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Old 09-04-2016, 09:17 AM   #11
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IMO, if the tires noticeably tip out at the bottom (or top for that matter) something is wrong. I have heard that trailer axles are designed with a bow in the axle. When installed in a trailer, the trailer weight flattens out the axle to its proper running position. If the axle is installed upside down, then you get the excessive angle of the tires. I have no experience with this, I just heard about it on these and other forums.
If you keep getting the "run around" try taking the trailer to someplace that specializes in repairing all types of trailers.
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Old 09-04-2016, 09:56 AM   #12
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I'd say if a good samaritan took the time to follow you home to tell you something looked wrong with the tires, then there must be something very wrong. That happened a while before the blowout, so it's been going on for a while. Not something that just happened the last few hundred miles.

I know you said there was no way the trailer was overloaded.
Without knowing that, I would say the axles have both been overloaded causing them to bend. 572lbs comes easy.

The other thing it could be is the wheel bearings. We still don't know how old the HTT's is. I assume it is pretty new as you mentions the warrantee is still in effect.
After the first few hundred miles did you tighten the wheel bearings?
Something that's often overlooked that the dealer should be on top of but usually is not.
Most of the time it doesn't cause a problem, a lot of people only put a few hundred miles a season on their trailers so when they have the wheel bearings repacked after a season or two they get tightened then.

You are racking up miles faster than most so if this is a new trailer that never had the bearings tightened it could be the cause of the problem.

Any new trailer, or new axle, or new hub, or new bearing needs to break in. Then be re tightened.

Good luck!
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Old 09-04-2016, 09:59 AM   #13
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I think that Jayco will do right by you... If what the dealer tells you after the inspection isn't what you want to here, contact Jayco directly!! It's not unusual for the communication between the dealer and Jayco to get a little, well, confused.
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:09 AM   #14
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When I tightened my wheel bearings after about 400 miles they were loose.
With the tire off the ground and grabbing the tire at 12 and 6 o'clock I could rack the wheel 1" top and bottom.

So if you've driven thousands....
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Old 09-05-2016, 07:50 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by freemanbobj View Post
Hi and thanks all for feedback...it all helps. To recap, we were driving in Maine , near the end of a 2,000 mile, three week road trip, when a tire blew to shreds on my Jayco x23b. As the very nice AAA guy was putting the spare on my left rear of a dual axle set, he pointed out We Had a much bigger problem....all the other three tires were worn right down to the steel belt showing, all on the INSIDE of the tires. So, we crawled to a tire dealer in Harrington,Me, where we met another super nice and honest guy who ordered four Goodyear ST175/80r13's for next day delivery. His price was LOWER than the Walmart online price!
Then, we limped into Bangor,Maine, to McKays RV , a Jayco dealer, who said he could take a look the next day, so we once again overnighted unscheduled.
Mike Sr, another super decent and honest guy, told us we were ok to drive the remaining 600 miles to my dealer in Ontario, but that I should get new axles and new tires , under warranty , the two year one from Jayco, once we got back.

We drove back all the way at 50mph or so on the brand new Goodyears, without a problem, but presumably with the tires wearing unevenly once again.

So now my trailer is sitting at my dealer's,waiting for inspection . Questions I have, begging for feedback:

1. The Dexter axle manual says that when all tires wear out on the inside of the tire,it's due to 'loss of camber' and alignment is the remedy.Anyone else had something like this happen to them?

Yes, on our 1007 pup. This isn't 100% the same as your situation as the pups have "normal" axles. You actually have Torflex axles that are more integrated into the frame.

2. Steve, Mike's service manager told me they don't do alignment, they replace the axles. Has anyone had any experience with axle replacement? We are still in the two year warranty period.

We had two choices, replace the axles, or find a truck repair place that does alignment on large semi-trailers that might try a much smaller axle. Unfortunately our repair shop could not find a replacement anywhere in Canada, so after much discussion we decided to upgrade our TT after our Jayco dealer offered excellent trade-in value. He would get the part from Jayco US over the winter. FWIW - I was surprised at how inexpensive trailer axles are (when you can find them).

Note that an axle swap for you won't be quite as easy as a standard axle because of the way the torflex mounts. a standard axle is literally four bolts.

3. I am fearing I am going to get told there's nothing wrong with the axles by my dealer, who is fairly small and is having a trailer axle guy from down the road look at it. Can anyone suggest what would be my next step?

I would probably get down on my belly and take some pictures that clearly indicate the toe out of the wheels. Then approach Jayco and see what they say. The toe is going to be pretty obvious if someone actually stopped you to comment.

4. I've done a lot of reading about this and it seems there are tons of measurements that can be taken, but with my pea brain, I find it hard to understand what's what. If I get given a bunch of numbers, is there anyone here who can interpret them for me? Or can you tell me what numbers I should be asking for, with respect to camber, axle bend, etc?

Dexter has manuals for this, but I expect different numbers for different frame/axle combos. I wouldn't sweat the numbers too much

5. Overloading was not and never has been an issue with my towing. On the day when the tire blew out while driving, there was not more than 400 lb in and on the trailer, including propane tanks and batteries, and my side sticker says my max is 572 added lbs. We've never ever had enough extra weight in the trailer to get anywhere near that. Would anyone agree with me that when all four tires wear all evenly in the same place down to the belts exposed, overloading in this scenario is anyway highly unlikely ?

IMO the only thing that causes this inside tire wear is axle de-camber. okay, the loose bearing is possible too, but I expect that would cause a lot of heat problems and shimmy alongside. There are two probable causes for the de-camber; either constant overloading or road hazard (that's what happened to my pup). Just like your car can lose alignment after hitting a pot-hole, similar things can happen to your trailer. As you said in your first post, you were driving a very bumpy road - do you do this often? Note that overload will correct itself by unloading the TT. If you still show off camber with all your cargo removed, then the problem is more likely to be a bent axle.

6. Ever since we got the trailer, I've noticed that the rear tires are tilted off-vertical when parked, especially when parked on an angle. I've always been told 'that's normal'... Anybody else ever noticed this degree of 'camber'?

When you say "off vertical" do you mean camber or caster? Often when backing into a tight spot, your tires will appear to have an off caster (side twist) from the turning forces while backing. If at all possible, it is best to unload the tire forces by finishing with a short straight back or forward movement. A bit of camber-in (tilting in at the bottom so the tires are a bit to the outside edge) is normal in an unloaded trailer and should flatten as cargo is loaded. Camber-out is not normal.

7. Some would say, well you should have noticed that when you periodically checked your tires. A month ago when I was towing home thru my city, a guy followed me home to tell me he thought my tires were 'bent on an unhealthy angle' while driving. He and I both looked from the back and it was noticeable but not excessively while parked. We certainly didn't see any belts showing on the tires. I called my dealer the next day and was told 'that's normal. Also when I tightened all the wheel lugs before leaving for this recent trip , I never noticed any wear on the inside of any tire. Either it wasn't there or its in a place when you just can't see it without pulling the tire off. My question here is, how long would it take for all 4 tires to wear this badly... A long period of time, eg 10,000 miles, or could it happen in just a few hundred miles of driving?

Once I hit the road hazard, I destroyed a new (beginning of season) set of tires in one trip of about 500km. It did not take long at all! My guess would be that you hit a road hazard about two trips ago based on timing and comments you made in your post - large swale or speed bump with all 4 axles. Do you recall such an incident?

Sorry for the length, but my reading of these forums tells me there are some very intelligent and knowledgable folks out there who can help me get through this. At the very least, we've all been there (or somewhere around there) and done something like this. If You are one of the experts on this, or have had a similar experience, please post?
The above are my opinions based on personal experience. They may or may not represent your actual situation - just trying to sleuth it out from what you have posted.

Note also that the 23B has the lowest CCC of all of the Jayco HTT's. Your axles are pretty close to capacity before you start loading - this was a design tradeoff that Jayco made. Actually Jayco often makes this tradeoff to keep the towable weight down and attract more buyers. It is even possible that your TT was damaged when delivered - perhaps a road hazard on the delivery trip to your dealer. PDI isn't so stringent that it will catch this kind of thing. If you find you have to swap out the axles, give some serious investigation to installing a different heavier load axle if at all possible. There will be less likelihood of a recurrence.

Good luck!
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Old 09-05-2016, 08:05 AM   #16
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tires

I know kinda off subject but anyone know what is the max pressure a tire should reach if cold pressure is 85 psi going down the road for an hour or so ???
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Old 09-05-2016, 10:04 AM   #17
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It depends on many factors. Speed, ambient temp. , type tire, road condition etc.
on interstates at 60-65 mph mine run about 10-15 deg over ambient temp.



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Old 09-05-2016, 01:00 PM   #18
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temp I understand just wondering about PSI
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Old 09-06-2016, 05:53 AM   #19
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Thank you for this very valuable feedback! A few comments, using my numbers above to relate to what you said on each point:

1. It sounds like your dealer found it impossible to find a replacement axle. I was hoping that Dexter would just ship another pair of axles for me....not necessarily going to be the case, or were your axles maybe just 'Rare'? I too am in Canada...does that make it harder to get them?

Also, I did start a claim with my insurance company as well. Am I better off going with my Jayco warranty or with the insurance claim, is another question that I thought of?

5. Regarding thinking about some preceding driving experience, at the beginning of our trip, we drove thru Montreal on HWY 40 and they were the WORST roads we have ever driven on....the pavement was just covered in patches and dips and what all ....it was an hour of pure hell. We put another 1,200 miles or so going out to PEI then back thru Maine where this all happened. From your post, it sounds like that would be enough miles to wear the tires down to the belts?

7. That Montreal experience seems to describe exactly what you say here in point #7 feedback, with the miles you project being put on after the experience all compressed into the fact that we were at the beginning of a 2,000 mile trip.

A follow up request for feedback.... It is true that the wheel bearings are right about at the point where the Dexter manual says they need to be serviced...12,000 miles. You describe overheating and significant tire wobble as symptoms of that problem...on our trip back with new tires, I constantly checked the hubs with the back of my hand for heat buildup and never any.

Would this lack of heat in 700 miles, the fact that the hub/spindles showed no 'searing' or anything when the dealer was putting new tires on, and the fact that all four tires showed the exact same wear pattern to the exact same degree....does this rule out wheel bearings, or is it still a possible cause of what happened?

Thanks again for everone's time reading this and especially to the last poster!
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Old 09-06-2016, 06:19 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by bankr63 View Post
Note also that the 23B has the lowest CCC of all of the Jayco HTT's. Your axles are pretty close to capacity before you start loading - this was a design tradeoff that Jayco made. Actually Jayco often makes this tradeoff to keep the towable weight down and attract more buyers. It is even possible that your TT was damaged when delivered - perhaps a road hazard on the delivery trip to your dealer. PDI isn't so stringent that it will catch this kind of thing. If you find you have to swap out the axles, give some serious investigation to installing a different heavier load axle if at all possible. There will be less likelihood of a recurrence.

Good luck!
Many RVs play the weight game; it seems especially prominent on some of the Jayco Ultralight HTTs. The x17Z plays it awfully close to the vest. The one I had years ago had about 300 pounds left after the propane tank, battery, and HW tank were filled. That's not a lot of anything to be honest. Its the primary reason I dumped the trailer way too early - I was afraid to put anything in it.
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