Tired of ruining batteries!

[snowbird47]

As hard as I try, sometimes I forget to hit the battery disconnect switch after I bring the coach home from a trip (you get in late, have to unpack in a hurry, yada yada yada) and I go back in a few days to find my battery at less than 8V, which is basically 0% charged. I have ruined more than one battery this way, and I may have just ruined (or certainly damaged) a $200 Trojan AGM deep-cycle battery. I am tired of this.

I am hoping I have a solution. I have ordered a Powerwerx Compact Low Voltage Disconnect (LVD) Battery Guard which will supposedly shut off the system if the battery drops to a user set voltage (it ignores starting load voltage drops) and reconnects automatically when the voltage reaches 12.6V.

The item cost $99 with shipping, which is a lot cheaper than a good battery, and I hope it can save me from my own carelessness.

[SmokerBill]

Get some of these:

RVminders, Set of 10 - Vortex Media RVMX - Automotive Accessories - Camping World

[hoppers4]

There's a problem with this device in that you can't draw more than 35 amps through it. Your slideout, levelers, inverter (depending on what you're powering), or awning (if electric) will exceed this current rating.

[RodgerS]

Start with a reminder system that will work, like a big piece of butcher paper on the wall that says disconnect the batteries.

Second find out what is drawing down your batteries.

Third install a good battery recharging and maintenance system, after having your batteries evaluated.

Be sure to maintain the battery fluid levels and keep the connections, clean, dry, and tight.

As preparation for all this, there are lots of articles on the internet on these subjects to up skill your knowledge base, including those on basic electricity.

[gypsmjim]

I forget at least one thing every time. So, I made a checklist with about 25 items on it. Its laminated and in the car's glove compartment. When we leave the DW reads the items off and I fix something if I forgot. Haven't missed a thing yet and it only cost me 10 cents...

[Edd505]

Not sure why discharging a deep cycle battery ruins it. Put it on a charger as soon as you remember, plug it in when not in use, part of parking the unit.

[Fire_Instructor]

I second the "checklist" idea.... I see pilots who take-off and land sometimes 5 or 6 times a day using checklists for EVERY take-off and landing. There is something to that.....

[namusmc65]

If your unit is home with you, spend a little and get an outlet installed so that you can plug it in when you get home. Plug ours in as soon as we park it and never have a problem. I think I may have replaced a battery once in 30 years of trailering.

[Fairenatic]

A small solar panel hook up might just be the ticket to keep the unit charged when not in use. Should at least offset the gas detector draw and whatever else is still running\on when parked.

[snowbird47]

Originally Posted by hoppers4

There's a problem with this device in that you can't draw more than 35 amps through it. Your slideout, levelers, inverter (depending on what you're powering), or awning (if electric) will exceed this current rating.

We shall have to see about that. The device accommodates starting loads, so maybe it will handle them

Originally Posted by RodgerS

Second find out what is drawing down your batteries.
Third install a good battery recharging and maintenance system, after having your batteries evaluated.
Be sure to maintain the battery fluid levels and keep the connections, clean, dry, and tight.

The unit draws 300 milliamps when nothing is on except the CO/propane detector. Other people have said that is pretty normal. It takes at least 10 days to run the battery down if I forget the cutoff. Also, as I said it is an AGM battery, no fluid levels to check - and I check and maintain the connections regularly

Originally Posted by namusmc65

If your unit is home with you, spend a little and get an outlet installed so that you can plug it in when you get home. Plug ours in as soon as we park it and never have a problem. I think I may have replaced a battery once in 30 years of trailering.

I am only able to plug in for the six months of the year we are up North(hence the name "Snowbird47") when I am in Florida I have to park it in a storage facility with no electricity

Originally Posted by Fairenatic

A small solar panel hook up might just be the ticket to keep the unit charged when not in use. Should at least offset the gas detector draw and whatever else is still running\on when parked.

See statement above about being in a storage facility. It would be difficult to put out solar panels due to space and thievery considerations. Besides if I could remember to put out panels I would remember the cutoff

[RodgerS]

Edd505
I did a simple internet search "discharging a deep cycle battery." This provided the following information for you:

"A deep-cycle battery is designed to discharge between 45% and 75% of its capacity, depending on the manufacturer and the construction of the battery. Although these batteries can be cycled down to 20% charge, the best lifespan vs cost method is to keep the average cycle at about 45% discharge.[1] There is a direct correlation between the depth of discharge of the battery, and the number of charge and discharge cycles it can perform.[2]"

There are also plenty of internet write-ups on how batteries work, if you want to know what happens chemically when they charge and discharge, and how the battery eventually can not be recharged.

[RodgerS]

I took this off the internet for you, and yes I know AGM are sealed units, but they can suffer fluid losses. Since you like to pretend to know, rather than asking others to explain further, I will bow out of this discussion after this post:

Tricks to sustaining your AGM marine battery installation for years of use.

AGM Batteries are sealed units, with a positive atmosphere. This construction is designed to recombine the gases inside the battery a certain number of times, retarding the need for watering. However, there are a myriad of ways to hurt this battery, and they all have to do with the charger. This page is designed to help you to ensure your charging system, and you the owner, are doing everything in your power to safeguard that investment in your new AGM Marine Batteries. We will use the analogy of a closed water tank to describe the system, This way many that have less electrical understanding, can easily grasp the concepts.

A Battery is like a Water tank because each stores something;
Batteries Store Power
Water Tanks Store Water
Each is sealed (AGM especially).
And if you put the stuff in too fast, you harm the tank.
You put too much in the tank, and it pops.
You put the stuff in fast, and it takes less time.
The analogies go on, but I bet you get the point.

Float Voltages:
The first thing to consider is the float voltage. Once your battery is fully charged, you need to keep the power on it, but not too much. The tank is full. If you put the hose on full blast, you will blow the top....in a battery, you boil out the electrolyte. The float voltage is the voltage for the float mode of the charger, or the 3rd phase of a 3 phase charging regimen. The float charge should keep a battery "tipped up", at 100% charge, for ready deployment to the circuit. However, should your charger be overcharging the system because it has the wrong float voltage, you are actually overcharging your battery all the time. Check the manufacturer specifications, and ENSURE your float voltages are accurate or you are burning off battery life span every time the thing sits on.

Trickle Chargers are a NO-NO with AGM batteries.
AGM Batteries self discharge at a rate of 2% in the first 24 hours, and another 2% over each ensuing 30 days. This is 8% over 120 days, the longest you should ever leave your batteries unattended anyway. Based on most battery charger outputs, even the little ones, you will significantly overcharge the batteries should you put them on a trickle charger and leave them, UNLESS it is within the float voltage tolerances. See the float voltage for that discussion, but should you choose to use a 14.4 volt trickle charger for instance, on an AGM battery bank, you may well significantly overcharge the bank. Think of it like leaving the turkey in the oven on 200 for a week and a half....a bit dry wouldn't you say, lucky if you don't have a fire too...
===
It really pays to be a WA when you need help.

[gypsmjim]

Originally Posted by snowbird47

See statement above about being in a storage facility. It would be difficult to put out solar panels due to space and thievery considerations. Besides if I could remember to put out panels I would remember the cutoff

Adding 1 solar panel has completely solved my battery drain problem. No matter where the trailer is. Mount a panel on the roof and your battery will be maintained at 100% all the time.

I would think that a permanently mounted panel would be quite secure. If you had them just sitting loose on the ground that would be a different story.

If your security is that bad that someone could climb up on the roof and dismantle equipment, then I would be looking for a better place to go. "Uncle Bob's" storage facilities are gated with a security guard 24/7. Don't know if they are in the South too.

After having experience with AGM's in cars, boats, RV's etc. I have switched back to wet cells exclusively. At one time I had 7 vehicles on AGMs. Unless they are "properly" maintained thay sulfate badly, and then special charging is required. For me, that's too much to worry about.

[Edd505]

Originally Posted by RodgerS

Edd505
I did a simple internet search "discharging a deep cycle battery." This provided the following information for you:

"A deep-cycle battery is designed to discharge between 45% and 75% of its capacity, depending on the manufacturer and the construction of the battery. Although these batteries can be cycled down to 20% charge, the best lifespan vs cost method is to keep the average cycle at about 45% discharge.[1] There is a direct correlation between the depth of discharge of the battery, and the number of charge and discharge cycles it can perform.[2]"

There are also plenty of internet write-ups on how batteries work, if you want to know what happens chemically when they charge and discharge, and how the battery eventually can not be recharged.

Rodger Battery School Battery School | Batteriesnorthwest.com | General deep cycle battery care procedures
the rigs in storage w/o power so a smart charge is out - A reminder to connect is the best option. Done with this one

[gypsmjim]

Originally Posted by Edd505

the rigs in storage w/o power so a smart charge is out - A reminder to connect is the best option.

Not really. A solar panel with a good controller IS a smart charger. We boondock 100% and we NEVER have power.

[Rhumphers9a]

Originally Posted by RodgerS

I took this off the internet for you, and yes I know AGM are sealed units, but they can suffer fluid losses. Since you like to pretend to know, rather than asking others to explain further, I will bow out of this discussion after this post:

Tricks to sustaining your AGM marine battery installation for years of use.

AGM Batteries are sealed units, with a positive atmosphere. This construction is designed to recombine the gases inside the battery a certain number of times, retarding the need for watering. However, there are a myriad of ways to hurt this battery, and they all have to do with the charger. This page is designed to help you to ensure your charging system, and you the owner, are doing everything in your power to safeguard that investment in your new AGM Marine Batteries. We will use the analogy of a closed water tank to describe the system, This way many that have less electrical understanding, can easily grasp the concepts.

A Battery is like a Water tank because each stores something;
Batteries Store Power
Water Tanks Store Water
Each is sealed (AGM especially).
And if you put the stuff in too fast, you harm the tank.
You put too much in the tank, and it pops.
You put the stuff in fast, and it takes less time.
The analogies go on, but I bet you get the point.

Float Voltages:
The first thing to consider is the float voltage. Once your battery is fully charged, you need to keep the power on it, but not too much. The tank is full. If you put the hose on full blast, you will blow the top....in a battery, you boil out the electrolyte. The float voltage is the voltage for the float mode of the charger, or the 3rd phase of a 3 phase charging regimen. The float charge should keep a battery "tipped up", at 100% charge, for ready deployment to the circuit. However, should your charger be overcharging the system because it has the wrong float voltage, you are actually overcharging your battery all the time. Check the manufacturer specifications, and ENSURE your float voltages are accurate or you are burning off battery life span every time the thing sits on.

Trickle Chargers are a NO-NO with AGM batteries.
AGM Batteries self discharge at a rate of 2% in the first 24 hours, and another 2% over each ensuing 30 days. This is 8% over 120 days, the longest you should ever leave your batteries unattended anyway. Based on most battery charger outputs, even the little ones, you will significantly overcharge the batteries should you put them on a trickle charger and leave them, UNLESS it is within the float voltage tolerances. See the float voltage for that discussion, but should you choose to use a 14.4 volt trickle charger for instance, on an AGM battery bank, you may well significantly overcharge the bank. Think of it like leaving the turkey in the oven on 200 for a week and a half....a bit dry wouldn't you say, lucky if you don't have a fire too...
===
It really pays to be a WA when you need help.

Thanks RodgerS, to begin with I have always plugged my 5er in when arriving home within a day or two, I'm under the assumption that my converter knows the batteries conditions and chargers at a higher rate when its down but drops off the charge to very minimum once it is almost fully charged and stops charging till the batteries show enough loss for it to begin recharging??? Thanks again, Rhumphers9a

[RodgerS]

"A solar panel with a good controller IS a smart charger."

Yes, that is right and its an excellent solution. You can also pull the batteries out of your rig, if you can't find a storage facility with power access, take them home, and set up a solar charging system at your home, if you are not full-timing in an rv. So, no, a smart charger is not OUT.

Many RVs are stored in outdoors storage facilities as well and often use a solar recharging system.

[RodgerS]

I'm under the assumption that my converter knows the batteries conditions and chargers at a higher rate when its down but drops off the charge to very minimum once it is almost fully charged and stops charging till the batteries show enough loss for it to begin recharging???
=====
You can easily verify that by finding out what charger you have and checking the specs. Converters that come with units, and I am speaking in general, are usually basic models that are unfit for much, but get the unit out the door. I don't know what Jayco does but the premium Airstream units were basic converters that more savvy buyers eventually replaced.

Same for power management at the pedestal...most units come with nothing and new owners are often surprised to find out they need a power management device or upgrade.

Same with batteries. Often not the best quality batteries.

AGM batteries are not necessarily the best batteries to use or the most cost effective for RVs, but all depends on what one wants to accomplish.

[RodgerS]

Thanks for the internet link Edd505, which I am familiar with, but I have no clue what you were referencing.

Rather than rewrite information, I sometimes copy in material from a site to save time (takes a lot of time to write some of this stuff up and write it well), and may or may not provide the reference because the information is so easily available and is not anything special.

If one understands that this information is available easily on the internet, one should be able to answer a lot of their questions on their own. Teaching someone to fish rather than fishing for them all the time.

If you had read the website you provided, it would have explained why I told you about checking the fluid of an AGM battery: "Never charge a sealed (gel cell) battery with a wet battery charger. The higher voltages (above 14.8 volts) that a wet battery charger generates causes excessive gassing too fast for the sealed battery to recombine, causing dry-out and battery failure."

[snowbird47]

Quote from RogerS from a ways above, directed at me:

"Since you like to pretend to know, rather than asking others to explain further, "
That is really an insulting statement, Roger, and I said nothing to warrant it, so I am consigning you to the list of "know-it-all-********"

If all you guys would have bothered to notice, my original post was NOT A QUESTION. It was a statement about what I was planning to do. I did not need to be treated like an idiot. I know most of you meant well - Roger excepted, and I do appreciate suggestions.