Acura MDX and WDH - What to do?

[giddyup]

Originally Posted by dmward

Sounds like the "TSA" feature is more around sway control. This is common with tow packages (for example, see this on the F150 -

).

The WDH will NOT provide sway control, unless you get something like a dual cam setup (which does weight-distribution + sway).

Sounds like you're doing the proper research by contacting the vehicle manufacturer. Provide the details on the trailer that you are wishing to tow and ask them if they recommend that you tow it with the MDX. You might get a very different answer than from the RV dealer

Re: the sway control, you are 100% correct. But as part of a tow package, it is not as strong or capable as a good add-on WDH. I can disable the Acura TSA as there is a toggle for that. So I thought that I had the answer by disabling the TSA and using the Equalizer 600/6000, which includes a 4 point sway control. It is top rated.

But then Rustic Eagle and at least one other person focused in on the Unibody Construction, which means that the after market WDH could actually cause frame damage or . . . (fill in the blank). I will check with the factory and see if someone higher up the food chain can explain this in simple terms to me and I will post whatever I find.

Either way, we are happy because we will have our TT and we have time to figure out the rest of the equation. Thanks for the video.

[David472]

I recommend you read the article on page 6 of this on-line magazine.
http://rvlifemag.dgtlpub.com/?i=2321
If you want to contact the author, look at his dealership website here.
http://www.canamrv.ca/

[nbhybrid]

Originally Posted by giddyup

But then Rustic Eagle and at least one other person focused in on the Unibody Construction, which means that the after market WDH could actually cause frame damage or . . . (fill in the blank). I will check with the factory and see if someone higher up the food chain can explain this in simple terms to me and I will post whatever I find.

This is a wide spread rumor that Unibody construction is weaker than body on frame but there isn't one piece of evidence that I have found to prove it.

I have surfed the web far and wide to find an instance where a unibody had a complete failure of its hitch because of towing. I haven't found one.
The idea that a unibody can not allow leveraging the weight to the front end is pure conjecture and speculation.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by giddyup

snip.....Will try Acura again tomorrow and will post what I find.

It will be interesting to hear how they respond to your inquiry.

On a similar subject......,

I purchased a new Subaru Outback a couple of months ago with unibody construction, and have been looking into the weight/towing capabilities while considering a rooftop tent, and/or towing a small cargo (or tent) trailer for my hiking trips.

While doing my do-diligence I found that a member of a Subaru forum contacted Subaru of Canada in reference to weight distribution and the Subaru unibody. This is a very specific case and I wouldn't generalize it, but it was an interesting read.

Subaru forum link, reference Post #1: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...on-system.html

My point in sharing this is that I'm also working through a similar path of questions as yourself outside the JOF forum.

I did rule out towing my Jayco Eagle (it's not actually hitched):



Bob

[greobr33]

We have an '05 Pilot with an Equalizer and a X17Z. Go to a scale and set it up right and you will be fine. Please check with Acura, Honda rates the towing capacity of the Pilot with 4 adults and their luggage in the vehicle. The factory hitch has 12 attachment points where-as the after market units have 6-8 with the same published ratings. The factory hitch and mounting is over engineered. Honda USA recommends against a WDH because they are worried that it will be set-up wrong. Get all your weight limits and set it up.

We are right at the published limit on the towing, our X17Z is 3055 dry (which includes full propane per the sticker) and 300 TW. The '05 is rated at 3500# and 350 TW. We have air bags in the rear which I use often when loaded up and not towing. I aired them up with the WDH and they didn't change anything. Our front end raises 1/2 inch and the rear drops 1 1/4". We are within all the limits for axle weights and are right at the limit for total towing at 3500#. It is amazing how light you can pack when you need to. We just did did a bit over 3000 mile from Chicago to Yellowstone around a bit out west and back. No problems, perfectly stable. Ran out of some steam at 7500+ feet but pulled like a champ.

Find the MDX's limits and hit a scale. You can get a basic set-up with the Equalizer instructions, then use a scale from there to fine tune. Hope that helps a bit.

PS I did a lot of research over at Piloteers.org before towing also. They may have some MDX info there as well.

[giddyup]

Today, I spoke with an Acura factory rep; hitch mfg. guy; Acura regional service rep; Richardsons' RV; and a hitch distributor. Here's the deal as I now know it:

There are several overlapping issues:

1. The MDX has a 5k# towing capacity, but the hitch is limited to a Class III (4K# capacity) only. As you all likely know, if you add a WDH to Class III hitch, it increases its rating to 5K#. BUT, Acura "recommends" that you not use a WDH and that gives you a big disconnect between their advertised 5K# capacity and their "approved" 4K#. To me, this seems to be an issue of false advertising, but someone else will need to fight that battle.

2. According to Honda, the issue with the WDH install is twofold. The underframe of a Unibody constructed vehicle has nowhere near the strength of the old fashioned frames most of us grew up with. This means that a WDH could possibly add enough leverage to twist the frame. Acura says that the second issue is that the MDX pulls more from the front (even with AWD or 4WD) and that, too, can cause issues with the WDH. (I don't know . . . I think I stopped listening after the part about the frame twisting.)

BTW, the Acura factory rep said that he has photos to prove the twisting, but is not allowed to share those. The conversation was recorded with full ID given on both sides (including my VIN) and documented with a case #, so I have no reason to doubt him.

Acura also says that the installation of the WDH in itself does NOT void the warranty, BUT if there is an incident that causes the frame to twist, then that would not be covered by warranty.

3. Acura dealerships can install Class III (2" receivers) only. If you decide to go the Class III with a WDH route, it will need to be done by another shop.

4. Then there is the issue of the Acura tow package component of the Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) which I mistakenly called TSA in an earlier post. The manufacturer says that the Equalizer with 4 pt. sway control will eliminate the sway that causes the VSA to engage. There is also a switch that can turn it off.

All of the above was confirmed by the hitch distributor, etc. Richardson's double checked my research and confirmed what they could and were surprised at some of it; the Acura service guy was a bit clueless but knew they could not install anything other than what is listed above; and the Acura factory guy listened, understood, had experience with, and was able to explain all of the above from their POV and their policy.

Bottom line: As many of you have already decided, we are installing the WDH (Equalizer 600/6000) on the Class III hitch and moving on. We will be very careful to stay well within our weight guidelines and distribution and cautious in our near term driving.

There is definitely a new TT and a new TV in our future. If you are in Southern California, be on the lookout for an x20e with a renegade Beagle aboard. The refreshments are on us, but remember we can't tote a lot of beer as long as we are towing with the MDX.

Thanks for your help and I hope my research and posting has helped someone else.

[giddyup]

Originally Posted by greobr33

We have an '05 Pilot with an Equalizer and a X17Z. Go to a scale and set it up right and you will be fine. Please check with Acura, Honda rates the towing capacity of the Pilot with 4 adults and their luggage in the vehicle. The factory hitch has 12 attachment points where-as the after market units have 6-8 with the same published ratings. The factory hitch and mounting is over engineered. Honda USA recommends against a WDH because they are worried that it will be set-up wrong. Get all your weight limits and set it up.

We are right at the published limit on the towing, our X17Z is 3055 dry (which includes full propane per the sticker) and 300 TW. The '05 is rated at 3500# and 350 TW. We have air bags in the rear which I use often when loaded up and not towing. I aired them up with the WDH and they didn't change anything. Our front end raises 1/2 inch and the rear drops 1 1/4". We are within all the limits for axle weights and are right at the limit for total towing at 3500#. It is amazing how light you can pack when you need to. We just did did a bit over 3000 mile from Chicago to Yellowstone around a bit out west and back. No problems, perfectly stable. Ran out of some steam at 7500+ feet but pulled like a champ.

Find the MDX's limits and hit a scale. You can get a basic set-up with the Equalizer instructions, then use a scale from there to fine tune. Hope that helps a bit.

PS I did a lot of research over at Piloteers.org before towing also. They may have some MDX info there as well.

Thanks for the info, and we are on board with your plan. We are campers and know how to get by without a lot of stuff. Have you seen the kitchen in the x20e? It is tiny - works great for me, as I don't cook. Whoo Hoo! Look at all the packing we avoid with that one.

I will check out the site you mentioned. Check my latest post - hopefully, it recounts may last bit of research on this subject.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by giddyup

Today, I spoke with an Acura factory rep; hitch mfg. guy; Acura regional service rep; Richardsons' RV; and a hitch distributor. ......snip

Kathleen,

We appreciate greatly your follow-up and the detailed information provided. The information will be a great reference for others to consider when evaluating their own Acura MDX towing needs.

Travel safe and enjoy your X20E

Bob

[giddyup]

Originally Posted by nbhybrid

This is a wide spread rumor that Unibody construction is weaker than body on frame but there isn't one piece of evidence that I have found to prove it.

I have surfed the web far and wide to find an instance where a unibody had a complete failure of its hitch because of towing. I haven't found one.
The idea that a unibody can not allow leveraging the weight to the front end is pure conjecture and speculation.

I, too, searched for either a first hand experience or photos. It's like trying to hunt down the Loch Ness monster - everyone has heard of it but no one actually witnessed it. My closest personal confirmation was from an Acura factory rep - recounted in my earlier posting of this evening - elsewhere on this thread.

You've gotta admit, however, that it does give you a reason to ponder the workaround.

[giddyup]

Originally Posted by David472

I recommend you read the article on page 6 of this on-line magazine.
http://rvlifemag.dgtlpub.com/?i=2321
If you want to contact the author, look at his dealership website here.
http://www.canamrv.ca/

Thanks for the link to this article. I posted a long message earlier this evening recounting the results of another day spent sleuthing. We are having Richardson's RV do exactly what is suggested in this article. Without that we would otherwise be hog-tied to a 2" receiver.

I liked the article and (in fact) read most of the online magazine.

[giddyup]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Kathleen,

We appreciate greatly your follow-up and the detailed information provided. The information will be a great reference for others to consider when evaluating their own Acura MDX towing needs.

Travel safe and enjoy your X20E

Bob

Thanks yourself. I learned a lot during this exercise. Everything will be easier with a bigger TV. Look for me to start a new thread in a few months . . . something along the lines of "Which is better? A Tahoe or a Touareg?"

[Heady]

Kathleen, thanks for sharing your story. We have an x20e and you are doing the right research to ensure that you have a safe towing setup. Something we should have done before buying ours!

Good luck with your x20e, hope you enjoy yours as much as we do ours!

[giddyup]

Originally Posted by Heady

Kathleen, thanks for sharing your story. We have an x20e and you are doing the right research to ensure that you have a safe towing setup. Something we should have done before buying ours!

Good luck with your x20e, hope you enjoy yours as much as we do ours!

Thanks. We think that we have a much better understanding of the issues and we are respectful of the pitfalls/dangers.

Just for fun, you need to tell me how you like your x20e. We had to order ours so will not have it for a few weeks. Can hardly wait.

[Disney fan]

I have an mdx. Towed a 2013 x20e for about 1 year over 7000 miles.
Handled extremely well. Best towing trailer I ever had. I had a husky wdh. Tried to keep additional weight to a minimum. Did not have any issues. It is possible to re enforce the receiver so that the weight from the receiver to carried up through the vehicle. Search for articles from this expert, http://www.canamrv.ca/hitch-hints/

[paula]

wow! I am buying a 2013 x20e and would like to tow with my Toyota highlander and go from Disneyland to Disneyworld...hope to get the right set up. debating between Equalizer hitch or bit the bullet and get a premium hitch. My Toyota says can tow up to 5000 lbs

[giddyup]

Originally Posted by paula

wow! I am buying a 2013 x20e and would like to tow with my Toyota highlander and go from Disneyland to Disneyworld...hope to get the right set up. debating between Equalizer hitch or bit the bullet and get a premium hitch. My Toyota says can tow up to 5000 lbs

We tow the same TT with an Acura MDX that is rated at 5,000 lbs towing capacity. The MDX, however, is also of Unibody construction and it has an automatic Vehicle Stability Assist (VBA), both of which can influence towing.

We went with the Equalizer 10,000 (max) WDH. Partially because we plan to upgrade our TV and carry more weight within the next year or so, and partially because the WDH manufacture suggested it.

With our WDH setup, there is NO sway so the VSA cannot kick in - that solves one issue. We have towed thru 60 mph gusts without a problem.

The WDH also seems to distribute the weight evenly, which helps to offset the concerns of the unibody construction. The Acura regional director was helpful with this.

Now, the overarching issue is one of total weight and that can be a bit challenging. We are very careful in this regard but are still running close to the 5K limit.

Remember that you have two separate issues with your weight. The TT is rated at 5K max, but the TV is also limited to 5K, so you need to keep the TOTAL weight of the trailer PLUS the weight of the items and people in your TV below the 5K towing limit on of your Highlander. There are lots of posts that are more detailed in how to determine your overall weight.

We started by weighing the rig and usual contents, so we have a good idea of what works and what doesn't. We have also weighed all of the contents item by item so that we can switch them out. Once you get used to what it should look and feel like, you can pretty much judge by standing back and seeing if the TT and TV are in a straight line horizontally, and then ensuring that the space between your tires and wheel wells stays comparatively about the same from front to back axles.

We tow with empty tanks and go to great lengths in balancing out our load. We cannot carry all that we would like at any one time, but trade off. If we carry a bike, then the BBQ; and some outside camping stuff is set aside for another trip.

I learned a lot from the forums - everything but how to parallel park the darned thing. I dread the day someone posts our parking travails to YouTube.

Be sure to use your search function for more help on the Forum.

We love our x20e and are busily building memories. Good luck with yours, and remember to keep a good sense of humor.

[Dagwood]

DW, Myself, Daughter and Abby the dog love our X20e. I'm pulling it with my Tacoma using the Equalizer 10K WDH and Prodigy3 Controller. Everything works and pulls great. I have pulled the TT with a Full Fresh Water Tank (Just to see how things handled), Full Propane tanks and Cargo Capacity. I had no problems at all, even when the Old TOM TOM took me on an Off road adventure with a drive up and huge Mountain on a dirt road. I darn near soiled myself looking at the climb ahead that looked to be at least a 70 - 80 degree elevation if not more, LOL but was very Happy when the Tacoma just did what it was built to do and simply climbed no problem. Having the Dual axles is indeed easier to manipulate when backing up I find than a single axle and the extra Breaking never hurts anyway.

As for the trailer itself. It's large enough to provide lots of comfy room inside and yet small enough to still fit into those tight campsites. I personally love standing at the doorway and pushing the buttons to extend the Awning and to activate the slide out. For me, the seating inside could be a bit more comfortable but I'm a large fella so it's only my complaint, the DW and Daughter have no problems getting Comfy inside the trailer.
The Bathroom...The Girls simply love having one. It's been great for us. We've learned how to use the storage in a way that works for us and since we don't cook inside the trailer, I just cut a piece of wood to go over the burners creating a tad bit more space for stuff. DW puts all the Pots/Pans inside the Oven so we treat it as another storage space. We took out the Jayco provided Table in favor of a couple of fold down plastic tables. The Jayco Table sucks, especially with the square tube legs that weigh a ton and a table top that wobbles like crazy. We never use it inside the trailer so it was a pain anyway to move it in/out all the time. I will cut a sheet of plywood to use instead as a bed when the time comes.

We just love it. Especially moving up from a PUP.

[giddyup]

Dagwood -

We both have the x20e; 10K Equalizer WDH; and P3 Controller, but I believe you have about 1,500 pounds more towing capacity than we presently have. Boy, would I ever have some fun with that.

Your wife and I are united in our reluctance to cook. I bought a great CAMCO cover for burners, but find that I could use a little more room when boondocking so that I can use the burners to heat water/food. Is this still considered cooking?

We, too, find the seating to be very uncomfortable and are looking at our options for having it "adjusted". On the other hand, Homer the Beagle thinks that everything about Trailer camping is GREAT. He just loves those bunk ends (aka "bear feeders").

My husband is 6'4" (plus) and he still fits great in either big bunk. Not so much on the sofa as it is somewhat shallow in the seating area. Like you, I could roll/unroll that awning 24/7. It is so smooth and fast. Just love it.

Would love to know more about your plans for tables. We usually end up with the big one either in front of the sofa or turned sideways at the dinette. We always use the front bunk, so we turn the table sideways and closer to the door side; and move the seat/ottoman/storage thingee to the sofa area. This gives us (and Homer) clear access to the front bunk AND with my feet on the ottoman, I don't slide off the sofa.

Please post pics of what you are doing with the tables. For the record, we find that the dinette bed does not work for adults. Just fine, however, for smaller kids, and makes a nice big comfy area for movie nights.

[Dagwood]

Ya, even with the extra Tow capacity, I really would not go much heavier on a TT. It does allow us a few options in terms of carrying Fresh Water or not. Just take it easy with your TV and don't race to get anywhere. I'm starting to think about something bigger already but moreso for the fact I know I'll upgrade the TT down the road, LOL. It's a trap I tell ya.

We use small 5ft resin tables. Here's a link, it's to a Canadian Site but it shows what we use. They come on sale for $25-30 Cdn all the time.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/li...l#.VNlJxfnF9HM

They fold up and we actually slide one of them in beside the couch and bench seat where the Water Pumped is housed when travelling. This is how we use them when setup. The Table beside the axles holds our Keurig, Toaster, Tupperware Container with Sugar/Salt/Pepper/Serviettes/Lighters etc, and the table more towards the outside is where we eat/drink/be merry
Of course they are super portable so you can move them anywhere and if they get wet, Who cares.



Actually now that I look at the photo, we have the Jayco table in this pic...but as mentioned, we put it in storage and just use two of the resin tables now.

[Disney fan]

Originally Posted by paula

wow! I am buying a 2013 x20e and would like to tow with my Toyota highlander and go from Disneyland to Disneyworld...hope to get the right set up. debating between Equalizer hitch or bit the bullet and get a premium hitch. My Toyota says can tow up to 5000 lbs

You won't get a lot of sway with the x20 due to the length height and its torsion suspension. I found that the husky was all I needed was able to hit 115 with no issues with my Acura . When I upgraded my tow vehicle to a truck I found that the Acura towed much better. Key things for a tv are firm suspension low centre of gravity lower profile tires . I was very disappointed after trading the Acura for a truck which led me to getting a blue ox wdh and it made a substantial difference on the truck. So does your tv have a long travel suspension and high profile tires of a truck? If so go for a better wdh

the husky wdh is usually on Costco website for under $300 where the blue ox is about $750. Of all the wdh on the market I found the blue ox is simple and effective.