Surge Protector w/50 amp Plugs

[rwshelburne]

I have a question about installing a "hardwired" surge protector. Has anyone when doing the install of a surge protector hardwired a male plug and female plug on the surge protector box on opposing sides? My thinking is that if you ever have a problem with the surge protector you can just unplug it and remove the device from the circuit and then plug the remaining wires back together until you can replace the surge protector. Any problem with doing this?

Thanks

[Robbbyr]

I did that exact thing on my Seneca, I have the Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C which is far more than just a surge protector.

I sourced the parts I needed at my local Home Depot, so far I have never had to bypass my EMS but I know I can if needed.

[rwshelburne]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

I did that exact thing on my Seneca, I have the Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C which is far more than just a surge protector.

I sourced the parts I needed at my local Home Depot, so far I have never had to bypass my EMS but I know I can if needed.

That is the same Surge Protector that I am installing. Seem to make sense for ease of installation and if I ever needed to service it to be able to plug and play it into the RV. Thanks for your response. Looks like a little added expense on the front end but if I ever trade the trailer or need to remove it seemed like it would be worth it.

[REWahoo]

Wouldn't it be easier to purchase the portable version? Or are you concerned about theft?

Seems like you could use it inside the RV without the extra expense and work of adding male and female plugs to the hardwired version.

[rwshelburne]

Originally Posted by REWahoo

Wouldn't it be easier to purchase the portable version? Or are you concerned about theft?

Exactly, I like the ideal of securing it in the trailer and the remote display to monitor usage and the electrical system. My current trailer I installed a 30 amp hardwired but the new Jayco 330RSTS is 50 AMP and I planning of installing a surge protector in it. The surge protector has saved me from low voltage in one outing last year and I found the 50 amp at my own house was incorrectly wired and the surge protector would not allow my TT to energize. Well worth the money.....

[Robbbyr]

I have friend who had a 30-amp portable suppressor, he said he tried to always be diligent in using it. But one day several years ago he pulled into a campground just as a storm started. He raced out into the rain and plugged in leaving his water and sewer lines for after the storm. Didn't want to get any more soaked opening another compartment to retrieve the suppressor.

You can probably guess what happened! A nearby lightning strike a short time later created a surge. He lost his microwave and one TV. Luckily his A/C unit did not seem to be affected. He doesn't have that unit anymore, but the unit he has now has a hardwired unit!

[norty1]

I have a friend who did exactly that and is very satisfied with it.

[Sundancer330]

No need to remove an EMS unit, it comes with a bypass.

Enclosed blue jumper wire allows the user to bypass the computer circuit in the EMS in the event of computer failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV. This does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other features are disabled.

[REWahoo]

Originally Posted by rwshelburne

The surge protector has saved me from low voltage in one outing last year and I found the 50 amp at my own house was incorrectly wired and the surge protector would not allow my TT to energize. Well worth the money.....

I'm a believer - I installed the hard wired version of the EMC in the past two RV's we owned and will be ordering the EMS-HW50C next week for our new 5th wheel. We used those two RV's for a total of 10 years without a failure, so your "install plugs" idea is interesting as the law of averages may someday catch up with me.

The EMS-HW50C comes with a bypass wire in case of computer failure, so I wonder if doing a bypass when and if a problem occurs is any more work than installing the plugs? And then there is the expense of the four 50 amp plugs (M&F on the EMS and M&F inside your RV)?

EDIT: What Sundancer said...

[Sundancer330]

It sounds like a good idea but the Progressive units have a lifetime warranty and the computer board is plug and play, they will ship you a new board from NC. I don't like Marinco or similar twist lock plugs, I saw two boats burn due to electrical fires from twist lock shore power plugs. We talked to the fire marshal and he said you would not believe how many fires we have every summer due to these plugs. The pins get loose after time and arcing can occur and the connection heats up, scorches, and in some cases, catches fire because the current draw is unchanged, all of this happens long before a breaker can cut the power. When I ordered my boat last year I went with the newer Smartplug system. To each there own but I would not do it.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by Sundancer330

No need to remove an EMS unit, it comes with a bypass.

Enclosed blue jumper wire allows the user to bypass the computer circuit in the EMS in the event of computer failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV. This does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other features are disabled.

My unit can bypass the under/over-voltage protection by a switch on the remote display, however the surge suppression is still present. But if it does take a "hit", it won't work and has to come out to be repaired. Meanwhile I can keep camping, albeit now without suppression protection.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by Sundancer330

It sounds like a good idea but the Progressive units have a lifetime warranty and the computer board is plug and play, they will ship you a new board from NC. I don't like Marinco or similar twist lock plugs, I saw two boats burn due to electrical fires from twist lock shore power plugs. We talked to the fire marshal and he said you would not believe how many fires we have every summer due to these plugs. The pins get loose after time and arcing can occur and the connection heats up, scorches, and in some cases, catches fire because the current draw is unchanged, all of this happens long before a breaker can cut the power. When I ordered my boat last year I went with the newer Smartplug system. To each there own but I would not do it.

The plugs and receptacles I used are the same as the regular 50-amp campground connections (NEMA 14-50R), not twist locks. I also put a wire tie around the connections to keep the plugs fully seated as my unit bounces down the road. But if I need to unplug a quick "snip" and I can move the plugs.

[edatlanta]

I much prefer my portable EMS to a hard wired version. Mine hasn't taken flight in 7 years of just hanging around outside so I'm not concerned about that. What I do like about my portable (besides the obvious protection it provides) is when it gets zapped, which happened this past summer due to a lightning strike on a pine tree about a quarter of a mile away. One leg would not pass current, the second leg was fine. I just unplugged the dead one and plugged in my spare unit (yep I have 2 of them because I absolutely will not plug in anywhere without one in line) and I'm back in business. One quick all to PI and and a trip to UPS and my fried unit was on it's way back for warranty service/replacement. It was back in in less than a week, or I should say the replacement. It was too damaged for repair.

What will the hard wired crowd do? Bypass and be unprotected or have a spare circuit board that would have to be installed? I don't know how involved the circuit board replacement is, but it certainly is more involved than a quick unplug/plug.

To each his own, but plug and play is preferred for me.

[NorthPoint5r]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

I did that exact thing on my Seneca, I have the Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C which is far more than just a surge protector.

313.50$ on ebay and looks simple to install at the plug area of a North Point. I like the amps as it reads both L1 & L2 sides per manual. Has anyone installed this after the transfer switch for genny installs to protect genny power also.

One concern I have is if it cuts out power while you are away or like in your driveway the battery starts to drain towards destruction. Wish it could email me the problem?

[blujay40]

Originally Posted by rwshelburne

Exactly, I like the ideal of securing it in the trailer and the remote display to monitor usage and the electrical system. My current trailer I installed a 30 amp hardwired but the new Jayco 330RSTS is 50 AMP and I planning of installing a surge protector in it. The surge protector has saved me from low voltage in one outing last year and I found the 50 amp at my own house was incorrectly wired and the surge protector would not allow my TT to energize. Well worth the money.....

I am VERY interested in where you end up installing an internal EMS in your 330RSTS. I have the same trailer and am currently using an external unit because I just haven't found an acceptable/easily accessible place to install an internal one.

There is a large, open area under the sink/shower that would be great if not for it being too close to water lines/connections for me. The only other possible place I have found is above or behind the furnace, but those spots are rather narrow and might pose issues removing the cover to bypass/replace a board. There is probably more room behind the breaker panel itself, but I don't relish the thought of having to disconnect from the pedestal and remove the breaker panel just to bypass/replace the unit in the event of an issue.

So please update if you do end up installing an internal one.

[rwshelburne]

Ill let you know when I do the Mod....

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by NorthPoint5r

One concern I have is if it cuts out power while you are away or like in your driveway the battery starts to drain towards destruction. Wish it could email me the problem?

If it senses an under/over-voltage issue and cuts out, it will reset after a time delay. Frequently those issues are transient and resolve after a time. Obviously if it takes a surge and does its job it will not be able to come back on. Other error conditions such as open neutral, open ground, reverse polarity, etc., it will not connect initially but those issues are not likely to spontaneously occur if conditions were normal and things were working okay at hookup.

Maybe that gives you a little peace of mind!

[rwshelburne]

So I said I would follow-up on my plans to install the 50 Amp Progressive Surge Protector in my 2017 Jayco 330 RSTS. I had thought about installing plugs on each end of the surge protector to make it easy to remove but opted not to do that. I found the best location to be behind the Breaker box underneath the coat closet.



I pulled the four screws from the cover of the breaker box and then remove the two screws that held the breaker box into the cabinet. What a mess of wires. I determined that there would be no need to disturbing any wires on the breaker box itself other than using the 6/3 50 amp wire which ran from the back side of the plug to the breaker box. I determined I would use that as the load line from the surge protector. You can see the mass of wires behind the box.


The two white junctions boxes that you can see just behind the wood on the floor were screwed to the floor in the middle of this area that I was going to utilize for the surge protector. I relocated them along with a grounding block that must have contained 15 wires or so.



In the above picture you can see where I had fished the 6/3 wire from the power plug hole on the outside of the trailer to area which the surge protector was to the installed. In doing that, I removed the 4 screws from the plug and pulled the plug out from the trailer. I removed the wires from the back of the plug at this time and just fished the new wire thru the opening and connected it to the surge protector as per the instructions leaving considerable amount of wire outside the trailer power opening. I wanted to leave enough wire outside to have enough wire to work with on the inside. After attaching the supply wire and the load wires to each side of the surge protector I then placed the surge protector to the back up against the baseplate of the wall. I was going to run the display up to the control box but found it was too deep to allow the door to close so I optioned to put it in the glass cabinet above the coat closet and to the far right. This was a nice spot as it allows you to see the display thru the glass door of the cabinet



To remove the back of the inside of the cabinet you need to remove two screws on each side of the cover and two screws that come up from inside the coat closet. I then just tilted the back just so I can access the chase that all the wire run thru. Behind the cabinet cover you will find the brains for you handy dandy remote. You can see the well placed hole where the wires run thru. I was able to put a fish tape from the top down the chase and hook onto the data cable for the display.



You can see this picture was taken after I had connected the power to the surge protector. Actually after installing the display and before adding power I mounted the surge protector to the floor in the back of the cabinet. I then went outside and pulled any extra wire out of the exterior wall where the power comes into the trailer. I left approximately 3-4 ft of excess wire when I attached the wires to the exterior plug. Once the wires were attached I pushed the excess wire back into the wall. I figured if I need to service the surge protector that the extra wire would be need to give me enough room to pull the surge protector out from cabinet. Before I buckled everything up inside I had to screw in the grounding block to the floor and I place that on the far left of the inside of the cabinet which would be on the left side of the circuit breaker box.

Sorry for not having take a few more pictures of the final resting place of the surge protector nor of the wiring on the outside of the trailer but I think you can get the jest of everything.

Overall I am very please with where the display mounted because the red illuminated display is nearly at eye height and subdued by the smoked glass of the cabinet yet easily accessible.

I know someone is going to ask how much 6/3 wire you will need I had purchased 10 ft which was sufficient to do the install.

Any questions of anything that I missed or confused you about please let me know.

[blujay40]

Thanks rwshelburne for the detailed reply. Much appreciated!!

[Betty&Phil]

I want to install the ems-hw50c in our 2017 330RSTS. I am guessing I will have pull the converter to gain access to the shore power cable. Any suggestions will be appreciated.