CAT scale results, Tundra towing 28BHBE

[bap]

There is some good information here and some that is not accurate for every situation. Being over weight for your vehicle can happen two ways. 1) The total combined weight of your TV and TT can exceed what is allowed by a particular State's law or the rating on the door plate. 2) Your vehicle can have an individual axle overweight based on the rating on the door plate.
Each state has their own laws regarding weights and requiring which vehicles need to be weighed. Some states like mine, New Hampshire, can require any vehicle to be weighed if the officer requests it. You can be fined for being overweight if one axle is overweight but the total weight is less than the weight limit. Some states put trucks over 10,000 GVW, (most one tons) into "Truck" status and make them follow commercial truck laws. It is up to each individual drivers to make sure they are comfortable and legal with what they are caring, not blanket statements from people on forums saying they know everything and are right.

[Ottawasteve]

Originally Posted by wags999

I have sat on a jury where the lawyers brought up everything you could think of, not an RV accident but an auto accident. They can tell if your lights were burning at the time of the accident, if your brakes were adequate, if your tires were inflated correctly, speed, weight (car was way over loaded and couldn't stop properly) etc. I would never want to be exposed to that type of interrogation. Don't know how it turned out they settled half way through the trial. But the guy who was overloaded lost. And if you have postings saying you know your over weight....well....not me...sorry, not the hill I want to die on.

Not sure what this has to do with the price of bananas, but it is about as relevant and has nothing to do with towing a few hundred pounds overweight. I would recommend that you actually read and insurance policy before you start misquoting what is says or means. You may have misunderstood my earlier post so I will re-post the relevant portion:

Originally Posted by Ottawasteve

If you have a quote from an insurance policy or an actual court case where insurance was denied, please share in a new thread. Otherwise, this "heard it somewhere advice" and warnings about family safety really don't contribute anything useful.

Happy camping,

[spoon059]

Oh geez, when did this forum turn into RV.net? So much incorrect information...

LEGALITY, SAFETY and WARRANTY are 3 vastly different things.
Legal is what you worry about when you get pulled over. Are you heavier than you are registered for... illegal. Are you heavier than your combined tire rating... illegal. I had a Tundra in Maryland. Vehicle registration weights were 7000 lbs or 10,000 lbs. I didn't want to lose 200 lbs in payload, so I paid extra for 10K GVWR, therefore I LEGALLY gave myself an extra 2800 lbs of payload. I had the Rock Warrior with factory E rated tires and a combined tire rating of over 12K lbs. I was perfectly LEGAL to weigh 10K lbs on my Tundra.

Safety... I didn't want to weight 10K lbs. When we bought our new Jayco I was about 500 or 600 lbs overweight. Had plenty of engine to pull it and plenty of brakes to slow it down in most circumstances. We tow in the Eastern US mountains quite often. While nowhere near as severe as the Rockies, you get some good steep inclines and declines and the Tundra handled it well. We tow 2000 miles round trip to Florida almost every winter however, and I didn't want to be that overloaded for that long of a trip... especially cause we carry more weight on longer trips. I decided that while I was LEGAL, it wasn't the safest thing to do. 99% of the time the truck would handle it great, but I was worried about that 1% of the time and being that overloaded and having an emergency situation. I bought a diesel Ram so I don't have to worry about those things now.

Warranty is the balance between vehicle ability and longevity. Sure that Tundra can be overloaded for a while, but eventually that extra weight is going to cause premature wear in something. Maybe your trans goes out at 200K miles instead of 300K miles. Probably your brake pad and rotor service life will go down. Maybe you will have more premature wear in your axle. I don't know, but something will wear down faster as a result of towing heavier. Toyota puts that 7200 lbs rating and max axle ratings for warranty purposes. The engineers, lawyers and advertising got together and negotiated a weight that would limit warranty claims (engineering), limit liability (lawyers) and offer a competitive product (advertising).

Civil lawsuits are hardly a barometer for safe, smart, legal, etc. I have seen some ridiculous lawsuits. If you are going to spout off about civil liability in an accident, you better not be doing the maximum speed limit, your tires should be at full tread all the time, brakes should be changed every 5K miles, etc. Some money chasing lawyer can file a suit against anyone at anytime. Sometimes insurance companies just pay out because its cheaper than fighting. Sometimes insurance companies fight it.

If your insurance will cover you for a DUI wreck, why wouldn't they cover you if you are 500 lbs overweight? What about if you are speeding 20+ over the limit, insurance still covers you, that would be far more negligent while towing than simply being a little over weight.

By the way, how easy do you think it is to accurately weight a wrecked vehicle? Having worked thousands of car wrecks in my career, I can tell you that it would be almost impossible to prove a vehicle was overweight by as little as 500 lbs.
Tongue weight in the trailer can cause a several hundred lbs variance. Was it loaded to 15% tongue weight or 10% tongue weight? What is tongue weight was too LOW and caused the wreck...?
Amount of fuel in the tank can affect weight.
Those suitcases that are scattered across the highway, were they in the bed of the truck or in the camper? That can vary your truck weight.
How much did all the passengers weigh and how can a civil attorney get that information before filing suit? How much weight was gained or lost by passengers between the time of the wreck and the eventual lawsuit years down the road?
How much of the debris that was picked up by the wrecker operator came from your truck? How much came from the trailer? How much came from the other car? How much was there from a previous wreck?

Now, lets just pretend that you went across a truck scale with everyone aboard and got your weight slip and then immediately got into a wreck less than a mile down the road. Lets pretend that a civil attorney can prove that you were 500 lbs overweight because of that slip. Now, the attorney has to prove that being overweight was a direct causation of the collision or it was the direct causation of injuries. How do you prove that?

It is FAR more likely that a driver is distracted by the GPS, driver texting/talking on phone, kids in the backseat, eating something, fiddling with the radio, etc. Being 500 lbs overweight likely wouldn't cause the wreck, being distracted and not reacting in time would cause the wreck. Its far easier to prove distraction that being overweight.

All that being said, I was overweight in my Tundra for one trip and didn't like it. We bit the bullet and got a heavier truck and don't worry about those things anymore. We are camping this week at the lake... brought a screen house, zero gravity chairs, a hammock, 4 regular chairs, lots of water, pool and water table for the kids, sand toys for the kids, etc etc. Everything fits, no worries about weight. Its more enjoyable not to worry about those things. The OP could put his rig on a diet and not haul firewood, water, etc with him.

I highly doubt that the OP will suffer a catastrophic failure, nor will he be immediately liable for any wreck simply for being a little overweight. I would bet that his ride won't be as comfortable, his fuel mileage will suffer, he will likely find his drive less enjoyable while being over weight... but that is HIS choice.

[LiftedAWDAstro]

Some of you prudes need to lighten up! Unless you are buying me a 1 ton diesel, I am not changing what I am doing. I am under the Tundra's GCWR by 500# (If I tow loaded with water) and just barely over the rear axle rating...Pretty sure I will be fine and not kill a church van full of kids...unless they pull out in front of me and my 15,000# setup t-bones them at 60 mph.

I posted the numbers so others who are thinking of buying a similar sized camper and have a 1/2 ton truck, can have REAL data to show what to expect. All the nay-sayers probably have not been to an actual scale nor have they spent the money on one of only 2 bumper pull hitches that eliminate sway...just sayin...

[Racinforthefinish]

I tow my 23 rb with everything I might need for camping in it and in the back of the truck. Full water tanks, generators and bicycles and all kinds of blocks I might possibly need. Mostly I use the Toyota Tundra but sometimes I will use the F350 Powerstroke. Weight distribution bars and one sway bar are used on both trucks. I honestly can't tell any difference in the handling of either vehicle set up this way even If I may crowd the weight a bit with the Tundra. The only reason I would prefer the F350 is if I am going on a long trip, and then only because I have an extra 100 gallon fuel tank.

[C4DC]

For comparison, we just got a 16 28bhbe last weekend and weighed it on the way home. Unit has 2nd ac, and full 30 bottles up front, 1 battery, no water in the tanks. With 3/4 tank gas and the whole family in the 07 Escalade, ours was 6760 vehicle, 6320 trailer, 13120 total. The scale operator couldn't do individual axles on the vehicle unfortunately. We're still dialing in the equalizer hitch with occasional small amounts of sway at times. We found the installer put some brackets upside down which we found out when we got home. Our max total is 14100, so we have 1000 lbs to play with. We only do one dry trip a year so should be well under the max most of the time with keeping the fresh tanks empty.

[Macrosill]

So a few people are arguing about what one can be held liable for in the event of a wreck but neither side has any legitimate standing to base their argument on because none of them are lawyers or experience in the field of Insurance and accident investigations, etc etc etc.

How can one tell another that you will or will not be held liable when none of them have the experience to make such claims?

And it is very easy to figure out the weight of a crashed vehicle. I have seen it done personally in the aftermath of an auto accident on more than 1 occasion. There was no fatality but there was a serious injury. You can bet your bottom dollar that in the event of a serious injury or fatality the investigating agency will be able to determine exactly what happened and why. And the event will not be pawned off as an "accident" without a full and thorough investigation looking at every minute detail. And if someone can be held accountable by a jury of their peers they most certainly will be. This is on a legal aspect. Oh, and your insurance may still cover you but they won't shield you from the inside of a court room. Criminal Negligence would be one of the culpable mental states you could be prosecuted on.

The above is for a legal aspect. For a civil aspect just throw all logic out the window because there is no logic inside a civil proceeding. For a legal trial the prosecution needs Beyond a reasonable doubt. For a civil proceeding the plaintiff only needs a preponderance of the evidence, which equals to 51% or greater. A much lower threshold.

Each of us makes our own decisions and we have to live with them in the event something happens.

I am not arguing what will or will not happen to you or anyone else, just stating some facts and what could happen.

[Doug]

I just purchased a 2016 Tundra, 5.7 V8 with Max Towing and Max Payload pkg.
I put together an Excel Spreadsheet so I could run numbers as I look at buying a used camper. By using some pretty sound numbers from the specifications, I can predict about what my limits are for a TT. As predicted, the Tundra is more limited by payload that towing capacity. You can see my numbers here.
http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...pkg-38398.html

[LiftedAWDAstro]

Just an update to this thread...

I have decided to trade the Tundra in on a Ram 2500 Cummins diesel. There were many reasons why I talked myself into ordering a new truck. I have always wanted a diesel, I wanted an 8' bed to haul our stuff camping, I wanted more amenities that the Tundra didn't have like the 8.4" touch screen, heated seats and wheel, backup camera and oh yeah...a diesel engine! I also knew I was going to wear out the Tundra buy running it continuously overloaded. The wear may not have shown up for several more years but by the time I noticed it, the truck would have no trade-in or resale value. I got a great trade-in price so it made sense to go for it. I will say the Tundra never lacked power or braking while towing the 28BHBE. I put in 4th gear and set the cruise if I wanted.

[FeatherFam]

Originally Posted by LiftedAWDAstro

Just an update to this thread...

I have decided to trade the Tundra in on a Ram 2500 Cummins diesel. There were many reasons why I talked myself into ordering a new truck. I have always wanted a diesel, I wanted an 8' bed to haul our stuff camping, I wanted more amenities that the Tundra didn't have like the 8.4" touch screen, heated seats and wheel, backup camera and oh yeah...a diesel engine! I also knew I was going to wear out the Tundra buy running it continuously overloaded. The wear may not have shown up for several more years but by the time I noticed it, the truck would have no trade-in or resale value. I got a great trade-in price so it made sense to go for it. I will say the Tundra never lacked power or braking while towing the 28BHBE. I put in 4th gear and set the cruise if I wanted.

I get it. We cannot do anything about the TV now, but a 3/4 ton is likely in our future, too.