Dual Batteries blowing power converter?

[BeemerBob]

After running the online diagnosis suggested by progressive dynamics, it seems my power converter needs replacing

Shortly before I started having problems with the power converter, I had installed a second battery (in parallel). Would the load of the second battery cause the power converter to fail?

Second question. My current power converter is a progressive dynamics PD4045k. Is there a better replacement that will fit in the same hole?



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[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by BeemerBob

After running the online diagnosis suggested by progressive dynamics, it seems my power converter needs replacing

Shortly before I started having problems with the power converter, I had installed a second battery (in parallel). Would the load of the second battery cause the power converter to fail?

Second question. My current power converter is a progressive dynamics PD4045k. Is there a better replacement that will fit in the same hole?



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Is it possible that you wired the batterys in series instead of parallel? That would bump the power to 24 volts and would certainly blow your converter.

[Murff]

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

Is it possible that you wired the batterys in series instead of parallel? That would bump the power to 24 volts and would certainly blow your converter.

My first thought, too!

Murff

[BeemerBob]

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

Is it possible that you wired the batterys in series instead of parallel? That would bump the power to 24 volts and would certainly blow your converter.

Unlikely. The installation of the second battery was actually done at a dealership. It is possibly that the person doing the work originally messed it up but corrected it later. Now, a few days later, the converter is making a shrill noise. Following the troubleshooting guide, the output of the converter ranges from 13.7 to 14.5

With the converter off, I measure 12.5 at an interior light.


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[trento]

That's normal voltage when charging.

[Seann45]

It could be just a coincidence that your converter failed just after installing a second battery. One battery or 10 the converter does not know the difference it just keeps charging till the bank is full.

[ctbailey]

Seann is correct. A battery is just a "hole" that the converter tries to fill with voltage. The algorithm becomes just a function of time needed to get to "full."

Once you've verified that all the connections are good including grounds...

My guess is the dealership wired it bad at some point.

[BeemerBob]

I spoke with a tech at Progrssive Dynamics. He confirmed that the votage outputs were within range, but that some component other than the fan was causing the noise. He did feel that it was not necessarily going bad and if we could live with the sound or able to switch it off at night, we should be ok. Also he felt the dual battery should not be the culprit other than it would take longer to charge dual batteries thus working the converter longer/harder.

As long as I have shore power for ready recharge, I don't see a problem with just shutting it off when we go to sleep. But I remain concerned that an electronic device that didn't used to but is now making a noise is not beginning to fail.

The tech at PD told me that the PD4060csv would fit in the same spot as the PD4045k that I currently have. My current model outputs 45 watts where as the 4060 outputs 60 watts. That increased wattage would be able to recharge batteries quicker off the generator when dry camping. BUT, can my trailer wiring handle the increased wattage??? I think my wife would be pissed if I set the trailer on fire while we are inside.

[RayPayne]

Your only talking about 4 amp going to 5 amps. Most of my cheat sheets for wiring only go down to 5 amps.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/am...uge-d_730.html

[octane]

Originally Posted by BeemerBob

The tech at PD told me that the PD4060csv would fit in the same spot as the PD4045k that I currently have. My current model outputs 45 watts where as the 4060 outputs 60 watts. That increased wattage would be able to recharge batteries quicker off the generator when dry camping. BUT, can my trailer wiring handle the increased wattage??? I think my wife would be pissed if I set the trailer on fire while we are inside.

you probably mean 45/60 amps instead of watts, you just need to check the wire going from the charger to the battery, if it's a 6 gauge, that should be fine.

[BeemerBob]

Originally Posted by octane

you probably mean 45/60 amps instead of watts, you just need to check the wire going from the charger to the battery, if it's a 6 gauge, that should be fine.

Correct. I misspoke. It is the difference between 45 amps and 60 amps not watts. Big difference!

According to the cheat sheet previously posted, it appears that I may need 4 gage.

I called a Jaco dealer and the said that I "may" require some wires to be replaced but I would have to bring it in for them to evaluate. I would think there would be some resource on line that would say what the gage and length is to the battery.

[SkyBound]

I have a progressive dynamics 55A smart converter which was designed to fit in the stock converter cavity. I think it's the PD4655. It's been great so far. The original one was 55A WFCO so I didn't change the current. It doesn't make any noise unless I really load up the draw and then then fan kicks on.

[Bassdogs]

If this is a new RV, take it back to the dealer and demand that they replace the converter under warrantee. 2 batteries or 10 batteries wired correctly won't blow your converter or cause it to make {non fan] noise. What you are hearing is not normal. I have never heard anyone who turns off the converter at night so they can sleep. The dealer is jerking you around. Also is little doubt that who ever installed the 2nd battery screwed something up. Simple problem solving will always lead you to the last thing that you changed before the problem popped up. If they did connect 24 volts it likely burned up something inside the converter. The other possibility is that even though the hooked up the 2nd battery in parallel as intended, they may have cross wired the positive and negative leads. Either way its a dealer problem and I would head to the general managers office if service dept gives you any grief.

[Subaru297]

Unless you plan to add even more batteries in the future I wouldn't bother to upgrade to the 60amp charger. The charger can only put in what the batteries will take and for probably 90% + of the charge time your two 6volt batteries won't even take 30amps. They will only take that amount of current if they are very discharged and even then that current draw will be short lived.
The 60 amp charger will never get utilized unless you have a larger battery bank.

[BeemerBob]

Originally Posted by Subaru297

Unless you plan to add even more batteries in the future I wouldn't bother to upgrade to the 60amp charger. The charger can only put in what the batteries will take and for probably 90% + of the charge time your two 6volt batteries won't even take 30amps. They will only take that amount of current if they are very discharged and even then that current draw will be short lived.
The 60 amp charger will never get utilized unless you have a larger battery bank.

It's two 12v deep cycle batteries. Does that charge your recommendation? My goal is be able to recharge the batteries quicker when running the generator after dry camping.

[Mustang65]

Originally Posted by BeemerBob

It's two 12v deep cycle batteries. Does that charge your recommendation? My goal is be able to recharge the batteries quicker when running the generator after dry camping.

Deep cycle batteries are not like automotive batteries... deep cycle batteries need to be charged slowly. The TT charge controllers are 3 stage chargers for that reason. Deep cycle batteries hate to have there voltage level drop below 12.0VDC. It shortens their USEFUL life. Most think a dead battery is when the lights no longer light up, or the furnace shuts down... a dead battery is when the battery voltage is 10.5 VDC, the battery damage has been done at this point.

You do not need a different charge controller, it sounds like you need to have it replaced for safety reasons. Call the dealer and tell him to order a warranty replacement. If they do not want to, send Jayco an email telling them that the charge controller is making noise, and you can not live with the noise and may not be safe

As for the batteries, has either one been totally discharged ?

Charge them 24 hours, pull the main fuse, check the voltage 24 hours later.. should be around 12.8 12.6 volts.
If you need 30 amps to charge your batteries, you are discharging them well below 12.0vdc or a bad battery
Don

[BeemerBob]

Good info Don. Thanks. I will do that test after returning home Monday.

I failed to mention, my unit is over 3 years old, so there is no warranty. One of the batteries is new but the other one is original so it may not be up to snuff. When I get home and the batteries are fully charged, I'll disconnect them and test after 24 hrs as you described.

So a 60 amp wouldn't charge any faster? What then is the purpose of the higher amp converters?

[BeemerBob]

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

If this is a new RV, take it back to the dealer and demand that they replace the converter under warrantee. 2 batteries or 10 batteries wired correctly won't blow your converter or cause it to make {non fan] noise. What you are hearing is not normal. I have never heard anyone who turns off the converter at night so they can sleep. The dealer is jerking you around. Also is little doubt that who ever installed the 2nd battery screwed something up. Simple problem solving will always lead you to the last thing that you changed before the problem popped up. If they did connect 24 volts it likely burned up something inside the converter. The other possibility is that even though the hooked up the 2nd battery in parallel as intended, they may have cross wired the positive and negative leads. Either way its a dealer problem and I would head to the general managers office if service dept gives you any grief.

To clarify, my unit is over 3 years old.

It was Progressive Dynamics (the manufacturer of the converter) that suggested just to turn it off at night and not a dealer.

It was the jayco dealer where I purchased the unit new that said I may need to chang some wiring to be able to accomadate a 60 amp converter.

I have not yet contacted the non jayco dealer that installed the second battery. I wanted to be better informed before I accused them of damaging my converter. It's possible that it is just a coincidence, but it is suspecious.

I do know that they did this while my my unit was in the parking lot, so there was no shore power. I would think that there would be some isolator between battery and converter.

Monday I'm going to call progressive dynamics and ask if the batteries had been done is series for a short time if that could have damaged the converter

[BeemerBob]

Just to follow up with my resolution to this issue.

First, I conferred with several sources including the manufacturer of my power converter and confirmed that multiple batteries does not put a heavier load on the converter. It may only cause the converter to run longer to charge (depends on level of discharge)

Second, according to power dynamics, if the shop had incorrectly hooked up the batteries in series, it would not of caused the converter to fail.

So it seems that it was just a coincidence that my converter failed shortly after installing the dual batteries. Without any support from the manufacturer that the dealer may have caused the problem, it was not prudent for me to make any accusations towards the dealer.

I ended up just replacing the converter. I could have purchased a refurbished unit for about $150. But I have good sam extended warranty with a $200 deductible so I just had a authorized shop replace the unit with a new one that has a two year warranty.

Thanks to all for your input and happy camping y'all.


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[Bassdogs]

Maybe, but I remain suspect. Throwing 24 amps into a 12 amp system is not a good thing. Do this to your car and see what happens to your starter system.

Final thought. You should never add a new battery to an older one like you said you did. Batteries should not be mixed or you will reduce the life of the new one.

Glad you got your problem resolved and for $200 it probably wasn't worth pressing the issue with an uncooperative dealer or service center.