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Old 04-27-2016, 08:21 PM   #1
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The Numbers Part II -- Whitehawk 27 DSRL

I had posted in a previous thread that we are looking to upgrade from our Jayflight 24FBS to a larger unit. But because we have an older F150, we need to keep the weight and hitch weight under control!

Our latest consideration is a 2016 Whitehawk DSRL.

So here are the numbers:

Truck:
2010 Ford F150 SuperCrew Lariat, with 5.4 L V8 and 3:73 rear axle and Tow Max package
Payload is 1465
Towing capacity is 11,300 lbs
GVWR 7700lbs
Front and Rear GAWR are both 4050 lbs
Gross Combined Weight is 17,100 lbs (truck and anything we're pulling)

2016 Whitehawk DSRL:
GVW -- 7500 lbs
Unloaded Vehicle Weight is 5980
Dry Hitch is 620, but at 7500 lbs it would be more like 750 to 800lbs, depending on what we pack. The trailer would never be at GVW as we do not dry camp. We never travel with the water tank full, if it has anything at all.

Thoughts folks? I know alot of people tow this trailer with a F-150, but they are often the newer version with a bit more payload.....

Thanks in advance for your input.
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Old 04-27-2016, 08:43 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ykcamom View Post
I had posted in a previous thread that we are looking to upgrade from our Jayflight 24FBS to a larger unit. But because we have an older F150, we need to keep the weight and hitch weight under control!

Our latest consideration is a 2016 Whitehawk DSRL.

So here are the numbers:

Truck:
2010 Ford F150 SuperCrew Lariat, with 5.4 L V8 and 3:73 rear axle and Tow Max package
Payload is 1465
Towing capacity is 11,300 lbs
GVWR 7700lbs
Front and Rear GAWR are both 4050 lbs
Gross Combined Weight is 17,100 lbs (truck and anything we're pulling)

2016 Whitehawk DSRL:
GVW -- 7500 lbs
Unloaded Vehicle Weight is 5980
Dry Hitch is 620, but at 7500 lbs it would be more like 750 to 800lbs, depending on what we pack. The trailer would never be at GVW as we do not dry camp. We never travel with the water tank full, if it has anything at all.

Thoughts folks? I know alot of people tow this trailer with a F-150, but they are often the newer version with a bit more payload.....

Thanks in advance for your input.
It looks to me like you would be OK. You will need a weight distribution hitch if you don't have one already.
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Old 04-27-2016, 08:58 PM   #3
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Is that payload as per scales or the door?
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Old 04-27-2016, 09:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiankid View Post
Is that payload as per scales or the door?
The door.
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Old 04-27-2016, 09:03 PM   #5
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If you have access to a scale I would load your truck the way you camp, family, dog, full tank of gas and whatever you put in the box and go weight it. I was very surprised!
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Old 04-27-2016, 09:05 PM   #6
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It does look like you'll have room but that's the number I'd think would be close.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:16 PM   #7
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I sent you a PM as we have the same truck (mine is an XLT vs your Lariat) but same engine and same gear ratio. My payload however based on the door sticker is 1649 so I have a little more cargo capacity. The truck does struggle towing up grades and I have to mash the pedal down to keep it above 50 mph. I also averaged about 9 mpg on the last trip.
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Old 04-28-2016, 08:03 AM   #8
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My TV is a '91 Bronco (shorter WB F150) towing a '15 Whitehawk 27DSRL. The best improvement to my TV was changing the 3.55:1 gears to 4.56:1. And because of the short wheel base I use the Pro Pride hitch which I swear by. We towed 4K miles last summer with no trailer sway and went through the Eisenhower Tunnel (11,300 ft) without a problem.
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Old 04-28-2016, 08:47 AM   #9
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Ykca,

It looks like you are figuring your loaded tw a little low. On average, most trailers need 12-15% tw for a safe stable tow. This is as measured with a scale under the coupler, not what the "net" tw is once hooked up with the wd bars latched up. So a 7000lb tt could have a 840lb-1050lb tw.

As mentioned, load the truck up like you would for a trip, and with all the family, go weigh the truck. That will give a more accurate weight to see if the estimated tw of the WH will still keep you under the gvwr of the 150.

I believe there is a link to a CAT Scale locator in my how to use a CAT Scale signature link.

Good luck!
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Old 04-28-2016, 09:07 AM   #10
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I also think you will be close on the weights. I would expect a TW around 1000# when loaded. Your payload of 1400# is for both axles and does not include you, a passenger or three, fuel or gear in the bed.
The CAT Scale is your friend.
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Old 04-28-2016, 10:25 AM   #11
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Actually, as I read my F150 owner's manual, the fuel weight is not part of the payload weight. The base curb weight includes full tank of fuel and all standard equipment. The payload is defined as "the combined weight of all cargo and passengers." Cargo weight is defined as "all weight added to the Base Curb Weight, including cargo, optional equipment and trailer tongue load with towing." The maximum payload is on the Tire Label on the B-Pillar of the edge of driver's door. "The combined weight of all occupants and cargo should never exceed: XXXX"
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Old 04-28-2016, 01:37 PM   #12
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WyEm, your payload is your GVWR minus the actual weight of your truck. My sticker on my Silverado said I had aprox 1500lbs payload. Can't remember the number exactly, but that number doesn't take into account anything that's been added since the truck left factory. Mud flaps, bed liner, running boards, hitch, etc. Best way to know what your payload(remaining) is, go to the scales, weight the truck. My 1500lbs turned to 1000lbs real quick with just myself, hitch and all the truck add on's. GVWR-actual truck weight=remaining payload
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Old 04-29-2016, 02:56 PM   #13
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YKmom, I am towing with the same truck but in the XLT model. I am a bit surprised that your Lariat has 250 lbs less payload. My 2010 Screw XLT 4X4 with 6.5 box with Maxtow and 3.73 gears has 1730 lbs of payload. You may want to hit the scales to verify your available payload.

This will be my 3rd summer towing our Eagle 28 BHBE which is slightly heavier and slightly heavier tongue weight (between 950 to 1000 lbs) than the trailer you are considering and I wouldn't hesitate to get another F150 when the time for a new truck comes. Everywhere we camp we are able to fill our water tanks at the destination so we are not hauling.
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Old 04-29-2016, 09:07 PM   #14
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YKmom,

We're wrestling with the same concerns. WyEm is right - fuel weight does not subtract from your payload capacity. Like Ottawasteve, we have the same basic truck as you, but ours is an XLT like his. We end up with a little more payload capacity than you only because the Lariat's additional options/accessories eat into the available payload some.

This 2010 payload guide from Ford is invaluable in figuring out exactly what your actual truck can do, providing the weight of every option/accessory. If you know what factory options you have, you can figure out to the pound what your actual payload is as delivered from the factory, which SHOULD match your door sticker: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...%20Payload.pdf.

But as Canadiankid says, you then have to account for EVERY after-factory option on the truck. Added LT tires? They'll be heavier. Bed liner and tonneau cover? More weight. Even seemingly small items like rubber floor mats, mud guards, an after market remote starter, Timbrens or air bags to enhance your suspension, first aid kit, flares, warning triangles, etc. - it all adds up. That's why a trip to the scales is the right thing to do.

For example, my truck's door sticker says I have 1,727 lbs for payload, but it's really closer to 1,650 lbs. due to a few aftermarket items. My actual truck weight when loaded for towing/camping, with full gas tank and passengers, is 6,420 lbs, and that's against a GVWR of 7,675. That leaves me just 1,255 lbs, which my tongue weight of about 900-950 lbs. will eat most of.

So while our trucks can definitely TOW a 7,500 lb. trailer, it's the PAYLOAD weight which is the limiting factor (as well as max allowable TONGUE weight, which on our trucks, with a weight distributing hitch, is just north of 1,100 lbs). I figure my payload safety margin is around 280 lbs at the moment, which is tighter than I'd like. We live in the Northeast and don't have a lot of grades or mountain passes to contend with, but a larger truck may be in our future if we find it tough going with our new 28DSBH (which we won't pick up until mid-June).

We definitely will not be adding payload to the truck when towing. We'll keep it all properly distributed and balanced in the trailer. That should keep us within all safety limits, and I'm hoping that the rig handles well enough. Most of our trips this first camping season will be within 25-50 miles of home, so I'm not unduly concerned, but if we go further afield and find the truck struggling on hills or higher elevations as WyEm described, we'll upgrade to a 3/4 ton truck.

From all I've seen and heard, the 5.4 Triton slaved to the 6 speed transmission is a pretty bulletproof towing setup if you take proper care of it and stay within all limits, even if she ends up grunting a bit on the hills. Here's hoping!
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Old 04-29-2016, 09:51 PM   #15
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BEST thing to do is weigh your tow vehicle. The true weight of it subtracted from your GVWR tells the whole story of what you can tow. Like MANY owners of 1/2 ton trucks, I was flabbergasted to see how much my truck weighed. More details here:

http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...ton-15074.html

IF you'll be towing in lower altitudes and flatter terrain, the 1/2 ton will do just fine. Should you start towing over mountain ranges, you'll likely find the 1/2 ton wanting. Your comfort zone when towing is important, no trip can be fun if you find the "getting there" a cause for anxiety!
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Old 04-30-2016, 08:22 AM   #16
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CAT Scales app is a breeze

When it comes to weighing, the CAT Scales app makes it painless. Download the app, set up an account with PayPal or a credit card, and then just drive to the scale.

When you're on the scale, just open the app, punch in the scale location (the number on the adjacent scale speaker box), press "enter" and the scale will weigh you, charge you, and send you an email with the attached weight ticket. No going inside to pay, just in and out!
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Old 04-30-2016, 10:45 AM   #17
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Axle weights and scales and blah, blah, blah. I'm so tired of reading these recommendations. They're so redundantly overblown on this and other forums. The basics of what you need to know are either somewhere on your tow vehicle or TT or in your vehicle's owner's manual. And guess what...when all is said and done, close enough is close enough for us weekend warrior campers. No, you won't be passing any vehicles going uphill with your combo and you won't be passing a lot of gas stations either. The revs are gonna run right up there too and she's gonna be thirsty. What are our other options?...3/4 ton, diesel? C'mon now...does anyone really believe you need more than a reasonably equipped 1/2 ton PU to pull a WH 27DSRL? Ignore the weight police and listen to actual owners of this same combo...there are several of us on here and we're all gonna tell you the same thing and that is "You'll be just fine". Just by asking the question, you've shown that you are aware enough to be prudent of your weights in general. The fact that you won't pull with full water helps you even more. Go. Hook on. Get out there. Have fun. And if you happen to come across a guy from Upstate NY in a blue 2010 1500 Sierra towing a WH 27DSRL in your travels, mosey on over and say hello.
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Old 04-30-2016, 12:50 PM   #18
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Axle weights and scales and blah, blah, blah. I'm so tired of reading these recommendations. They're so redundantly overblown on this and other forums........snip
SparkDr,

I found your JOF 'Signature' interesting; "May the Mods grant me the serenity to accept the opinions of those I cannot change,.....".

Bob
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Old 04-30-2016, 12:53 PM   #19
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"May the Mods grant me the serenity to accept the opinions of those I cannot change,.....".

Bob
Thanks for the reminder, Bob.

I got a big smile and a chuckle from your response!
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Old 04-30-2016, 01:08 PM   #20
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SparkDr,

I actually thought your 'JOF Signature' was pretty creative..., a little humor goes a long way!

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