WDH vs. Shocks

[sheehast]

I bought a 2008 Jayco X23B last August, and I drive a 2008 Dodge Ram 1500. When I bought the camper the salesman said a WDH really isn't needed unless the back end of the towing truck drops more than 4 inches. My truck dropped about 3, so he didn't suggest I get a WDH. It seems to me that if anybody is going to tell somebody that they need something, it would be a salesman so they could make an additional sale.

So, what is the best way to determine if one is needed? It seems that some people seem that it's a forgone conclusion that if you have a camper, that you need a WDH. Which seems like it's simply assuming that one is needed without legit reasons why.

Also, it seems like heavy duty shocks may keep the back end of the tow vehicle up at the proper height anyway. So wouldn't that take care of the need for WDH?

I'm going to get a sway bar, but if I'm buying the sway bar, and I actually need a WDH than it makes more sense to buy as a package deal.

Please let me know your thoughts and what makes sense.

[Rustic Eagle]

The amount of TV rear end squat isn't the important factor, what you should be looking at is if any weight was removed from the front suspension of the TV (or front rise) when the TT tongue was placed on the hitch ball.

My BIL had a 2006 23B and his loaded tongue weight was 650lbs, he used a WDH rated at 800lbs..... worked great.

If you really want to know what's going on with your particular TV/TT combination (weights, confirm WDH size/adjustment, etc.), I would visit a CAT scale. The following JOF link will walk you through the process:

http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...igh-Your-tt-tv

Hope this helps.

Bob

[LiftedAWDAstro]

Originally Posted by sheehast

Also, it seems like heavy duty shocks may keep the back end of the tow vehicle up at the proper height anyway. So wouldn't that take care of the need for WDH?

Actually shocks will not do anything to raise the rear. They simply dampen the bouncing. You would need air bags, add-a-leafs or Timbrens to raise the rear when loaded.

[sheehast]

Originally Posted by LiftedAWDAstro

Actually shocks will not do anything to raise the rear. They simply dampen the bouncing. You would need air bags, add-a-leafs or Timbrens to raise the rear when loaded.

I'm not saying it will raise the rear, but wouldn't better shocks reduce or eliminate drop in the rear?

[jenoble99]

I would also look at the capacity of your hitch in "weight carrying" mode, with no WDH. I would ensure you aren't exceeding that rating.

[Spike99]

With NO trailer connected, load up the rear of your vehicle and drive around. Does the rear of your vehicle feel like mush? re: Too soft. If yes, get HD shocks installed in the rear of your Vehicle. Remember that shocks don't lift a vehicle. They only reduce the speed of up/down movement (when going over deep bumps). Many folks sometimes call it a "bounce test". If bounced more than 2 times, then replace shocks. And if replacing, replace with better then factory grade shocks.

With loaded vehicle (as if going on a camping trip) WITH trailer connected, drive around. Does the rear suspension of your tow vehicle feel like mush? re: "2 bounce test" thing. If yes, then install HD shocks. Do keep in mind that if upgrading with HD shocks (like HD Bilstein @ http://cart.bilsteinus.com/ ), the "loaded down" feeling will feel much firmer. But, it might feel "too firm" during empty load. Thus, don't over buy HD shocks for your vehicle. Sometimes, too HD rating replacement isn't good. Especially if daily ride - that runs empty most of the time.

With NO trailer connected with vehicle's rear loaded (as if going on a camping trip) and vehicle's rear sags down too much, simply install Timbren SES units. They are like air bags without compressed air inside them. Thus, no worry about air leaks. Simply install and leave them. Or if you prefer air bags, then install air bags (which are adjustable) instead. Timbren and/or Air bags are made to reduce vehicle's rear sag when NO trailer is connected. Timbren SES units or Air bags are made for Vehicle.

With trailer connected and rear of vehicle goes down too much, I would install a WDH - with properly sized bars. A WDH System does more then reduce vehicle's rear sag. It also transfer some of the trailer's tongue weight to the Tow Vehicle's front wheels. Not much weight transfer but on slippery roads, every little bit counts. WDH System is make for Trailer's tongue weight.

If wondering, I installed Timbren SES units under my previous vehicle and my current vehicle. When loaded down and NO trailer connected, they work great. Especially since both of my vehicles have factory "soft suspensions". And, they also work great when trailer without WDH system (like my utility and boat trailer) are connected as well. But for my heavy tongue weight RV/TT, I always use a WDH System (with properly sized bars). Both do work together - if adjusted properly.

Long mumblings short... You may need to install HD shocks (to eliminate compression speed), you may need to install Timbren SES or Air bags (for Vehicle rear support) and you may also need to install WDH System (to support RV/TT's heavy tongue weight). I installed all 3 upgrades in my previous Vehicle and it was money well spent...

Note: For your Dodge 150 (with soft factory suspension) and 23ft TT, I would buy/install a WDH system (with properly sized bars). I might even install Timbren SES units if vehicle had too much sag with NO trailer connected. And, I'd do the "2 bounce test" to determine if new / replacement shocks are needed.

Hope this helps...

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by sheehast

snip....... but wouldn't better shocks reduce or eliminate drop in the rear?

A better (Premium, HD, etc.) shock will have very little, if any, influence on controlling rear TV squat when placed under load, especially the effect of your HTT tongue weight.

A WDH when adjusted properly will however minimize rear TV squat. The WDH's main design function is to "return" the weight that was removed from the TV's front suspension do to the effect of the HTT tongue weight being placed over the TV's hitch ball. The HTT tongue weight placed on the hitch ball remains fairly constant.., but the WDH will remove some of the added weight off the TV's rear axle and transfer (return) the proper weight back to the TV's front suspension........., thus the removal of weight off the TV's rear axle in concert with the WDH's supporting charactoristics reduces the amount of rear TV squat. The WDH will also transfer some weight (from TV rear axle) to the HTT's axles.

Your thought of getting a sway bar and WDH as a package deal has merit, based on your described TV conditions. As Spike99 mentioned, if you find that your existing shocks are worn, a new set will enhance your towing experince.

Bob

[clutch]

A WDH will take weight off the rear tires, add weight to the steering wheels and the trailer wheels. It will also help reduce sway and push when you meet the big trucks.

[clutch]

The shocks don't hold your truck up, the springs do. The shocks just controll the wheels so they don't bounce when you hit bumps.

[Pitch1]

Originally Posted by jenoble99

I would also look at the capacity of your hitch in "weight carrying" mode, with no WDH. I would ensure you aren't exceeding that rating.

This is the correct answer. When new whether OEM or after market your hitch had two weight ratings,(not to exceed) on a sticker or possibly stamped into the hitch itself.
Most OEM hitches are rated at about six hundred pounds. WDH rating is much higher.
I towed my 23b on the ball about ten miles to my fathers place, never again. The WDH creates a much stiffer unit and except in extreme conditions the bounce is gone and what is left is damped by the whole length of the truck.

[Crabman]

My recommendation is to go with a WD hitch and sway control. You will have a much better towing experience. Some new shocks such as Bilsteins could also enhance the ride and stop the "porposing" or bouncing, but as said do nothing to stop the rear from squatting.

[sheehast]

Originally Posted by clutch

The shocks don't hold your truck up, the springs do. The shocks just controll the wheels so they don't bounce when you hit bumps.

Right, however Monroe is making a shock with a spring to keep height up to 1200 lbs.

http://catalog.monroe.com/catalogPar...dStatus=ACTIVE

So we're going to keep the end up and the front down with this right?

[sheehast]

Originally Posted by Pitch1

This is the correct answer. When new whether OEM or after market your hitch had two weight ratings,(not to exceed) on a sticker or possibly stamped into the hitch itself.
Most OEM hitches are rated at about six hundred pounds. WDH rating is much higher.
I towed my 23b on the ball about ten miles to my fathers place, never again. The WDH creates a much stiffer unit and except in extreme conditions the bounce is gone and what is left is damped by the whole length of the truck.

I'm not exceeding the capacity, so what are your thoughts on the necessity of the WDH? I took the camper on 3 trips last year without a WDH. Each trip was around 120 miles, I've decided that a sway bar is needed, but again if the back end isn't dropping, do i really need a WDH?

[OnTheGo]

IMO, Rustic Eagle is a towing expert and a valuable resource in this forum. If you take the advice he offers in this thread, you will have a correct setup. He has been offering this advice to anyone who "doesn't/didn't know" for some time. Many of us including myself have followed his lead and had excellent towing experiences.

Your TV was designed and built to function safely. When you put a trailer on the hitch and load the rear with cargo, you change the characteristics that were built into it. Basically, weight that affects steering. A WDH redistributes that weight so the TV can return to its designed capabilities. The amount of rear-end-squat is not important.

Your TT was designed to be towed level. With the proper application and necessary adjustments of the WDH, your TV and TT will function as intended and you will be comfortable while towing.

[eldermike]

If you have the OE shocks on a 2008 you may need new shocks. However, shocks, springs or air bags do nothing to replace the function of a WDH. You can tow without a WDH until you tow with one, once tried you will not do it again.

[Spike99]

> do i really need a WDH?

For your Dodge 150 (with soft factory suspension) towing a 23ft TT, I would get a WDH System with properly sized spring bars. And, get sway bar for it as well. Money well spend.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by sheehast

snip........ but again if the back end isn't dropping, do i really need a WDH?

Only a CAT scale can answer your question..., and the results will be based on "your" specific TV/HTT combination and loading habits. The fact that the TV back end isn't dropping doesn't mean that weight hasn't been removed from the front suspension

Bob

[msturtz]

The receiver on the TV should be labeled with the dead weight rating and with the weight distributing rating.

[clutch]

I have a set of the Monroe shocks with springs on my Ford Ranger. The ride is really rough and bumpy without a load in the truck.

[sheehast]

Rustic Eagle-I see you know what you're talking about. I guess part of this inquiry is to determine whether or not the WDH hitch is needed? Or, maybe there are other things that can simply, help towing...Part of my inquiry is also due to the fact that a salesman, prep person, & mechanic, all at the dealership, didn't try to sell me a WDH. I would also say that the dealership had WDH's on site, and i specifically inquired if one would be needed, none of the 3 people at that dealer thought it was necessary. So I feel like simply saying to "Get a WDH" isn't thinking about the need or thinking about the point and result in the purchase. I wouldn't call the 500-1000 purchase of a WDH worth it, if it's not needed.

I think a sway bar seems to make a ton of sense. That is something I've noticed (sway) and would like to eliminate.

I'm not saying buying a new set of shocks is going to equal out to what a WDH will do. But if I don't need the WDH in the first place, maybe some tweaks to the suspension could help add to towing. Does that make some sense at least?

Also, have you ever heard of a WDH by Andersen? It uses chain instead of bars. It also uses the weight of the TT as sway control. Seems like a pretty smart way of doing things as well, have you seen this? And what are your thoughts on this?