Braking Expectations?

[BuddyRay]

Mike837,

The rate (frequency) at with the PWM controllers switch is so fast that it's irrelevant. There are basically 2 ways to lower DC voltage - resistance (which is unreliable, creates heat and wastes power) and PMW. Most PMW Circuits have a large capacitor on the output to smooth the DC back out - you can simply read voltage at the pin with a MultiMeter as long as there is load on it. Because I have 2 parallel 7 way plugs on the back, I was able to keep the brakes on the circuit while I measured the voltage.

Rusty,

That's sort of my plan - wait till winter and get the dealer to pull the brakes.

No guys - I haven't tried the brakeaway test yet - it was pouring rain coming home yesterday and it's back on the lot now. I should have tried that going out on Friday but we were in a hurry to get to the SP and get a good site.
I'm taking it out again in October, so we'll see then.

[Subaru297]

I have a similar issue with a 2014 Jayco 281BHS and a 2015 F250. If I pull the brakeaway cable the wheels lock up on gravel but applying full brakes using the integrated brake controller does not apply the brakes very hard. They do slow the truck and trailer down but not quickly. Braking is set to hard in the vehicle and the gain is pretty high 6 to 8 usually.

One thing I found that helped a little is to fully insert the 7 pin plug. I thought I was for the longest time as I was pushing it in very hard and then the latch catches. One day I sprayed some wd40 on it and pushed really hard and it went in an extra 1/4 inch. This allowed me to turn the gain down a little. Truck and trailer still stop well but I sure wish full brakes on the controller would apply full brakes on the trailer.

Still searching for answers on this one.

[Camper_bob]

I've seen some chatter that Ram Truck's integrated brake controller, at low speeds (below 30?) doesn't apply full brake voltage? I wonder if the Ford is programmed like this as well?

If that's the case, you'll never achieve lockup as we are accustomed to testing it. In many brake controller instructions, it says to travel on smooth, dry pavement at 20 mph, and apply the manual brake controller fully. Increase gain until trailer tire lockup is achieved, and then back off slightly. If the controller is designed/programmed to decrease braking output at low speeds, you'll never be able to achieve lockup with that method. OTOH, if you pull the emergency plug, you're getting unbridled 100% voltage immediately.

It kind of makes sense if you think about it. An example can be found on 18-wheelers. If a tractor is towing an unladen trailer, you see the trailer tires lock up all the time at low speeds. Perhaps the integrated brake controller's programming is trying to avoid this? It could sure wear out tires fast if they were locking up at every stop.

Not saying it's a good idea, but I can see the logic in programming it this way...

Of course, I'm by no means an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night! LOL!!

[mike837go]

All I know about is that I can feel when the brake controller has ramped up more braking than I am calling for from the tow's brakes. And when the breakaway was accidentally pulled, it was darn near impossible to move the rig.


But, then again I am pulling 'only' about 5,000#. A toy compared to your 5'r. Any brake failure will cause 'undue stress' on my TV's brakes. You have to worry about your TV getting seriously overwhelmed. I understand your concern to get it all operating safely.

[Subaru297]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

I've seen some chatter that Ram Truck's integrated brake controller, at low speeds (below 30?) doesn't apply full brake voltage? I wonder if the Ford is programmed like this as well?

I have heard this of the Fords too and have tested this theory going around 50km/h. No change in my case. Still weak braking.

Cheers

[klassic]

Yep weak braking on 2012 f350.
I pull at 10. I wish I could turn it up to 14.
I drive cautiously...if I have an emergency stop, I'm not stopping.

[BuddyRay]

OK, this thread is getting pretty old - but I thought I would come back and update.

My brakes are working better.
I have no idea why - but over the last 3 months they have been stronger every time I've taken the rig out.
This last weekend I actually found I had to turn them down from a 10 to 8.

I figure there are a few possibilities here:
1) The brakes were REALLY out of adjustment from the factory and the automatic adjustment took a long time, working in small increments every time I stopped, to bring the brakes into adjustment.
2) There was a small amount of bearing grease on the shoes, and it's wearing off.
3) The Ford Brake controller is "learning" ? (not likely)
4) There really was an electrical or mechanical problem and a wandering evangelist laid hands on my trailer when I wasn't looking and shouted "HEAL".

Don't worry - I still plan to have the dealer do a through inspection when I take the rig in for some work in December.
But for now - the electric brakes are working fine!

[don648]

I have a 2015 Silverado 1\2 ton 4x4 with the factory brake controller and 2015 26RKS. The dealer set the controller at 3 it did nothing. I set it to 10 and it worked a little. I read in the axle owners manual that it can take 1000 miles or more for the brakes to fully seat and reach full stopping capacity. For about the first three trips I had to keep turning down my controller until it got to 6.5 and it works great, its been there quite some time now. I've adjusted it up and down and always end up back at 6.5. Last trip I had to make a very hard stop and was amazed at how fast the rig stopped. I'm very happy with the factory controller it just took some time for the trailer brakes to seat in.

[BuddyRay]

Don,
I guess I should 'read the manual' but as a lifelong computer nerd that's usually the last resort [emoji47]

But I'm glad you pointed this out. I'm just past my first 1,000 miles so this probably explains why my brakes are working so much better.


Buddy Ray - Atlanta
---------------
Jayco Eagle HT 26.5RLS
Ford F150 Lariat, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost
Max Tow Pkg, 36gal tank
Reese Sidewinder and Reese Titan 16k hitch

[jasum]

Originally Posted by BuddyRay

Don,
I guess I should 'read the manual' but as a lifelong computer nerd that's usually the last resort [emoji47]

But I'm glad you pointed this out. I'm just past my first 1,000 miles so this probably explains why my brakes are working so much better.


Buddy Ray - Atlanta
---------------
Jayco Eagle HT 26.5RLS
Ford F150 Lariat, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost
Max Tow Pkg, 36gal tank
Reese Sidewinder and Reese Titan 16k hitch

Buddy Ray,

Don't you think with the miles from the factory to where you are your brakes would have been (wore in)
My Jayco fifth wheel does NOT have good braking at all!!
I am exactly like Klassic, it will NOT stop & if you ever have to really quick.........it is NOT going to stop.
If I can afford to do it, I will install disc brakes on it so it will STOP like it should.
That's what I hope to do soon........

Jack

[don648]

I thought about the trip from the factory too but its probably a lot of freeway miles without stopping plus I drive by my dealer every day going to and from work and have been surprised to see some jaycos coming in on trailers. My brakes seemed to work better after each harder than normal stop.

[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by jasum

Buddy Ray,

Don't you think with the miles from the factory to where you are your brakes would have been (wore in)
My Jayco fifth wheel does NOT have good braking at all!!
I am exactly like Klassic, it will NOT stop & if you ever have to really quick.........it is NOT going to stop.
If I can afford to do it, I will install disc brakes on it so it will STOP like it should.
That's what I hope to do soon........

Jack

My brakes did not wear in during delivery. It's roughly 1,800 miles between Middlebury and my house in AZ and I picked up my trailer in Middlebury. It took some local camping trips with stop and go driving through high traffic areas before my trailer brakes had the stopping power I expected.

Bottom line, miles alone do not wear in the brakes: It's braking cycles.

[klassic]

Originally Posted by jasum

Buddy Ray,

Don't you think with the miles from the factory to where you are your brakes would have been (wore in)
My Jayco fifth wheel does NOT have good braking at all!!
I am exactly like Klassic, it will NOT stop & if you ever have to really quick.........it is NOT going to stop.
If I can afford to do it, I will install disc brakes on it so it will STOP like it should.
That's what I hope to do soon........

Jack

My rig is at the dealer now for bent supports and other things. This is the second last attempt at solving my braking issue.
I can SERIOUSLY hold my controller on full give the TV a little gas (diesel) easily pull the trailer and coast to a stop.
I can feel the brakes but it's like my wife is holding the trailer back with a skipping rope. There isn't much there.

Dealer is going to replace the 7way cable this time. Hope that's the problem.
I said second to last try at fixing the brakes because the last try will be after my 2017 F350 Platinum comes in three weeks....if the brakes still are bad then it's not my truck (like Jayco is saying).
It probably would have been cheaper to just drop 3k on disk brakes but hey!

[BuddyRay]

I know mine came in on a trailer. But I also agree that it's number of stopping cycles not miles.

I think that the other thing we need to always remember on this forum is best summarized by an acronym used frequently on computer forums that I frequent: YMMV, which stands for "your mileage may vary." Used in this context in translates to: "This was my problem and the solution that fixed it - but you may actually have a different underlying problem.

So I'm quite sure that there are some people on this forum who have weak brakes caused by under sized brakes, others have the same symptoms but the problem is grease on the brake shoes, and still others have defective controllers or wiring.

In my 30+ years of towing a TT I've had a bad controller, improperly adjusted brakes and a short.


Buddy Ray - Atlanta
---------------
Jayco Eagle HT 26.5RLS
Ford F150 Lariat, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost
Max Tow Pkg, 36gal tank
Reese Sidewinder and Reese Titan 16k hitch

[Paintinfool3]

I have a 2011 f250 and my brake controller works great on mine but it took some time and travels with alot of braking for them to work the way they do now. I havent had any problems stopping mine

[edatlanta]

Are you sure all 4 trailer brakes are working? I was never happy with my trailer brakes, but just sort of ignored it thinking it was just me. What I found out after a year or so was that the left rear brake was not working at all. It had no mechanism in the brake assembly to actuate the brakes. The application mechanism was simply not installed at the Dexter factory and that one brake had never ever worked at all.

Think about it - 25% loss of brake capacity and with 2/3 of what I did have was on one side. In hard braking my rig would pull my TV to the left since the right side of my 5'er was being pulled right since that was the side with more brake capacity. I didn't realize this until after a hard stop in traffic one time.

So my recommendation in addition to all of the others above is to make sure all of your brakes are in fact working.

[Subaru297]

Klassic,

Did your new TV improve your braking ability at all? I finally measured the voltages at my axles on the weekend and was only seeing 7-8 volts with the slider squeezed or with the brake pedal depressed.

I forgot to test what the voltage it with the emergency brake cord pulled. Next time.

Still haven't found anything definitive on how Fords brake controllers logic works either. If they do limit trailer braking under a certain speed as has been mentioned.

Cheers

[klassic]

Yes. I have brakes now. I had the controller set at 6.5 this weekend. 7 felt like a little too much.
During my testing game before they finally agreed to change the brakes, I played with the voltages...I was never as low as you are.
I would have 14.5(truck running) at the truck plug, and 12ish at the end of the 10g wire at the first split.
I remember them telling me above 10.5v would be considered good.

I know where you're at... it's maddening!
I'm glad it's over for me.
It only cost me a brand new F350 to prove to them it's NOT THE TRUCK!!!!!

[01tundra]

My TT is much lighter than most of your rigs (3,800 lbs. loaded) but with both the Prodigy 3 in our FJ and the factory controller in our 2500HD I can slide the controller lever and easily lock the TT brakes up.

I typically run an output level of 5-6 (6.5 max) on the 2500 and ran about the same with the Prodigy.

One thing I did find was that one side on the TT was hardly braking (at about 500 miles on it), found it with my infrared thermometer. After adjust both sides manually it is stopping great now.