New to RVing, checking my math and wondering about "sway"

[dakranii]

We're looking at picking up a Jay Feather SLX that I believe is in my towing range. I've done what I think is the correct math to get where I am.

Vehicle: 08 Dodge Caravan SXT, 4.0 V6
Trailer Tow Prep Group includes according to the vehicle's window sticker:

• Trailer Tow Wiring Harness
  Load Leveling and Height Control
  Heavy Duty Engine Cooling
  Heavy Duty Radiator
  Heavy Duty Transmission [Oil?] Cooler (This is on the fold, can't read it clearly...think it says "oil")

Tow capacity according to manual is 3600 lbs.

Hitch: Curt Class 3

Possible Trailer: Jay Flight SLX 154BH
UVW = 2450
Hitch weight = 260

Calculations:
3600 pounds - 260 hitch weight - estimated 600 people/cargo = 2740. That puts me about 290 pounds below my tow rating.

Combined Gross Vehicle Weight 8700 - van weight 4514 - trailer/people/cargo 3340 = 876 pounds to spare

Questions:

- is there anything I'm missing for figuring weight?

- I keep thinking, Jayco specifically says these trailers are for "made for minivans and crossovers" and I have one of the biggest engines you can get in a minivan and the trailer I've chosen is the second smallest of 5 available...I've got to be okay weight-wise, right? Otherwise what minivan is Jayco talking about here?? :-)

- I keep reading about "anti-sway" bars or sway controls. One product I see looks like it sits between the vehicle hitch and the trailer arm (http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...-controls/7369). I'm pretty ignorant about what I'm looking for here.

- along those lines, weight distribution hitch? I didn't get one. Was that a mistake?

Thanks for any help you can provide a beginner!

[Threebutchers]

dakranii

Your specs are very close ours - we are actually a little "thinner" in some calcs....I think you are going to find your actual tongue weight is closer to 360# (and up). We have to pack our TT very careful to keep the tongue weight down to @ #300 and less. Car and van suspensions tend to be a little soft and most don't "like" 400+ #s levered off the back. And while it's good you have load leveling suspension...you still will want to be conscience of your tongue weight as hitches can have maximum tongue weight ratings.

We have a 400# WDH with sway control.

[Seann45]

you need your tongue weight to be 360 to 490 lbs (10-15%).. less than that and you WILL have sway problems..

[dakranii]

Those seem to be competing suggestions. Threebutchers says tongue weight below 300, Sean says 360 to 490?

Do I control tongue weight with where I load the trailer? Front vs back

[Rustic Eagle]

dakranii,

Welcome to JOF

It appears that your working with the UVW and/or dry weights published by Jayco, which can be a little misleading. The actual "Ship Weight" of the 154BH will be closer to 2,750lbs (approx., check yellow sticker on trailer). What also must be considered is the weight of the RV dealer added items (battery, misc.), adding at least another 50lbs......, figure approximately 2,800lbs off the dealer's lot.

The 154BH has a GVWR of 3,200lbs, which doesn't leave much of a CCC (3,200lbs - 2,800lbs = 400lbs CCC). I believe towing the 154BH at it's 3,200lb GVWR will be highly probable in most cases do to the limited CCC, so the recommended RV manufactures "loaded" tongue weight range should be 320lb to 480lb depending on your personal loading habits (10% - 15% of loaded trailer weight of 3,200lbs). Maintaining a 10% to 15% loaded tongue weight of the loaded trailer weight will provide proper TV handling.

The published Tow Rating of any vehicle doesn't represent the "actual" tow rating, so in your case it will be less then 3,600lbs....., please note: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...uot-Tow-Rating

To reduce the weight guess work, take your Caravan under loaded conditions to a CAT scale and weigh it. Subtract the CAT scale weight from the Caravan's specified GVWR (identified on driver's door)...., the remaining weight is what you have for the trailer's loaded tongue weight and any other Caravan weight not accounted for at the CAT scale.

Once you weigh your loaded Caravan/154BH combination at a CAT scale you can confirm all your actual loaded weights.

Some of the smaller vehicles and OEM receiver hitches aren't designed for using WDH's..., so check your Caravan's owner's manual for any exclusions and/or WDH rating limits. Basically, if the loaded tongue weight of the trailer exceeds the "Weight Carrying" weight limit stamped on the OEM receiver, then a WDH is required as long as the loaded tongue weight doesn't exceed the "Weight Distribution" weight limit stamped on the OEM receiver.

Yes, the incorporation of a properly sized WDH and a sway control device would be recommended........, at least a sway control device like the one shown in the link you provided.

Hope this helps.

Bob

[Threebutchers]

I think Seann misread your figures....

The ship weight of the 154BH is 2,450# (yellow sticker)

Max TT cargo weight is 600# (fully loaded w/ water, camping gear, and options added) - BTW....I weighed all my loaded / add-on gear @ 200#...(not including fresh water)

My gross trailer weight is about 2,800#

Remember it's accepted practice to include 15% of all weight on and behind the rear axle of the TV toward your calculated tongue weight. That includes the hitch gear (mine weighs 80# or 12# additional tongue weight)

I'm perfectly OK with my 300# TT tongue weight + 12# of TV tongue weight = 312# or @ 11%

Bottom line....you are making an OK choice on TT selection. For peace of mind...I would contact the mfg of your non-OEM hitch to check the specs on max tongue weight and WDH compatibility.

[dakranii]

Thank you for the reply.

Just removing some of the complication here (I'm imagining the look I'll get when I tell my wife we're going to pack for camping but not actual go camping, but rather drive down the interstate to the closest weigh station), I keep coming back to this thought:

Jayco specifically says these trailers are for "made for minivans and crossovers" and I have one of the biggest engines you can get in a minivan and the trailer I've chosen is the second smallest of 5 available...I've got to be okay weight-wise, right? Otherwise what minivan is Jayco talking about here? They would be irresponsible to suggest that a product is made for a particular vehicle when even the most hardy of those vehicles can't actually handle it.

Perhaps I'm being naïve, perhaps I'm being lazy.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Threebutchers

snip......The ship weight of the 154BH is 2,450# (yellow sticker)........snip

That's good to know because just about every other Jayco HTT, TT, and FW the actual Ship Weight (yellow sticker) is anywhere from 250lbs to 700lbs above the published UVW (depending on how it is configured). In the case of the 154BH having the UVW and Ship Weight at 2,450lbs works in favor of the limited CCC.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Bob

[dakranii]

Threebutchers and Rustic Eagle, thank you for the replies, they are both helpful. That makes me feel more comfortable about my decision.

Looking to clarify this point, as it's a new one to me:

"Remember it's accepted practice to include 15% of all weight on and behind the rear axle of the TV toward your calculated tongue weight."

So my hitch and ball mount weigh 59 pounds combined. I would also include anything I've got stored in the back of the van, so camping equipment. Say another 50 pounds. Total I've got 109 pounds behind the rear axle.

15% of that is about 16 pounds. I'd add that to the 260 pound tongue weight of the 154BH?

[dakranii]

I figured I'd just pack our cargo in the van rather than the trailer. But that might not be best practice. Where should I pack my stuff, the back of the van or in the trailer. And if in the trailer, back, front?

[bbrown]

Originally Posted by dakranii

I figured I'd just pack our cargo in the van rather than the trailer. But that might not be best practice. Where should I pack my stuff, the back of the van or in the trailer. And if in the trailer, back, front?

I'd put it in the van if you have room and weight capacity. Why? It will be less weight behind the hitch to affect sway control and handling. Don't forget to figure in the weight of batteries, propane and fresh water. These aren't figured in on the UVW...battery +40-50lbs. per batt, + 37 lbs. propane per 20# cylinder. These weights are often on the trailer tongue so figure in that as well. Suprisingly, these alone can significantly effect handling and sway if the tongue weight gets to be too high. In which case, you may need to rear load your TT with cargo to offset this added load.

[Jagiven]

One more thing I would do is call you vehicle’s manufacture, have your vin number in hand. I would ask them about the tow capacity and how they calculate it. Is it based having a full tank of fuel and only the driver, or is it based on having an occupant in each seat and no cargo, or with cargo. My brother’s last minivan had the tow rating listed as just a single number. His current minivan has it listed multiple times based on the number of passengers, but it does not mention anything about interior cargo. I would also ask about your hitch and its capacity (if it is an OEM hitch).

As for hitches, if your vehicle can handle a WDH I would strongly recommend one with an integrated anti-sway system, such as Equilizer or the Reese Dual Cam brands.

You are doing the right thing by asking the questions now.

[Threebutchers]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

That's good to know because just about every other Jayco HTT, TT, and FW the actual Ship Weight (yellow sticker) is anywhere from 250lbs to 700lbs above the published UVW (depending on how it is configured). In the case of the 154BH having the UVW and Ship Weight at 2,450lbs works in favor of the limited CCC.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Bob

Wanted to make sure I was on target, so here's the "yellow sticker" on my 154BH...It's 2,550# (not 2,450#), however, they include a full propane tank.....



Dakranii - as Rustic, myself and Roy have indicated....you do want to pursue the option of WDH and at minimum....anti-sway

[Threebutchers]

Originally Posted by dakranii

So my hitch and ball mount weigh 59 pounds combined. I would also include anything I've got stored in the back of the van, so camping equipment. Say another 50 pounds. Total I've got 109 pounds behind the rear axle.

15% of that is about 16 pounds. I'd add that to the 260 pound tongue weight of the 154BH?

Yes sir...while it's not directly applying pressure on the ball and hitch.....you are adding to the compression of the TV springs (how your vehicles sits) and how much weight is actually being managed by the WDH bars (if present).

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by dakranii

snip....... that is about 16 pounds. I'd add that to the 260 pound tongue weight of the 154BH?

As mentioned, it isn't so much that the "percentage" of weight is added directly to the 154BH's loaded tongue weight directly, it actually has an effect on sizing some WDH's because the WDH spring bars will also be supporting a percentage (depends on location) of the added cargo weight behind a given TV's rear axle. This becomes more of a realized issue when folks place heavy items like generators, fire wood, golf carts, etc., behind the rear axle. But as you are aware, any added TV cargo weight, WDH weight, and loaded tongue weight should not allow the TV to exceed it's specified GVWR.

Referencing your estimate of 109lbs of added weight behind your rear axle, your TV would incur the full 109lbs, not a percentage of the weight.

Also, remember that Jayco's published 260lb tongue (hitch) weight is based on an "unloaded" 154BH, thinking in terms of a potential "loaded" tongue weight would be more realistic.

It's great that you are taking the time to understand the relationship/impact of loaded TV and HTT weights..., it will pay dividends going forward.

Bob

[Denise]

FYI.... watch the hitch limit of your mini-van.

We towed a 3000lb+ (loaded) Casita with a 2006 Honda Odyssey mini-van. Most of those mini-vans have a hitch limit of 300lbs. Consider what you will be stowing in the rear of the mini-van as added weight. Not a tow-techy, but from experience, hope this helps

[dakranii]

Originally Posted by healthi

FYI.... watch the hitch limit of your mini-van.

Sorry, explain this further to me. I'm not sure what you mean by "hitch limit." This entire world of terminology and acronyms and options is new to me as of about a week ago, so I'm trying to keep up. I'm getting a Curt class III hitch put on the van. (http://www.curtmfg.com/part/13364/). It's 4000/400 and 5000/500 with a WDH.

[dakranii]

I'm looking at WDHs now. Lots of options. Another set of confusing bits to sort through. I'm assuming I'm looking for something with 600 lbs.

During my search I came across the Andersen WDH. I like it. I see that the jury is still out on it, at least based on what I've read. But with the light weight of my trailer, I'm sensing the outstanding questions may not be an issue for me? As in, the outstanding issues seem to be around considerably heavier loads.

Otherwise, if the prevailing wisdom is that I should stick with a traditional WDH, please help me understand sway control.

Some WDHs include sway control and some don't? With those that don't, do I get a separate sway control device?

[Crabman]

Originally Posted by dakranii

I'm looking at WDHs now. Lots of options. Another set of confusing bits to sort through. I'm assuming I'm looking for something with 600 lbs.

During my search I came across the Andersen WDH. I like it. I see that the jury is still out on it, at least based on what I've read. But with the light weight of my trailer, I'm sensing the outstanding questions may not be an issue for me? As in, the outstanding issues seem to be around considerably heavier loads.

Otherwise, if the prevailing wisdom is that I should stick with a traditional WDH, please help me understand sway control.

Some WDHs include sway control and some don't? With those that don't, do I get a separate sway control device?

Yes some WD systems such as the Equalizer and Reese SC with Dual cam incorporate sway control into the WD system. Other systems just take care of the weight distribution in which case a " friction sway bar" would be added. Not familiar with the Anderson. I know all this can seem overwhelming at first but you will get through it!


Friction sway bar:



Equalizer hitch system WITH sway control




WD system with NO sway control:

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by dakranii

Isnip........ Otherwise, if the prevailing wisdom is that I should stick with a traditional WDH, please help me understand sway control.......snip

I agree, IMO keep it simple with the 154BH, if you go with a WDH I would stay with a light duty conventional WDH (Reese, DrawTite, Husky, etc.) and add the standard friction control sway bar like the one you provided a link to in an earlier post (like the pic that Crabman posted).

Bob