Doug's CAT Scale Results - 2008 4Runner Towing 165 Sport - Double Check Requested

[Doug]

Hey Guys,
I went to the CAT scales today loaded out and ready to go.
If I am calculating correctly, summary of findings:
A. Tongue Weight is too high. 880lbs My Hitch Tongue Weight is rated for 600 Lbs
B. My current WDH setting has returned 104% to front axle. Front axle is over rating by 30lbs
C. My WDH bars are rated at 800lbs and are at lowest setting. Should I have bought 600 lb. bars?
D. Measurements from ground to wheel well today. Front equal to unhitched, Rear - 1/2" versus unhitched

Looks like I have a couple of options and wondering what your recommendations are.
1. Move some weight from front of TT to rear of TT
2. Raise hitch ball 1" (front of TT is currently 1" higher than rear)
3. Do both and re-weight?

Here are my numbers:

TV GAWR Front = 2,550 (Tow vehicle Gross Axle Weight Rating Front)
TV GAWR Rear = 3,060 (Tow vehicle Gross Axle Weight Rating Rear)
TV GVWR = 5,580 (Tow vehicle Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)
TV GCWR = 10,580 (Tow vehicle Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating)

Hitch GTWR = 5,000 (Hitch Tow Weight Rating)
Hitch TWR = 600 (Hitch Tongue Weight Rating)

TT GVWR = 3,500 (Trailer Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)

CAT SCALE RESULTS
Weight #1 = (Weight of the TV and attached towable with the WDH activated)
TV Steer Axle = 2,580 ***** (30lbs over rating, (2,580 - 2,550) 104% versus unhitched)
TV Drive Axle = 2,680 (good, rated at 3,060)
Towable Axle = 3,000 (good, rated at 3,500)
Note 1: WDH returned front axle to 104% of unhitched
Note 2: WDH reduced weight on TV rear axle by 640lbs (Rear axle at 109% versus unhitched)

Weight #2 = (Weight of the TV and attached towable with WDH deactivated, but attached)
TV Steer Axle = 2,180
TV Drive Axle = 3,320 ***** (260 lbs over rating, (3,320 - 3,060))
Towable Axle = 2,780
Note1: WDH redistributed 640 lbs of weight from rear axle of TV? ((3,320 w/o WDH) - (2,680 w/WDH))

Weight #3: = Weight of loaded TV (unhitched from towable)
TV Steer Axle = 2,480
TV Drive Axle = 2,440
Note 1: Tongue weight = 3,320 - 2,440 = 880lbs **** Over rating of hitch rated at 600 lbs

If you have time, please take a look at my numbers and conclusions to make sure that my findings are supported by the data.

Kind regards,
Doug

[Crabman]

I will let Eagle look at the numbers but where are you getting all of that hitch weight, are there heavy items in the front compartment? 880 seems high for that trailer.

[Doug]

Crabman,
I have what I think is normal stuff in front compartment. Not overly stuffed.
1. Pack 4 Lynx blocks, 3lbs?
2. 9'x12' patio matt, 12lbs?
3. 2 small folding camp chairs, 5lbs?
4. 5 fireplace logs, 15lbs
5. Sewer hoses, 6lbs?
6. Couple tools for WDH, awning tool, 2 ea chocks, 15lbs?
I get only about 55-60 lbs adding that up. I will move logs and awning matt to rear of TT

I guess you also have to add full 20lb Propane + 12V battery/case 100lbs?

Doug

[Crabman]

Dry hitch for 2007 165 is 450, so you are picking up 430 lbs from somewhere if the scale is accurate.


FLOORPLAN 165
Weights
Unloaded vehicle weight (lbs.) 2850
Hitch weight (lbs.) 450
Gross vehicle weight (lbs.) 3500
Cargo carrying capacity (lbs.) 650
Measurements
Exterior length 17' 11"
Exterior height w/AC 114"
Interior headroom 78"
Tank Capacities
Fresh water tank (gals.) 30
Gray wastewater tank capacity (gals.) 30
Toilet/black wastewater capacity (gals.) 11
Other
Sleeping capacity 5

[Doug]

Yep,
Has me a little puzzled too Crabman.
I was actually tilted down in the front thinking I was going to be struggling with tongue weight being too low.
I weighed the matt, 11lbs, log = 15.5lbs. Moved those to bathroom and bed.
I do have the weight of the WDH fixtures on the TT rails, 10lbs?
I measured my TT again, I am only 3/4" low in the front, so can't go a hole higher on the hitch ball.
I am going to remove a couple washers and see if I can get TT right on level in tow.

I'll see what Bob and others say as well.

I have tomorrow to adjust and re-weigh before heading out.

Pretty windy here today at 18-22mph. Had some highway driving and 2 lane at 55.
You can definitely feel the wind pushing you, but nothing dangerous or white knuckle.

Doug

[Denise]

(Doug... that went fast; it's already time for you to head our for you trip out West! Congrats on checking those weights! I'm sure as a result you will have safe travels..... and post some pics of your neat trip!)

[David472]

Doug,
Don't take this wrong, but you have made a mistake in calculating the tongue weight.
It is as follows;
with TT hooked up and no WD, add the TV FAW and the RAW = 2180 + 3320
then subtract the TV alone FAW and RAW; - 2480 - 2440
Your tongue weight is actually 580 lbs

So, your WD bars are rated okay.
To reduce the load on your front axle when hitched up and WD engaged, tilt the hitch head forward a bit.

Dave

[Doug]

Dave,
Thank you so much. I was hoping I did something wrong.
I didn't see anything on the from the 5ver worksheet that I was using to calculate that.
I should of maybe looked in our CAT scale thread.
Ah, I feel much better now.
So I moved some weight out of the front storage and I should take a couple washers out of the WDH and pitch the ball towards the TV?

I was headed that direction because I can't raise the hitch 1 complete hole.

So, I am at 580lbs tongue weight. I am targeting 525. I moved 27 lbs to the rear = 553.
Once I tilt the hitch head, I should be very close to a good setup.



Greatly appreciate your catch.

Kind regards,
Doug

[Doug]

Originally Posted by dougtoms01

Hey Guys,
I went to the CAT scales today loaded out and ready to go.
If I am calculating correctly, summary of findings:
A. *Correction* Tongue Weight 580lbs My Hitch Tongue Weight is rated for 600 Lbs
B. My current WDH setting has returned 104% to front axle. Front axle is over rating by 30lbs
C. Measurements from ground to wheel well today. Front equal to unhitched, Rear - 1/2" versus unhitched

Looks like I have a couple of options and wondering what your recommendations are.
1. Move some weight from front of TT to rear of TT
2. Take some washers out to tilt hitch ball to the front to reduce front axle load
3. Make these changes and re-weigh.

Here are my numbers:

TV GAWR Front = 2,550 (Tow vehicle Gross Axle Weight Rating Front)
TV GAWR Rear = 3,060 (Tow vehicle Gross Axle Weight Rating Rear)
TV GVWR = 5,580 (Tow vehicle Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)
TV GCWR = 10,580 (Tow vehicle Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating)

Hitch GTWR = 5,000 (Hitch Tow Weight Rating)
Hitch TWR = 600 (Hitch Tongue Weight Rating)

TT GVWR = 3,500 (Trailer Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)

CAT SCALE RESULTS
Weight #1 = (Weight of the TV and attached towable with the WDH activated)
TV Steer Axle = 2,580 ***** (30lbs over rating, (2,580 - 2,550) 104% versus unhitched)
TV Drive Axle = 2,680 (good, rated at 3,060)
Towable Axle = 3,000 (good, rated at 3,500)
Note 1: WDH returned front axle to 104% of unhitched
Note 2: WDH reduced weight on TV rear axle by 640lbs (Rear axle at 109% versus unhitched)

Weight #2 = (Weight of the TV and attached towable with WDH deactivated, but attached)
TV Steer Axle = 2,180
TV Drive Axle = 3,320 ***** (260 lbs over rating, (3,320 - 3,060))
Towable Axle = 2,780
Note1: WDH redistributed 640 lbs of weight from rear axle of TV? ((3,320 w/o WDH) - (2,680 w/WDH))

Weight #3: = Weight of loaded TV (unhitched from towable)
TV Steer Axle = 2,480
TV Drive Axle = 2,440
Note 1: *Correction*Tongue weight = (2,180 + 3,320) - (2,480 + 2,440) = 580

If you have time, please take a look at my numbers and conclusions to make sure that my findings are supported by the data.


Kind regards,
Doug

A. *Correction* Tongue Weight 580lbs My Hitch Tongue Weight is rated for 600 Lbs

Note 1: *Correction*Tongue weight = (2,180 + 3,320) - (2,480 + 2,440) = 580

Next Steps:
1. Move some weight from front of TT to rear of TT
2. Take some washers out to tilt hitch ball to the front to reduce front axle load
3. Make these changes and re-weigh.

Thanks so much to David472 for the correction on tongue weight calculation.

I really appreciate the help here.

Kind regards,
Doug

[Crabman]

That looks more like it! Your 880 TW figure was almost as much as mine!

[Doug]

Happy camper here Crabman.

This forum saved my arse again big time today.

A couple small changes and I should be good to go.

Now off to pull the WDH washers.

Best regards,
Doug

[David472]

Doug,
Once you have changed the washer count, check the front bumper height with WD and then with the TV alone. My guess is the front bumper should be between 1/8 to 1/4 inch higher when hitched up to give you the FAW you're looking for.

[Doug]

Thanks Dave,
I pulled 2 washers.
Getting dark here, so I'll check it tomorrow.
I'll shoot for 1/8"-1/4" higher on the front.

Once I think it's right, I'll take it back to the scales if it's not a total washout here.
Suppose to have severe thunderstorms tomorrow and then clear sailing to Amarillo through next week.

Best regards,
Doug

[Rustic Eagle]

Doug,

Great CAT scale data!

Looks like Lee and Dave steered you in the right direction with accurate feedback, and I will add a little to the disscussion...., so please advise me if I misinterpret your data.

TV Front Suspension: (TV/TT hitched/WD engaged TV Front Axle = 2,580lbs) - (TV only loaded Front Axle = 2,480lbs) = 100lbs to much weight transferred to front axle. Your target TV front axle "return" weight is the unhitched weight of 2,480lbs, not the front GAWR of 2,550lbs.

TV GVWR: (TV GVWR 5,580lbs) - (2,580lbs + 2,680lbs) = 320lbs remaining (something to watch if your TV wasn't fully loaded).

It should be noted that some of your prior CAT weights may change a little once you re-adjust the WDH to the correct weight (2,480lbs) to the TV's front axle with the WDH engaged.

Please confirm my math, I'm racing against a poor WIFI connection

Bob

[Doug]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for taking a look at my data. I was hoping to hear from you.
You are correct. My set up today was +100lbs versus unhitched on the front axle.

Luckily, my tow vehicle was fully loaded, full gas etc. So hopefully I have a small cushion there for a couple jackets or whatever.

I hope to get back to the CAT scales tomorrow to make sure I've reduced that 100lbs back to something equal to or slightly less than unhitched front axle weight.

I've loss my touch being retired for 14 months now. I used to be a little better crunching data lol. Thanks much my friend.

Kind regards,
Doug

[Rustic Eagle]

Doug,

I know what you mean about the effect of retirement on crunching numbers, I'm in the same boat!

Oh, take a copy of the JOF CAT scale sticky with you, I formatted it to a TV/TT combination.

http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...igh-Your-tt-tv

Bob

[Doug]

Thanks Bob,
I have it book marked.

Best regards,
Doug

[Doug]

2ND VISIT TO CAT SCALE AFTER ADJUSTMENTS
Adjustments made:
1. Moved about 30 lbs of cargo from front to rear of TT
2. Removed 2 washers from Hitch Tilt (tilted ball towards TV more)
3. Raised hitch ball 1 hole (~1.0")
4. Raised spring bar brackets up 1 hole (~1")
5. Added fuel. I thought I was at least 3/4 full yesterday, but actually was at 1/4 full. I burnt up about 1/2 tank testing and finding CAT Scale :-)

Summary Results:
1. Tongue weight = 540 (previously at 580)
2. Front axle weight = 2460 98.4% (previously 104%)
3. TT front 1/2" lower than rear (previously 1")
4. More clearance between ground and spring bar brackets
5. TV front ground to wheel well 35.5" (previously 35.25") (up .25" versus unhitched)
6. TV rear ground to wheel well 36" (previously 36.5") (down 1" versus unhitched)
7. Front axel within rating returned to 98.4% of unhitched
8. Rear axle within rating
9. TT within rating 3,340 (rated at 3,500)
10. Noticeable improvement in handling. About 10% better

TV GAWR Front = 2,550 (Tow vehicle Gross Axle Weight Rating Front)
TV GAWR Rear = 3,060 (Tow vehicle Gross Axle Weight Rating Rear)
TV GVWR = 5,580 (Tow vehicle Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)
TV GCWR = 10,580 (Tow vehicle Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating)

Hitch GTWR = 5,000 (Hitch Tow Weight Rating)
Hitch TWR = 600 (Hitch Tongue Weight Rating)

TT GVWR = 3,500 (Trailer Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)

2ND CAT SCALE RESULTS
Weight #1 = (Weight of the TV and attached towable with the WDH activated)
TV Steer Axle = 2,460
TV Drive Axle = 2,2940
Towable Axle = 2,960
Note 1: WDH returned front axle to 98.4% of unhitched
Note 2: WDH reduced weight on TV rear axle by 400lbs

Weight #2 = (Weight of the TV and attached towable with WDH deactivated, but attached)
TV Steer Axle = 2,200
TV Drive Axle = 3,340 (added ~100lbs of fuel today)
Towable Axle = 2,800


Weight #3: = Weight of loaded TV (unhitched from towable)
TV Steer Axle = 2,500
TV Drive Axle = 2,500
Note 1: Tongue weight = (2,200+3,340) - (2,500 +2,500) = 540 lbs

I think this is my final set-up.
I could raise spring bars 1", but not sure I want to chance exceeding 100% on front axle.

Best regards,
Doug

[clubhouse]

All that fine tuning and confirming weights should sure make you feel confident as you start on you trip out West. Good work, and thanks for sharing the details.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by clubhouse

All that fine tuning and confirming weights should sure make you feel confident as you start on you trip out West. Good work, and thanks for sharing the details.

Very true Clubhouse. Worth every penny.
Especially with this tow vehicle, it's not the best when set up correctly.
At least I know I am safe and handling is as good as it can be.

Highly recommend doing the CAT scale, even if it's an academic exercise. Nice having the numbers and not guessing.
The site I went to was $10 1st weigh, $2 each additional weigh.

Best regards,
Doug