Towing woes

[Campinken]

All good advice. Yes the hitch is rated for 1200 tongue and 12k trailer weight. I'll check the tires, that could be a big factor. I know the PSI rating is 45 lbs but you're suggesting I over inflate them on towing days? Trailer tires say 75 cold and last I looked they were at 70 sitting in the sun.

I am new to travel trailers but have hauled 21' boats, large enclosed utility trailers loaded down with sound equipment, and our old pop-up. I'm not new to towing, I'm new to towing this box. My basement is in the front under the bed. The only weight behind the trailer tandem is the bathroom and the rear BH with it's slider. I can't remove any of that stuff. I've got a few things in the tool crib in the back but not a lot of weight. My kids are small and we pack really lite in clothes. No Tele in the BH or nothing. Just bedding and clothes. The fridge is loaded but it's right over the axle. The majority of the trailer and weight is in front of the axle so I feel it's packed well.

That's good to know about the Wd setup. It looks to me to be slightly higher than level at the hitch when I'm on the second chain link. Even if I don't put the WD on, the airbags in the back bring the TT to almost level.
Safety for my family is my #1 priority and that's why I want to figure this out. I know my truck is at it's max but the fact is with 3 kids a big pickup is out of the question. I'm not making excuses, I'm just shooting at it straight. There is a lot written here that could help and I will try, so I appreciate your advice. I posted here because I've been reading your threads for 3 months now and I knew this was the place for answers. I think I need to really spend some time on the WD hitch and add that other sway. If you say that every once in awhile it's going to move a bit then that helps. It's not flying around behind me, but it is unsettling when the wheel turns in your hand. I do have mirror extensions so I know when some giant semi is going to blow by me. My favorite is when someone is flying down the on-ramp on my right when I got a semi on the left. That's when I really need a change of shorts.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Campinken

snip......I'm not going to pretend my tow capacity and trailer weight aren't close......snip

Ken,

If you really want to know where you stand with your TV/TT combination's weights and eliminate all the guess work, plus confirm if your WDH is sized/adjusted correctly, you have to go to a CAT scale and preform a complete 3-pass weigh-in. Here is a TV/TT "how to" at the CAT scale: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...igh-Your-tt-tv

Until you actually know how much weight your WDH is actually distributing, and where..., just adding/deleting a WDH chain link position by guessing could create more issues then resolve. If a TV's receiver is under rated for the TT's loaded weights it won't distribute enough weight properlly..... no matter how much force is applied to the receiver via the WDH.

Based on the info provided thus far..., IMO the Expedition just isn't a good match for the 32BHDS under loaded conditions, even with the proper TV receiver hitch and rated WDH. At 9,000lbs a loaded 35ft long TT should have a loaded tongue weight of 1,170lbs to 1,350lbs for effective TV handling (13% to 15% of TT loaded weight), which is subtracted from the TV's payload capacity.

Also, be careful when hearing/reading about adding/deleting a WDH chain link position, because not everybody speaks from the same reference point. Some folks reference chain links "hanging" and others chain links "under tension".... but don't clarify...., chain links "under tension" is the best way and correlates to all WDH manufacture installation instructions.

Hope this helps.

Bob

[cekkk]

We are on our 4th Expy, and IMO you are not going to arrive refreshed at the end of the day. You are right to be concerned That 37' tail can do a lot of wagging if anything at all goes awry. Go slower than you might like and drive ahead so as to avoid as much as possible needing to make sudden adjustments.

I didn't read every reply, so don't know if you have a good brake controller. You need a lot of whoa power to come to a stop. Good luck.

[Plowtoy]

I may be guilty of not readind word for word of every responce so forgive me if someone already said this. Dadof4girls I think came the closest. TIRES...TIRES...TIRES... Yes the Expidition is a bit short for a trailer of that size, but by the sounds of it, the OP is running P series tires on the TV. I would suggest to go with a LT load range E (or 10 ply) tire that can be set to 80psi safely. Is it over kill when not towing, yep but you could also set the tires back down to the vehicle manufacutres recomendation when not towing. Also, the heavier side walls of the 10 ply tires will help reduce sway some as they wont flex as much, especially when fully inflated.

[Campinken]

I called the installer, he pulled my TV, TT and WDH file and he suggested i go up another notch on my WD chains, add the other sway bar and to not go above psi stamped on the tires. He agreed that with the wheelbase of the expedition there's going to be some movement at high speeds and that I am at the end of my TV to TT towing capacity but I am in the safety ratings of all involved. Wasn't trying to discredit any of the above advice, just getting all my data collected so I thought I'd share.

[Bassdogs]

Sounds like you've gotten all the input we and others can give. Last comment from here would be in reference to your situation of getting pinched between a rig merging from an on ramp with an 18 wheeler on your left. Best advice is 1] don't get in that situation by anticipating all on ramps and slowing down to avoid getting squeezed. 2] Don't get bullied, control your speed and HOLD YOUR GROUND. Its the merging driver who has to avoid you. Stay in the Right hand lane and they can speed to get in ahead of you or slow to merge in behind you. Make your decision early and like I said hold your ground.

As a habit I don't like to drive with a big rig on either side. Sure it happens, but I avoid when possible. If one pulls next to me on the left, I will slow and let him pass. If I am approaching one to my right, I control the situation and time my pass when I have plenty of room. Another trick is to avoid rush hour when multi lanes are filled with cars going every which way.

Good luck and safe traveling.

[cekkk]

Bassdogs advice is probably better than mine, but given the room, I will move to the left lane when someone is showing the slightest hesitation as to when and at what speed to merge. Having driven interstates for 50 years, I trust every driver to do the wrong thing! That, to me, is part of driving ahead.

And why does the OP have P tires? Those Expeditions come with LTs, usually 17 or 18" depending on the model. DW's KR came with 18s. No place for Ps IMHO.

[Campinken]

Originally Posted by cekkk

And why does the OP have P tires? Those Expeditions come with LTs, usually 17 or 18" depending on the model. DW's KR came with 18s. No place for Ps IMHO.

I have no idea what this means.

[Crabman]

Originally Posted by Campinken

I have no idea what this means.

"P" tires are passenger tires, usually inflated no more then 45lbs max and have a very limited load range. "LT" or light truck tires can be inflated to as much as 80lbs, are rated much higher in load range, have stiffer sidewalls, and are much more capable and will likely produce better towing results when towing high tongue weight trailers.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Campinken

I called the installer, he pulled my TV, TT and WDH file and he suggested i go up another notch on my WD chains,.....snip

Ken,

I'm sure your installer also mentioned not to have less then 5-chain links under tension when making the "up another notch" adjustment.., otherwise proper spring bar movement during TV turns could be compromised (spring bar tail binding at TT A-frame).

Bob

[Plowtoy]

Originally Posted by Campinken

I have no idea what this means.

P series tires are Passenger car tires. I don't know if Expidition's came with them or not, but it is possible that if you have replaced the OE tires and they were LT, you could have been sold P series not knowing the differance because they are typiclly less expensive. Each tire is rated to carry X number pounds (p series), so for example, if your expiditon weighed 6000 lbs, you would need each tire to carry 1500 lbs. That being said LT tires have more ply's (layers of rubber and steel belts) than passenger car tires because they are expected to and can carry more weight.
I assumed you have either LT load range C tires on your expidition or Passenger tires because many times the maximum tire pressure for those are 44-45 PSI. I would still suggest a load range E tire which is rated to hold 80psi safely and also help carry the load when you are towing.
To figure out what tires you have, look at the side wall of the tire. If the tire size is P---/--R-- (R means radial) you have passenger car tires. If the tire size is LT---/--R-- they are light truck tires. If they are LT tires you will also find stamped on the tire a load range C, D, or E. Most 3/4 and 1 ton pick up come with load range E tires from the factory because of what they are expected to do. I hope this helps, Dave

[Campinken]

right. All the P Op TV TT IMO LT WDH starts making me cross eyed after a while. Yes they are P series 275/55R20. 2403 lbs per tire. Thanks

[cekkk]

And why does the OP have P tires? Those Expeditions come with LTs, usually 17 or 18" depending on the model. DW's KR came with 18s.

Originally Posted by Campinken

I have no idea what this means.

OP is the original poster. P tires are a metric designation, usually don't belong on half ton trucks. They were probably replacements.
LT tires are Light Truck tires, which every Expedition I've ever seen came with. The 17 or 18 refers to the rim diameter, as in 235/75-17.
DW is dear wife.
KR. Poster said he has a King Ranch. We do, too, and refer to it that way. Most would not. I should not have used that one.

But I was on a roll!

[clubhouse]

Ken,

I echo Rustic Eagle -- Without getting actual weights you may as well do nothing at all.

Without it you can't reasonably make any judgment as to if your WD Hitch is adjusted correctly, if you are within vehicle weight limits, if your tires have sufficient load capacity, and general if you have safe TV/TT combination. Right now it's like asking how long till we get there, but have no idea where there is. If you can't take the ~$20 and small amount of time it takes to get the weights, then everyone here is wasting their time trying to help. Do yourself and your family a favor -- load everyone up, simulate a camping trip, hitch up and head to the scale. From there you will get quality advice and great personal knowledge.

[clubhouse]

By the way, I understand the reluctance to transition to a pickup. I too have 3 kids, all in car seats/booster seats still, and we made the move to a crew cab pu. There is plenty of room for all of us, including 3 across car seats. The only one who may have a complaint is our boxer who is now riding in a crate in the back. The upside of having a place to haul firewood, extra fuel, generator etc not inside the TT or SUV is really great too.

If you already mentioned it I missed it, is your Expedition the EL or standard length?

[Flyrotor]

Reading all the posts, I hear "it's the hitch", It's the tires", "too much tongue weight", "not enough tongue weight"

Bottom line is... that trailer should not be towed by a half ton, it's even too big for a lot of the 3/4 ton trucks,

the combination of the weight and the length is the problem, you need maximum tow capacity, maximum payload capacity and maximum wheel base that you can get in a pickup truck to safely pull that load....

[Threebutchers]

Originally Posted by Flyrotor

Bottom line is... that trailer should not be towed by a half ton, it's even too big for a lot of the 3/4 ton trucks,

the combination of the weight and the length is the problem, you need maximum tow capacity, maximum payload capacity and maximum wheel base that you can get in a pickup truck to safely pull that load....

X2

[Huntsvillian]

Originally Posted by Flyrotor

Reading all the posts, I hear "it's the hitch", It's the tires", "too much tongue weight", "not enough tongue weight"

Bottom line is... that trailer should not be towed by a half ton, it's even too big for a lot of the 3/4 ton trucks,

the combination of the weight and the length is the problem, you need maximum tow capacity, maximum payload capacity and maximum wheel base that you can get in a pickup truck to safely pull that load....

X3

[amabee]

Originally Posted by Flyrotor

Reading all the posts, I hear "it's the hitch", It's the tires", "too much tongue weight", "not enough tongue weight"

Bottom line is... that trailer should not be towed by a half ton, it's even too big for a lot of the 3/4 ton trucks,

the combination of the weight and the length is the problem, you need maximum tow capacity, maximum payload capacity and maximum wheel base that you can get in a pickup truck to safely pull that load....

X4

[rotjovi2269]

Originally Posted by Threebutchers

X2

X4 Sorry, but you are risking the safety of your family and others with that tow vehicle.