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Old 06-03-2014, 07:24 PM   #1
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How do length and weight affect towing?

I would like some advice on what to expect before I make my first travel trailer purchase.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I drive a 2013 F150 Ecoboost crew cab. I have been looking at trailers for over a year now and I'm pretty much down to two choices that are very different, the White Hawk 28DSBH(32' and 6000lbs dry) and the Hybrid X23B(24' and 4000lbs dry). I see advantages and disadvantages to both types. I love the White Hawk for its interior space and I think it will give me a longer camping season. But, I'm intimidated by the length. I love the hybrid because of its smaller size and I think it will allow me to camp more remotely. But, it doesn't have the amenities of the White Hawk or as long of a camping season.
So my question is, how will these two units differ while being towed and backed up? Maybe that will help guide my choice. Is a difference of 8' substantial? Is a difference of 2000lbs substantial?
Thank You!
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:09 PM   #2
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I recently just made the move to a X23B and cut 10 foot off my trailer and about 4,000 pounds. You are correct with the differences between the size/type of camper. It really depends on where you will be camping and what you plan to do when you get there. My TV is a Diesel, so weight was not much of a concern with either camper, but the extra 10 foot of drag was a large difference. We were out in the early spring for our first trip with the X23B and it got down in the upper 30s at night, no major difference when comparing the larger TT. My wife and daughter are not completely convinced on the smaller trailer for fewer amenities. We can now camp just about anywhere we want to, with the larger TT our choices were usually reduced by half due to the larger size. I'm glad we downsized and enjoy the tent feel of the hybrid.

Hope this helps & good luck
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:19 PM   #3
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WVCamper,
I am told that I should get an enclosed underbelly if I plan on early spring or late fall camping. Does your unit have this feature?
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:29 PM   #4
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It does, we ordered ours and I believe we paid about $200 for it. Not sure it adds any insulation but I felt like it may add something along with reduced drag and less opportunity for critters to get in. We camp in early April and up until November where it gets fairly cold at night, heated mattresses are a big plus! Heated mattresses pads were another option we got with our X23B, very nice.
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Old 06-03-2014, 09:12 PM   #5
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When we had the F150 Ecoboost shown in my sig, we originally had a Coachmen Freedom Express 230BH LTZ (26'11" nose to tail, 3800 lb empty) and went to the White Hawk 28DSBH. I felt that there wasn't a significant difference in the backing or driving, other than the trailer balance needs to be better watched. The White Hawk tended to sway a more easily if I didn't load it carefully. A good hitch with built-in sway control is a must with the White Hawk.

I didn't see the trim level of your F150 and if it had the Max Tow or HD, but a visit to the CAT Scale is a definite must. Get the weights and your hitch dialed in and you'll love how the Ecoboost pulls that trailer.

The only reason I moved to the diesel is because I tend to travel over the mountains, and the Ecoboost didn't do too well in engine braking.

Good luck with your decision.
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Old 06-03-2014, 09:36 PM   #6
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I believe the extra weight will be more substantial than the extra length. Towing completely flat land is one thing. Any sort of hills are a totally different story.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:41 AM   #7
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Milw156, my Ecoboost does NOT have max tow and has the 3.55 axle. Specs say it should pull about 9500lbs but the payload is only 1361lbs. I know it will tow the White Hawk, but it will be close on payload if not over. I'm a newbie to towing and I am hesitant about that. Also, I'm not a huge fan of crowded camp sites. I kind of like the idea of being able to get to more out of the way spots. I come from a tent and backpacking background... I'm starting to like this 'boondocking' thing I'm reading about!
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:33 AM   #8
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I went thru the same exact decision last year.
I ended up with the whitehawk, my wife fell in love with it instantly.
I could barely get her to look at the x23 hybrid.
We had a small hybrid before and jumping up to the whitehawk added more stress to the driving if it wasnt loaded well or if I was on highways with alot of large trucks.
As someone mentioned earlier better sway control is a must for the whitehawk.
This year I upgraded to a Reese Dual cam WDH and added Timbren SES and Rancho 9000 shocks to the rear to help control the 'bounce' in the rear.
On my test drive the truck felt better but I havent gone up I95 yet, the source of my stress driving.
I think you'll enjoy both but be prepared to make modification/adjustments to your truck with the Whitehawk.
Good luck!
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:36 AM   #9
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I tow a whitehawk 27DSRL with my standard 3.55/w tow package ecoboost... scales out and tows great.
I agree engine braking could be better.. but not to the point where I feel it's a major problem.
I do have the engine tuned & feel these trucks are way better when running them that way.. Ford could have done better.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:42 AM   #10
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I wouldn't be intimidated by the length & weight. With the proper WD Hitch & Sway control, you probably won't see much difference. I've found my 30' Eagle is much easier to back up than my old 18 footer. It comes into the view of your mirrors sooner, so you can make steering corrections sooner than on the shorter trailer. Sure, you might not be able to fit into every remote campsite with a bigger trailer, but there are still many available that will accommodate one. The Hawk also has larger water & waste tanks, which would be important for boondocking. Camping in early spring & late fall are important to me (think hunting seasons), so I ruled out a hybrid rather quickly just based on heat retention.

If you determine your Eco can pull it, I'd go with the White Hawk. JMHO!
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:58 AM   #11
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I agree on the tongue weight. My TV is the ecoboost max tow. My trailer is about 7,500lbs loaded. Pulling is not a problem. I have a family of 5 so cargo weight is the issue.

These TT don't offer much insulation and sound buffer. We can hear other campers music 100 yards away when we are trying to sleep. I would think a hybrid could even be worse about letting sound inside the trailer (if your doing that type of camping around other people). I find myself turning on the blower just to help with outdoor noise.
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:00 AM   #12
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We owned an X23B for roughly 2.5 yrs prior to upgrading to our 5th. We chose the 23B because of the size, short when folded but surprisingly big when the little slide and bunks were out. Loaded ours weighed in at 4800# (we never carried water) and we pulled with our '03 Expedition 5.4. The max trailer weight was 8K#, so we were well below that but weighing at the CAT scale revealed we were about 200# under the rear axle limit. No doubts about your F150 and the 23B but do your math carefully regarding the heavier TT.
Don't let your TT sales person tell you "no problems"!
A visit to the CAT scale will cost you $10 to weigh your truck which will tell you what the rear axle weighs. Subtract that from the Rear GAWR found on the door jamb sticker and you know how much cargo you can add. If you can visit a White Hawk in person you can read its yellow sticker and know its weight. Add a guesstimate to that for your "gear" (say 1000#) and multiply by .15 (15% of the weight should be on the tongue) and you have the load on the truck. If that number is comfortably less (to you) than the cargo calculation - then you should be good to go.
While we loved our 23B (2 Q-sized beds in 24' !) our biggest complaint was the shower.
Our plan from the beginning was to try the 23B to see if we liked TT-ing and upgrade it we did. All of this was planned in anticipation of my "graduation" (retirement).
We got 9-ish mpg so I'd expect you to get similar. The coldest weather we camped in was in the mid-20's and we were comfortable (did not have the belly cover). We used an electric space heater (1500W) which did a nice job of keeping up warm. I don't think we ever used the furnace in anger.
Which ever you choose, ENJOY!
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:10 PM   #13
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Thanks for the replies guys!
Just about all your comments are points that have been running through my head for months now. One thing I didn't consider was that I might have to make modifications to my truck. I planned on getting an Equalizer hitch with sway control, but I figured that would be about it. Rear end bounce with the White Hawk has been brought up a couple of times to me. And, I have a buddy who told me to get load rated tires in place of the factory tires if I go with a trailer that big.
Like RedHorse1 said in his post, I'm getting this trailer to see if I like this type of camping. If I do, I'm sure I'll upgrade. I'd hate to bite off more than I can chew, but that tends to be my nature! LOL
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:22 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by 12VOLTMAN View Post
I'd hate to bite off more than I can chew, but that tends to be my nature! LOL
Yeah, I know the name of that tune too.
One last point, when were discussing the trade with the dealer he seemed eager to get the 23B as the hybrids are pretty popular. I noted that ours sold in about a month. That may affect your resale/trade value when the upgrade happens.
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:22 AM   #15
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Agreed. I thought if the resale angle also. Both of the units I'm looking at have a high resale value. Probably more so with the hybrid simply because there are more vehicles that can tow it.
I fell in love with fifth wheels immediately when we were looking around at different units. I know the way I tend to escalate things. If I really like trailering, I know I'll have a different truck and a fifth wheel within five years. Lol
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:26 AM   #16
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One question not talked about much was about cool/cold weather camping. It really depending on what you call cold weather camping! We typically do not get out early spring as we did not have off street parking at our house for our 23B until just recently. But we extend our fall camping until November, and hopefully even later now. We have been out many times when the overnight lows are in the low 20’s and the highs are 40-50s. No issues at all, no frozen tanks or lines. We do keep the cabinet doors slightly ajar to ensure the pipes stay above freezing. I sleep on the outside edge of the tent. Personally I think it feels a little cool so I add an extra blanket, as my DW is a cover hog, (opps I did not say that did I??). I like being hot, so I may not be a good judge of cooler temps, 95 with equal humidity is just about right. Typically when it is getting cold we stay at places with electric, so we use aftermarket heated mattress pads. They work great! We also typically use an electric heater.

Things we like about the 23B, is it is small when closed, and very large when opened. It can back into just about any campsite, which gives us an incredible freedom of campsites. Gas stations are still nerve racking, but are fully doable. Three weeks ago we stopped at one station twice, if our unit was any larger I am not sure I would have been able to get gas there. The other station in that town was setup even worse for trailers.
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:26 AM   #17
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How has your fifth wheel experience been so far RedHorse1? I hear they tow nicely with all the pin weight directly on the rear axle. Do you tow with a duelly or SRW?
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:31 PM   #18
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I'm actually suprised that the hybrid does that well in cold temps. I have been in some on hot sunny days and they are really hot inside. I'm kind of worried about that. But, on the plus side, I see a huge advantage to having all those screens if it's hot out and you don't have electric available. I think my biggest hang up with the X23B is the cost. Hybrids are expensive for what you get. For about $4000 more I can get the White Hawk 28DSBH and all the amenities that come with it. From a purely $$$ point of view, the 28DSBH is by far the better value.
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:04 PM   #19
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How has your fifth wheel experience been so far RedHorse1? I hear they tow nicely with all the pin weight directly on the rear axle. Do you tow with a duelly or SRW?
We LOVE the 5th! Mostly because of the room. The living area is spacious. Towing is "different". The 5th will turn a corner tighter than the TV so I've scrubbed the curb several times. My right turn mantra is "wide and late". Left turns are a little easier but I still turn wide and late. Our TV is an F350 6.7 short bed. Get a long bed or a slider!
http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/sh...highlight=dumb
The 5th weights in about 12800# and the 6.7 diesel pulls it nicely. That thing is an OX and it loves to pull. I'm seeing 12-13 mpg which I'm very happy with. It pulls very smooth and steady, we have the MorRyde pin box which I'm sure has a lot to do with the smoothness.
Like Jag I also sleep on the outside edge. We don't have the electric bed heaters but use a blanket and king-size down comforter when it's cold. The wiener dog gets me up between 0530 and 0630 for a little "walk" and I turn up the space heater for the bride.
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