Need help installing Surge Protector

[gdiep]

I'm considering installing a wired-in surge protector (Surge Guard 34520). I have a 2011 StarCraft Travelstar 187tb. Where is the ideal place to install it, and where is the main electrical wiring to connect this to?

Thanks for helping a newbie.

[sennister]

I haven't looked at this exact unit but I would compare it to a Progressive Industries unit. The one thing I like about the inside mounted Progressive units is that they are fully serviceable. If you take a surge hit, most units (don't care what brand) will take damage. With the Progressive you open a panel and there is a separate board that can be swapped out which is the part that takes the hit and you are back up and running. They also have 24x7 support and lifetime warranty. Though I don't know if a surge is a warranty issue. Cost wise they are pretty close. Your call.

Anyhow you need to look where your power comes into your camper. They are all different. In mine there is the heavy outdoor cable that gets stuffed into a hole in the back left corner. That hole is under the bath tub/shower. I have bunks next to the bath and if I pull the matterss for the lower bunk there is a storage area as well as an access panel for the hot water bypass. I open that access panel and there is an electrical box near which is where the heavy duty outdoor power goes in and the indoor electrical power comes out to run to the converter. This is where you want to tap into it. For me I have enough room for the surege protector in this area behind the water heater so I will open that box and remove it. Pull some more of the outdoor power cord to the input on the surge protector and run the internal wire on the output side. While this will make my outside cord a bit shorter that is fine. I plan on cutting it anyhow and installing an external twist lock port anyhow where it passes through the external wall. I don't like stuffing the power cord in the hole and want to seal the point of access for rodents.

Again this is my camper but look at where the power comes in your camper and for any beds or cabinets on the other side of the wall from that point as a place to start.

[jasum]

Man you should work for Progressive.......or maybe you do


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[jasum]

gdiep Surge Guard is a good product.
Probably the easiest way to install is behind where your fuse box is. You should be able to see where the heavy cable connects to fuse panel.


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[sennister]

Originally Posted by jasum

Man you should work for Progressive.......or maybe you do


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No, but I was recently shopping for them. I kept going over the reviews on a lot of the various brands and I started seeing a pattern. People saying they work great and saved my camper followed by I bought a new one to replace it. That got me thinking, so you can fork out $100 or so on an external one but if you get zapped once you are at $200. Not that you will ever get zapped. But for that price I could have gone with an internal one which I don't have to worry being out in the elements or getting stolen. As I mentioned Camping World had the internal Progressive EMS 30A on sale last weekend for $219. I see it is still on sale. I'm not saying Surge Guard is a bad product. Just they are virtually the same price and I don't know that you can open it up to service it like you can with the Progressive. As I mentioned I haven't contacted them to see if that surge board is covered under warranty but even if it isn't it is worth it because it probably is a heck of a lot less expensive than replacing a $100 or in the case of the unit that the OP is looking at a $200 unit. I have no experience with that one so I was only pointing out that if it is an internally mounted protector might as well go with one that is serviceable. If it was double the price then maybe not but it was about a $2 difference and I have seen a lot of positive feedback on Progressive and at least on Camping World there were no reviews of SG.

I have never been hit with a surge personally. However we normally dry camp and use generators so it is less likely. About 5 years ago my In-Laws had a Montana 5th Wheel. They got zapped and got by lucky in that only the bedroom TV took a hit. I opened it up and replaced the capacitors in it and they were back up and running. This year I know of two people that have been hit. A buddy down the road from me lost neutral in his house. Caught the surge protector on fire that was hooked up to their business computer. Saved the computer, burned the carpet. They also lost 3 TVs. Just last week my sister called (from her cell phone). Their office took a hit and blew out 3 surge protectors which knocked out their phone system and computer network and several PCs. The office is in town and while the house that got hit is in a rural area where we live, they are examples of places which normally have good power getting zapped and we are not even in storm season. Both cases the weather was fine with not even any rain. Also not RV parks with shady power sources.

Maybe I can get a discount on that Progressive EMS I was looking at. I haven't ordered yet because I can't decide if I wanted the cheaper one for $219 or so or fork out the extra $70 for the one with the remote display.

[Seann45]

I wired mine into where the power cable comes through the wall..

[eng45ine]

Originally Posted by sennister

Camping World had the internal Progressive EMS 30A on sale last weekend for $219.

Thanks for posting this, I have the external EMS, but for the price, I will purchase the internal one and have the external as a backup.

[jasum]

Originally Posted by sennister

No, but I was recently shopping for them. I kept going over the reviews on a lot of the various brands and I started seeing a pattern. People saying they work great and saved my camper followed by I bought a new one to replace it. That got me thinking, so you can fork out $100 or so on an external one but if you get zapped once you are at $200. Not that you will ever get zapped. But for that price I could have gone with an internal one which I don't have to worry being out in the elements or getting stolen. As I mentioned Camping World had the internal Progressive EMS 30A on sale last weekend for $219. I see it is still on sale. I'm not saying Surge Guard is a bad product. Just they are virtually the same price and I don't know that you can open it up to service it like you can with the Progressive. As I mentioned I haven't contacted them to see if that surge board is covered under warranty but even if it isn't it is worth it because it probably is a heck of a lot less expensive than replacing a $100 or in the case of the unit that the OP is looking at a $200 unit. I have no experience with that one so I was only pointing out that if it is an internally mounted protector might as well go with one that is serviceable. If it was double the price then maybe not but it was about a $2 difference and I have seen a lot of positive feedback on Progressive and at least on Camping World there were no reviews of SG.

I have never been hit with a surge personally. However we normally dry camp and use generators so it is less likely. About 5 years ago my In-Laws had a Montana 5th Wheel. They got zapped and got by lucky in that only the bedroom TV took a hit. I opened it up and replaced the capacitors in it and they were back up and running. This year I know of two people that have been hit. A buddy down the road from me lost neutral in his house. Caught the surge protector on fire that was hooked up to their business computer. Saved the computer, burned the carpet. They also lost 3 TVs. Just last week my sister called (from her cell phone). Their office took a hit and blew out 3 surge protectors which knocked out their phone system and computer network and several PCs. The office is in town and while the house that got hit is in a rural area where we live, they are examples of places which normally have good power getting zapped and we are not even in storm season. Both cases the weather was fine with not even any rain. Also not RV parks with shady power sources.

Maybe I can get a discount on that Progressive EMS I was looking at. I haven't ordered yet because I can't decide if I wanted the cheaper one for $219 or so or fork out the extra $70 for the one with the remote display.

Get the one with the display. You can look at it anytime and know what is going on with the electric.

In 05 I had New 5th wheel at the time and was staying in a scrappy campground. They had electrical problems and I ended up having a new tv get taken out and several other problems from staying there.
IF I would have had an ems at that time I'm sure I would never had any of those problems.

[sennister]

Originally Posted by eng45ine

Thanks for posting this, I have the external EMS, but for the price, I will purchase the internal one and have the external as a backup.

Not a problem. This thread reminded me that I really should just order one as well. Not sure how long the sale is going on.

As I mentioned I am debating between the one I linked to and the one with remote display for I think $70 more. The problem is I don't know where I would mount the remote display for sure. Ideally it would be next to the thermostat but I don't know how I would get the wire there. They sell an optional remote switch for bypass if needed which is also nice. I think the bypass might be needed if you are on generator. It still does surge protection but the EMS side might kick out when the AC fires up or at least I have seen where some people have had this happen. I am going to be pushing my numbers on my generator. It is a Yamaha EF3000i which can do 3500 watt surge but my camper has the upgraded 15K AC so I wish it was a little bigger at 4K. I haven't tested it yet. Might need to upgrade the startup cap in the AC unit.

[eng45ine]

If my installation location is under the bathroom sink, I would likely install the remote display in the bathroom cabinet. My TT is on storage, I take a look at it tomorrow.

[sennister]

Originally Posted by jasum

Get the one with the display. You can look at it anytime and know what is going on with the electric.

In 05 I had New 5th wheel at the time and was staying in a scrappy campground. They had electrical problems and I ended up having a new tv get taken out and several other problems from staying there.
IF I would have had an ems at that time I'm sure I would never had any of those problems.

I agree that for $70 more that I think it is that it might be nice. It also includes the bypass switch which I might need anyhow with my generator. The biggest problem is I don't know where to mount the display. I would like it up near the thermostat but getting wires there in my camper will be a challenge. Since I might just glance at it to see what is going on I might just mount it near the floor at the bottom of the bunk. The only other easy option is inside the storage area under that lower bunk but it would be a pain to get to.

I really would like an employee discount on one though..

EDIT: I guess it is only $55 more. I will probably go that route as I was leaning that way. I want to sign up for Good Sam first as I think I get an additional discount. Also I saw with a 2 or 3 year GS membership right now they give you a $25 gift cert for CW.

[sennister]

Originally Posted by eng45ine

If my installation location is under the bathroom sink, I would likely install the remote display in the bathroom cabinet. My TT is on storage, I take a look at it tomorrow.

You need this one if you want the remote display.

30-amp Surge Protector with Voltage Protection - Progressive EMS-HW30C - Surge Protectors - Camping World

It appears that it can't be added to the less expensive one. You can just add the remote switch which will display anything. They mention something about display on the less expensive one but that is the display on the unit from my research.

[Tunce the traveler]

I installed mine just above the plywood box that contains the power cord. I disconnected the power cord from the panel then connected it to the surge protector on the left , bought 3' of wire and brought it out on the right and over to the panel. Total time from gathering tools to putting them back was about 1-1/2 hours.

[eng45ine]

Originally Posted by sennister

You need this one if you want the remote display.

30-amp Surge Protector with Voltage Protection - Progressive EMS-HW30C - Surge Protectors - Camping World

It appears that it can't be added to the less expensive one. You can just add the remote switch which will display anything. They mention something about display on the less expensive one but that is the display on the unit from my research.

Thanks for the link!

[eng45ine]

Originally Posted by Tunce the traveler

I installed mine just above the plywood box that contains the power cord. I disconnected the power cord from the panel then connected it to the surge protector on the left , bought 3' of wire and brought it out on the right and over to the panel. Total time from gathering tools to putting them back was about 1-1/2 hours.

A picture tells one thousand words.....thanks for sharing!

[jasum]

Not sure which trailer you have.

It really was not too bad to fish the wire thru mine to where I wanted it. Mine is easy to read. In 06 bought new 5th wheel and dealer installed surge ems and put the display down at floor level. That was fun trying to read.
This time I installed it........

[gdiep]

Originally Posted by Tunce the traveler

I installed mine just above the plywood box that contains the power cord. I disconnected the power cord from the panel then connected it to the surge protector on the left , bought 3' of wire and brought it out on the right and over to the panel. Total time from gathering tools to putting them back was about 1-1/2 hours.

Thanks for the picture. And thank you everyone for the response.

The reason I asked about the Surge Guard model is that someone I know is selling a gently used one. I can buy for $100.

The problem I have is that the 187tb is a 3 bunk hybrid with not a lot of cabinet space. The area around my fuse panel does not have any room and I would have to cut out a lot of wood paneling to expose the back of the electrical box shown in the photo.

I don't mind the mod, but I don't think I have a good space to mount this. I may have to go with a simple portable plug and risk the threat of the elements and/or theft.

[sennister]

Originally Posted by jasum

Not sure which trailer you have.

It really was not too bad to fish the wire thru mine to where I wanted it. Mine is easy to read. In 06 bought new 5th wheel and dealer installed surge ems and put the display down at floor level. That was fun trying to read.
This time I installed it........

To get it where I would want it I would have to go up the wall separating bunks from the bathroom then through the roof and back down the wall outside the bathroom to where the thermostat is. I may go back and look for other mounting locations.

[bansai]

Question for you guys.

Why would plugging a generator into your camper require you to bypass the EMS?

I've seen this mentioned before, but it doesn't make sense to me. Generators can and do fail, I'd want the EMS protecting my camper regardless of the power source.

The only possible thing I can think of is that most do not ground their generators to a ground stake, and so it is usually just grounded to the frame of the generator. Does the EMS stop working if you are grounded this way? Can anyone confirm? I'm getting ready to buy one of these too and we plan to use our generator a lot that I just bought.

If this is an issue for the internal ones, I'm definitely getting the external one instead. I guess I just wouldn't use it when I'm on generator power... which is bothersome.

[sennister]

Originally Posted by bansai

Question for you guys.

Why would plugging a generator into your camper require you to bypass the EMS?

I've seen this mentioned before, but it doesn't make sense to me. Generators can and do fail, I'd want the EMS protecting my camper regardless of the power source.

The only possible thing I can think of is that most do not ground their generators to a ground stake, and so it is usually just grounded to the frame of the generator. Does the EMS stop working if you are grounded this way? Can anyone confirm? I'm getting ready to buy one of these too and we plan to use our generator a lot that I just bought.

If this is an issue for the internal ones, I'm definitely getting the external one instead. I guess I just wouldn't use it when I'm on generator power... which is bothersome.

Here is my thought as I have read of it as well.

My camper has the upgraded 15K AC unit. Sales lady points this out as a positive. I point out that I am not sure it is because I am not sure my generator can run it.

Here is the problem. A surge protector just does that. Protects from spikes pretty much. Some might do a little more like look for a miswired outlet but is mainly there for a spike. If they take a spike you pretty much throw them away and buy a new one. Buy hey $100 is cheaper than 10x that much if it took out everything electrical in the camper. The EMS (internal or external) does more than that. It protects from spikes like the other and looks for miswired outlet. Also it watches for power fluctuations. If the power dips or rises too much also at the frequency. How close to 60hz is it and if any of these things get out of line it disconnects. It will analyze power and can come back if things return to normal.

So as far as the generator. I don't think it is so much of a ground thing but it could be. Easy fix as you mentioned. For me I have that 15K AC and a 3K (3.5K surge) inverter generator. Well I am not 100% sure how much a 15K AC unit will pull in sizing charts most say 4K-3.5K range so I am really going to be pushing it as my surge is on the low side. It isn't so much running the AC that is an issue but starting the compressor takes a big punch. That is why I mentioned replacing the startup capacitor with a larger one. That acts like a big battery or buffer to take some of the spike away from the generator when it tries to kick in. This is worse when people run generators on economy mode because they can't ramp up quick enough to support the load. All of this could drop the voltage that the EMS sees briefly and cause it to kick out. I won't speak to the others but the Progressive EMS (looking at the internal models) have a bypass. On the less expensive one you have to open it and move a wire or buy (or make) the optional bypass switch. The more expensive one has the remote display which has the bypass switch on the display. The bypass switch only bypasses this EMS feature. You still have surge protection. In theory with a big enough generator you should be fine with everything in place and running. I am pushing those limits with AC running but I don't know how much I will really run the AC to justify a new generator.

Also I guess the other possible issue is are you using a generator or an inverter generator. An inverter generator provides much cleaner power than a generator. Dirty power could trip it as well.

Are you better off going external? That is your decision. I hear of surge theft and forgetting them. Sure possible but I don't know how common. I didn't care for leaving them in the elements more than anything. Also power is different at every post. Is it going to be laying in the dirt or at an angle that might defeat water resistance. Can the external ones be serviced or are they weather resistant afterward? When comparing internal to external EMS versions there isn't a huge price difference. If not serviceable though that will get expensive if zapped.

This is my thoughts on the issues with EMS and generators. Maybe they are non issues and there is some other problem.