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02-22-2013, 08:21 PM
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#21
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David472
Smiley,
Here is an attempt to answer your question about tire size…….you say you went from 17 inch rims to 18 inch rims. The important question is; what is the difference in overall diameter of the two sizes? My guess is, the stock 17 inch rims came with 70 series sidewall profile, and your new 18 inch rims have tires with a 60 series sidewall profile. In this example, the stock tires would have an overall diameter of 30.6 inches, yet the 60 series on 18 inch rims would have an overall diameter of 29.6 inches. For this example, the 18 inchers would actually improve your rear end ratio by a small amount. Have a look at your tire specs for overall diameter, before you worry too much about any reduced towing capacity because of that factor.
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So since they are 65s, I can go to the original tow capacity of 8200 lbs and GCVW of 14000. This would keep me with a much better buffer in the limits.
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02-22-2013, 08:26 PM
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#22
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle
Yes, allow about 70lbs against the TV's payload.
FYI, depending on the product rating the ship weight on a Reese Strait-Line WDH (with Dual Cam) is 70lbs to 90lbs.
Bob
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Thanks Bob. When it comes to the WDH $1000 sounds high to me. Should I look to get one on my own? If so any recommendations? I think I will need one no matter what trailer we end up with.
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02-22-2013, 08:46 PM
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#23
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiley
snip.....When it comes to the WDH $1000 sounds high to me. Should I look to get one on my own? If so any recommendations? I think I will need one no matter what trailer we end up with.
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Linda,
Yes, the 1K seems a little steep, even if it includes installation. For example, you can get a Reese Strait-Line 1,200/12,000 WDH with Dual Cam for around $500 off the internet. NOTE: The actual WDH weight size rating will be dependent on the potential loaded tongue weight conditions of the particular TT you are considering.
One source for Reese WDH products is: http://tweetys.com/stright-line-trun...hitch-kit.aspx
Please note: You will be towing off the RV dealer's lot under "unloaded" TV/TT conditions, the WDH will have to be re-adjusted under loaded TV/TT conditions.
Bob
__________________
2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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02-22-2013, 09:12 PM
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#24
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 27
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Yes, the 1K seems a little steep, even if it includes installation. For example, you can get a Reese Strait-Line 1,200/12,000 WDH with Dual Cam for around $500 off the internet. NOTE: The actual WDH weight size rating will be depended on the potentinal loaded tongue weight conditions of the particular TT you are considering.
Thanks Bob. I will look at that. $500 saved is a few tanks of gas!
Please note: You will be towing off the RV dealer's lot under "unloaded" TV/TT conditions, the WDH will have to be re-adjusted under loaded TV/TT conditions.
Bob[/QUOTE]
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02-22-2013, 11:23 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 1,393
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Smiley,
A tire size of 275-65-18 has an overall diameter of 32.2 inches.
Often the base tire size would be 245-70-17 for a diameter of 30.6 inches. Sometimes the truck will come from the factory with an optional 265-70-17 for a diameter of 31.7 inches. From this info, the optional tire diameter from the factory is about 3.5 percent more than the base size. The truck's published GCWR will take into consideration the tire size range available from the factory.
My original example made the assumption that the first number of the tire size didn't change with your new tires. I should have been more thorough in my example.
The numbers in tire sizes have particular meaning. For example with your new tires, the 275 number is the width in millimeters (about 10.8 inches), and the 65 means the sidewall height is 65 percent of the width. This makes it wider than a 245 or a 265, and 65 percent of that 275 width makes the overall diameter slightly more.
I am assuming the base tire size is 245-70-17. Have a look at the sticker on the inside edge of the driver door, to see the tire size the truck was shipped from the factory with. The driver door sticker will tell you this OEM size.
A larger overall diameter is not favorable for your rear end ratio, although it looks like you are only about 1.5 percent larger than what I assume to be the factory size range. Again, have a look at the driver door to confirm the factory size.
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle 31.5RLDS
2018 Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
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02-23-2013, 09:42 AM
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#26
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 27
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[QUOTE=David472;118503]Smiley,
A tire size of 275-65-18 has an overall diameter of 32.2 inches.
Here is a comparision chart with my info:
Stock Tire - 255/70R17 Search Tires Tire 1 - 275/65R18 Search Tires
Section Width: 10.03 in 255 mm
Section Width: 10.82 in 275 mm
Rim Diameter: 17 in 431.8 mm
Rim Diameter: 18 in 457.2 mm
Rim Width Range: 6.5 - 8.5 in
Rim Width Range: 7.5 - 9.5 in
Overall Diameter: 31.05 in 788.67 mm
Overall Diameter: 32.07 in 814.57 mm
Sidewall Height: 7.02 in 178.30 mm
Sidewall Height: 7.03 in 178.56 mm
Radius: 15.52 in 394.20 mm
Radius: 16.03 in 407.16 mm
Circumference: 97.54 in 2477.5 mm
Circumference: 100.7 in 2557.7 mm
Revs per Mile: 669.8
Revs per Mile: 648.5
Actual Speed: 60 mph 100 km/h
Speedometer1: 58.0 mph 96.8 km/h
Speedometer Difference: - Speedometer Difference: 3.284% too slow
Diameter Difference: - Diameter Difference: 3.19%
So according to this the dealer should have never used this size tire on the truck as it affects braking. Might look good but I forsee problems down the road. They changed the tires and said they would put back the original size tires on them if we like. Should I go this route? Thanks again for all your time and help. I really don't think I would want to stray from a Jayco because of the the wonderful support and knowledge of its users. You guys are the ones who really make the Jayco name stand out!!
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02-23-2013, 10:27 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 1,393
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Smiley,
If you have the option of going back to your original tire size which came from the factory, you will be happier when it comes to towing a TT. Just my 2 cents worth.
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle 31.5RLDS
2018 Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
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02-23-2013, 10:53 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Boston
Posts: 664
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Smiley... you may want to consider a suspension kit such as http://www.activesuspension.com. Being close to your F150 limits, this might give you a little more comfort. I'm in the same boat as you except my TT has been ordered. I think you and I will be just fine towing, but will have to take it easy on steep incline/decline's. I'm do not expect to be speed racer when towing my TT, but do not think that our f150's or myself as the operator will have any troubles. I am ordering the above mentioned suspension kit and plan on putting it on myself. I've done the research on it and spoke to be Ford dealer about towing and they mentioned this same kit that I was already researching. Good luck and just take it easy out there on the road! Jay
__________________
2013 White Hawk 28 DSBH
2011 Jay Feather X23J (traded-in)
2011 Ford F-150 XLT w/towing package
RoadMaster Active Suspension
Reese Trunnion Bar WDH w/Dual Cam sway control
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02-25-2013, 09:30 AM
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#29
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 27
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Ok so my game plan is to go to the dealer and hook up the trailer. I know it will not have my WDH on it yet and will be dry but want to see how it feels. I want to then take both to the CAT scale to see what GCVW it at this point and get tongue weight. The Rv dealer is about 1/2 mile from house and the CAT scale is less then a mile from there. Am I crazy to even do this?
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02-25-2013, 10:07 AM
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#30
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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Linda,
Going to the CAT scale under your TV/TT "unloaded" condition isn't really going to give you any real usable weight data. Also, the TT's tongue weight (based on the actual Ship Weight) may exceed your TV's receiver "weight carrying" mode weight limit and towing any distance under this condition I wouldn't recommended (without a WDH) ...., that's just me.
As mentioned in an earlier post, taking your TV to the CAT scale ahead of time under simulated "going camping" loaded conditions will give you some real usable weight data (ie; amount of payload weight remaining).
Bob
__________________
2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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02-25-2013, 10:52 AM
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#31
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 27
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Ok I'll scrap that idea. Any way to tell tongue weight of TT before purchasing or just use the formula?
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02-25-2013, 02:03 PM
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#32
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiley
snip....... Any way to tell tongue weight of TT before purchasing or just use the formula?
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Linda,
Here are two ways ..........,
* Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scale, dealer might have one: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...e+weight+scale
* Bathroom scale method: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...bathroom+scale
Bob
__________________
2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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03-02-2013, 10:45 AM
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#33
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 27
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I asked the dealer to weight the tongue weight before they moved it (scale it at first location). They have two locations and they were bringing the trailer to the one down the street from us. He calls me and tells me that the tongue weight without the propane and battery is 590lbs. Can I beleive him? That is the exact number published in the brochure with a dry weight of 5290 and the yellow sticker on the TT is 5839. Shouldn't the tounge weight be higher if the weight is increased?[/COLOR]
Linda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle
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03-02-2013, 10:51 AM
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#34
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Cape Coral, Florida
Posts: 4,792
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I would suspect he used the numbers out of the broshure.
As you add cargo, propane, battery the tongue weight will increase.
Maybe best way is to take the GVWR for the TT and multiply 15%. That should give you your max tongue weight under max load allowed.
Best regards,
Doug
__________________
Cape Coral, Florida
2021 Toyota Tundra SR5, 5.7 V8
2022 Jayco 240RBS
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03-02-2013, 11:28 AM
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#35
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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Linda,
Quote:
Originally Posted by smiley
snip...... He calls me and tells me that the tongue weight without the propane and battery is 590lbs. Can I beleive him? ....snip
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Even "if" the dealer weighed the TT tongue, what good is the weight value to you without LP & battery?
Quote:
Originally Posted by smiley
snip...... the yellow sticker on the TT is 5839. Shouldn't the tounge weight be higher if the weight is increased?
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Not necessarily, it depends on where Jayco added the weight (weight delta between UVW & Ship Weight) within the TT.
Bob
__________________
2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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03-02-2013, 11:52 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 1,393
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One approach you might try, is ask the dealer to weigh it while you watch the result. Seeing is believing.
And to Rustic Eagle's point, you might ask the dealer to have the propane full and battery installed for this weight measurement. This might be too much to ask, and the dealer may complain, but it would be more useful for you.
One thing that puzzles me, is my yellow sticker from Jayco says the total ship weight includes full propane tanks. Others on this forum have said otherwise. Beats me as to why.
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle 31.5RLDS
2018 Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
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03-02-2013, 12:18 PM
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#37
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 27
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I was told that the yellow sticker weight is including full propane, they weigh it and then put the empty tanks on for shipping.
One thing that puzzles me, is my yellow sticker from Jayco says the total ship weight includes full propane tanks. Others on this forum have said otherwise. Beats me as to why.[/QUOTE]
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03-02-2013, 01:32 PM
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#38
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia`s Eastern Shore
Posts: 17,091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiley
I was told that the yellow sticker weight is including full propane, they weigh it and then put the empty tanks on for shipping.
One thing that puzzles me, is my yellow sticker from Jayco says the total ship weight includes full propane tanks. Others on this forum have said otherwise. Beats me as to why.
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[/QUOTE]
The weight on the yellow sticker DOES account for the weight of full propane tanks. But the tanks are shipped empty, so I`m assuming Jayco simply places the weight equal to the weight of the propane on the tongue when weighing the trailer, or calibrates the scales accordingly.
Now the weight you read about on the webpage or brochures will not include propane or options which is why the sticker weight is always more then the published weight.
__________________
2017 Coachmen Catalina 283RKS
2018 Ford F250 Super Duty 6.2l CCSB
2010 Jayflight 28BHS (sold)
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03-02-2013, 02:07 PM
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#39
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabman
snip..... The weight on the yellow sticker DOES account for the weight of full propane tanks..
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X2
The result of a relatively new RV Industry standard that all RV's are to have an actual factory "Ship Weight" sticker inclusive of full LP tank(s) weight (representative of). The main intent was to identify the actual "CCC" weight as it departed the factory, which is also less than the published CCC.
Battery weights and added dealer options can very depending on what the RV dealer provides, thus it's not included in the "Ship Weight" from Jayco. The new RV Industry standard also requires the RV dealer to attach a revised sticker if they add more than 100lbs to the TT, thus representing the revised CCC weight value (decrease of).
Bob
__________________
2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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