Payload vs. Kingpin Tongue weight confusion

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Hoojs12840

This is from a 2015 gmc 3500 SLE SRW diesel crew cab 4x4.
Attachment 20953

This is from my 2013 2013 GMC 2500 SLE SRW diesel crew cab 4x4.

Attachment 20954

It's all to keep some idiot in WASHINGTON happy IMHO.

They are using some new formula even though nothing has really changed mechanically. In fact the 2015 has more horsepower IIRC.

[mtedelen]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

So, can anyone put up a pic or list what the GAWRs are on a 3500? That should be the telltale giveaway, don't you think?

My truck (2015 RAM 2500 Crew, 6.4L HEMI, 4x4) lists the front axle GAWR at 5500 and rear axle GAWR at 6500 (that's 12K for those numerically challenged ). And lists the vehicle GVWR at 10K. That's per the VIN plate on the vehicle.

Anyone know what the sticker says on a 3500?

It's not uncommon for the axles to add up to more than the GVWR, but I'm just curious what those are in the 1-Tons.

Attatched is the towing chart for a 3500 Megacab 4x4. It shows 6000# and 7000#. The 2500 Megacab is 6000# and 6500# respectively.

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by mtedelen

Attatched is the towing chart for a 3500 Megacab 4x4. It shows 6000# and 7000#. The 2500 Megacab is 6000# and 6500# respectively.

I had seen that chart and similar before. I didn't know it had GAWRs on it.

Anyway, interesting that there's only 500 lbs difference on the rear axle between the 4x4 2500 and 3500 in SRW Mega Cab version.

[mtedelen]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

I had seen that chart and similar before. I didn't know it had GAWRs on it.

Anyway, interesting that there's only 500 lbs difference on the rear axle between the 4x4 2500 and 3500 in SRW Mega Cab version.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Makes it sound like the GVWR is an arbitrary number for regulation purposes. Looks like i'll end up with the 2500 and if anything throw some Timbrens or Sumosprings on it. Alternatively Superspring also makes a heavy duty replacement coil for the 16' 2500. It's supposed to give an extra 975#'s of payload.

[3'senough]

Are all 2500/3500 SRW's equipped with coil springs and air ride now? Just curious how that plays into the equation? I did not study the sheet and if this covered I apologize for missing.

What I don't like is that you cannot change your rear ratios with SRW's. That is a big miss IMHO.

[mtedelen]

Originally Posted by 3'senough

Are all 2500/3500 SRW's equipped with coil springs and air ride now? Just curious how that plays into the equation? I did not study the sheet and if this covered I apologize for missing.

What I don't like is that you cannot change your rear ratios with SRW's. That is a big miss IMHO.

2500 comes standard with coils, or as an option you can get airbag suspension in lieu of the coils. The 3500 comes standard with leaves and as an option you can order supplemental air bags.

The spec sheets are based only on standard suspension parts i.e. Coils on the 2500 and leaves on the 3500.

[3'senough]

Something is off here. When you search inventory on the Ram web site none of the 2500 Mega Cabs are north of 2300# payload and all the 3500 show 3900# for SRW .

This would make more sense to me with the coils vs leafs. Might want to confirm the specs with Ram.

The 3500 spring pac is stiff. My unit only makes my bed sink an inch.

[mtedelen]

Originally Posted by 3'senough

Something is off here. When you search inventory on the Ram web site none of the 2500 Mega Cabs are north of 2300# payload and all the 3500 show 3900# for SRW .

This would make more sense to me with the coils vs leafs. Might want to confirm the specs with Ram.

The 3500 spring pac is stiff. My unit only makes my bed sink an inch.

I'm pretty sure you're right. None of the 2500's are above a 2300# payload. Don't think there is anything to confirm unless I'm missing something.

[jsallman1]

Originally Posted by mtedelen

I'm pretty sure you're right. None of the 2500's are above a 2300# payload. Don't think there is anything to confirm unless I'm missing something.

Some of the 2500's definitely are higher, if this is true it must be due to the megacab. My 2015 2500 (Crew cab, not mega) I just bought has a payload of 3042lbs remaining, this is from the tire and loading info sticker on the door. This is a Laramie so has quite a few of the creature comforts, I will add running boards which will take this down marginally. The GVWR is at 10k lbs.

This has the HEMI 6.4 engine, the Cummins steals a LOT of payload capacity, I ruled out diesels in a 3/4 ton cause I wouldn't gain much (if anything) over my old 2013 F150 Maxtow.

[NC Hauler]

Originally Posted by jsallman1

Some of the 2500's definitely are higher, if this is true it must be due to the megacab. My 2015 2500 (Crew cab, not mega) I just bought has a payload of 3042lbs remaining, this is from the tire and loading info sticker on the door. This is a Laramie so has quite a few of the creature comforts, I will add running boards which will take this down marginally. The GVWR is at 10k lbs.

This has the HEMI 6.4 engine, the Cummins steals a LOT of payload capacity, I ruled out diesels in a 3/4 ton cause I wouldn't gain much (if anything) over my old 2013 F150 Maxtow.

comparing an F150 gasser to a 3/4 ton diesel equipped truck, and saying you wouldn't come out ahead, even with more GCWR, GVWR AND RAWR, and much more grunt??

That's a stretch, more grunt with the diesel, better mpg , even over the 3/4 ton 6.4. If you don't believe it, go to the Cummins forum and get real life experiences from those who had a diesel, went to the 6.4 hemi, then went back to the Cummins. Diesels will normally have higher GCWR than the gas equipped trucks, comparing apples to apples...Also, GVWR on most Ram 3500 SRW trucks is 12,300#.... 2300# higher than a 2500 trucks 10000#, and RAWR is, as stated, also higher on the 3500SRW

[hboy]

My image did not want to load. My Ram 3500 SRW diesel 4wd mega cab short bed

GVWR: 12,300

Front axle: 6,000

Rear axle: 7,000

Payload on sticker is 4,133

[hboy]

My scale weight with wife and kids =

Front axle 5,180
Rear axle 3,480

Gross weight with full fuel and family is 8,660

[NC Hauler]

I thought RAWR was higher than 6500#. I knew GVWR was 12,300# for the 3500 SRW.. Same as my 2012 dually��

[Camper_bob]

Interesting! I would expect the rear GAWR on the 3500s to be north of 8K... As it is they're only 500 lbs different.

[jsallman1]

Originally Posted by NC Hauler

comparing an F150 gasser to a 3/4 ton diesel equipped truck, and saying you wouldn't come out ahead, even with more GCWR, GVWR AND RAWR, and much more grunt??

That's a stretch, more grunt with the diesel, better mpg , even over the 3/4 ton 6.4. If you don't believe it, go to the Cummins forum and get real life experiences from those who had a diesel, went to the 6.4 hemi, then went back to the Cummins. Diesels will normally have higher GCWR than the gas equipped trucks, comparing apples to apples...Also, GVWR on most Ram 3500 SRW trucks is 12,300#.... 2300# higher than a 2500 trucks 10000#, and RAWR is, as stated, also higher on the 3500SRW

Sorry, I should have stipulated I was PURELY talking about the available payload numbers from the manufacturer, thats all. Definitely cant speak power wise, I am quite sure mileage and power is better with the turbo diesels of each brand variety. Its also quite clear that if your gonna tow over payload, your MUCH better (safer) doing it with the 3/4 Ton units with the artificial 10,000 lb GVWR limit which usually share axles etc with their 1 ton counterparts than a half ton thats at its maxes to get to its GVWR.

For example, when I was shopping, and was looking at the Diesel payload numbers, I was finding remaining payloads of 2093 lbs on a '15 F250 Crew with the powerstroke, compared to my '13 F150 Supercrew Maxtow at 1832, that wasn't a whole lot of gain (on payload). The same '15 F250 similarly equipped in a Gasser had 2791 payload remaining.

The other brands were similar numbers.

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by 3'senough

Something is off here. When you search inventory on the Ram web site none of the 2500 Mega Cabs are north of 2300# payload and all the 3500 show 3900# for SRW .

This would make more sense to me with the coils vs leafs. Might want to confirm the specs with Ram.

The 3500 spring pac is stiff. My unit only makes my bed sink an inch.

I think you are only seeing diesel trucks with that 2300 lbs payload.

My 2015 CC with the CTD is rated at 2300 lbs payload.
My friend has a 2015 CC with the 6.4 and is rated at 3100 lbs payload.

I have 250 lbs higher rating on my front axle than he does, since I have the diesel.

I have no doubt in my mind that the rear coils can easily support 3100+lbs. The low payload number is only because I have a 3/4 ton truck, class limited to 10K lbs GVWR. While I haven't tried it and certainly don't condone it, I imagine I could easily exceed my 2300 lbs payload by half a ton and have no adverse effects.

One of the guys that we camp with has a MASSIVE 40' 5er with 3 huge slides that he pulls with a 2014 Ram 2500 with the CTD. I know for a fact he is WAY over payload just with pin weight, not even including his family of 4 and a huge St Bernard dog. It wouldn't surprise me if he is 1500+ lbs over his GVWR. Truck pulls fine and doesn't squat more than about 2 inches.

[Hoojs12840]

I'm not advocating or condoning it but my 2013 GMC CC 4x4 with a 6.5ft bed tows a 16,000#, 42.5' 5th wheel. Pin weight of 4000#'s.

I'm going to upgrade to a 2015/2016 3500 SRW before spring towing season. My current truck doesn't ride or squat any different than when I towed my 37' 11,000 5th wheel.

[NC Hauler]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

Interesting! I would expect the rear GAWR on the 3500s to be north of 8K... As it is they're only 500 lbs different.

RAWR IS 1k difference between the 2500 and 3500 SRW... GVWR OF 2500 is 10,000#, on the 3500SRW, it's 12,300#.

The dually offers a RAWR of 9750# and a GVWR of 14,000#.

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by NC Hauler

RAWR IS 1k difference between the 2500 and 3500 SRW... GVWR OF 2500 is 10,000#, on the 3500SRW, it's 12,300#.

The dually offers a RAWR of 9750# and a GVWR of 14,000#.

According to the chart presented by mtedelen, and hboy's sticker numbers, at least in the mega cab SRW configuration, the rear axles are only rated 500 lbs apart. DRW is a different animal, and that 9750 rating doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is the low rear GAWR on the SRW configurations.

[hboy]

Here are the pics from Ram 3500 Diesel; 4wd; Mega cab; SRW; factory gooseneck 5th wheel prep;