The tech is correct that the spring bars may be able to take more load, but even under heavier load condition there is no reason the tech can't re-adjust the WDH ball mount tilt so that the spring bar is parallel (assuming correct weight transfer is maintained).

In some cases it may be difficult to be "dead on" parallel, so a "slight" upward or downward spring bar angle is acceptable.

You will find that WDH's with round style spring bars require a parallel relationship with the TT frame where WDH's with a trunnion style spring bar can be parallel or have a modest downward relationship to the TT frame.

The top portion of the link that member 'Quahog" provided in his first response is a great reference on what is involved in adjusting a WDH properly. I'm sure after reading the information provided you will know than the dealer tech!

Bob
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:52 PM   #12
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Hey thanks alot everyone! I went back to the dealer today. I got the slight impression that I'm a bit more of a pain than what the dealer is accustomed too but the lady in the service dept was very nice about things.

I showed her the same pics that I posted above and asked her if she saw any problems. She basically said what the rest of you did but said that for test tows the techs don't usually dial everything in to be perfect as their paid by the hour. She said that once I buy the trailer that they'll set up the WDH for my vehicle.

I can see her point but on the other hand it makes you question the "nickel and diming" some businesses do to save a buck. I feel its short sighted and costs more in the end. I've been in and out of this place for the last couple weeks and had my WDH been dialed in on my previous test tow I would have signed the line and pulled the trailer off their lot.

The service lady said they hooked up my friction control bar to the trailer and its all ready for my next test tow this weekend. She said that my current 600lb WDH and friction control bar will be enough for this trailer but after my last experience I think I'm gonna upgrade.

I got a quote on a 800lb round bar Reese strait-line WDH with dual cam sway control for $643 Canadian (I plan to shop around for a better price). Any thoughts on this set up and any suggestions whether I should go round bar or trunnion bar?
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:02 PM   #13
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
snip.......I got a quote on a 800lb round bar Reese strait-line WDH with dual cam sway control for $643 Canadian (I plan to shop around for a better price). Any thoughts on this set up and any suggestions whether I should go round bar or trunnion bar?
Wayne,

The Reese HP Dual Cam WDH is a great hitch which has integrated sway control so you don't have to remove anything when you back the TV/TT into a campsite. The Dual Cam is a much more effective sway control system than the friction bar, but like any WDH proper installation and adjustment is important.

As far as style of spring bar, I would recommend staying with the round spring bars since the TT ball coupler is welded to the top of the A-frame, thus minimizing any potential clearances issues around the front area of the A-frame.

Bob
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:21 AM   #15
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Tilt your hitch down...that looks to be the major problem. With my Traverse I only drop 3 links on my chains and that is sufficient, but my hitch is tilted down, not up like your is.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:36 PM   #16
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Ok, So yesterday I went to the dealer again for my re-test tow. I brought along a buddy of mine who works for the Commercial Vehicle Safety Authority (CVSE also known as DOT to some). He knows a bunch about towing, hitching etc. We got my hitch set up proper and took the X213 out for another haul. It definitely towed better but I did come to the realization that this TT is too much rig for my Jeep.

The wife and I toyed with the idea of even upgrading our TV to a Ford F150 but we realized that although we love camping its still just camping and has no real bearing on our day to day lives and finances.

So after this revelation we decided to stick with the X19H and possible even go with the X17Z. As stated previously the X19H weighs 700 lbs less and is 3 1/2 feet shorter than the X213. The X17Z is about 400 lbs less than the X19H and another 2 feet shorter. We're going back to the dealer first thing in the morning to take a closer look and spend some time in each (I think our salesman is starting to hate us .

I don't think we're gonna do a test pull this time. I already know the Jeep CAN pull the heavier/longer X213 and I plan on upgrading from my current 600lb WDH with friction bar to a 600 lb WDH with dual cam sway control so I think with that said either should pull fine.

I have read that the X19H is still a bit of a beast to tow which is why we're considering the X17Z but seeing as its only slightly shorter and 400lbs lighter I don't think there is a major difference. The X19H is also a tandem axle which I'm sure makes up for some of that 400lb weight difference between it and the X17Z. Being that it's tandem axle I'm guessing that it should handle slightly better as well.

All this being said the last month and a half have been tiring to say the least with all the decisions about what to buy and not buy and I (and especially my wife hope to have a decision made and a deal struck by noon tomorrow.

I really appreciate the assistance you have all offered and would still welcome your thoughts if you have any to offer.

Cheers!
Wayne
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:06 PM   #17
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Wayne,

Sounds like your do-diligence will insure that you end up with a good TV/TT combination. If you plan to go with a Reese HP Dual Cam WDH, please note that it requires at least a 400lb loaded tongue weight to be effective, which is doable with both the X17Z and X19H.

If for some reason you feel that your loaded tongue weight will be less than 400lbs on the TT you select, you can look into the Reese SC WDH which covers a loaded tongue weight range of 200lbs to 600lbs (http://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distr...e/RP66151.html).

The Reese SC WDH is better than a standard friction control sway bar, and the Reese HP Dual Cam WDH is better than the Reese SC WDH.

Just a little more info to have on hand

Bob
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:44 PM   #18
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Thanks for the advice Rustic Eagle. My Jeep has the Quadra lift air suspension which self levels. Do you think this would interfere with the operation of either WDH? The parts guy at the dealer initially showed me a hitch similar to the Reese in the link you posted. After hearing about my suspension the parts guy at the dealer said he didn't think that hitch would work. Any thoughts?
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:12 PM   #19
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The Hensley Cub will work with your trailer and air suspension on your tow vehicle.

http://hensleymfg.com/products/the-hensley-cub/
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:56 PM   #20
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I would love to get a Hensley and think I may have stuck with the larger x213 tt if I had one but I don't have the cash to buy one out right. I asked my rv dealer about them and whether they could get one in but they said they had never heard of the brand (welcome to the Canadian North where were about 5 yrs behind everybody else
My thoughts were if I could get one tossed into the financing that I'd get one but doesn't look like that's gonna happen. So I figure the next best thing is the Reese dual cam set up.
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