WH 28dsbh with F150

[nosnhojm]

Currently have a 2017 F150 EcoBoost with a tow rating of 11,700 lbs; however, the max payload (per the yellow door jam sticker) is 1552 lbs. We are looking at purchasing a 2016 28dsbh, which has a dry weight of 6020, gross weight of 7500, and a dry hitch of 655.

My concern is the payload capacity of my truck. If I estimate 13% of a typical loaded trailer (let's say 7000 lbs), that would put the tongue weight at 910 lbs. Truck passengers ~= 600 lbs. Plus the weight of the hitch, gas, tonneau cover, etc.

Does anyone else pull with this combo? Does the WDH provide any additional buffer?

[oldnnew]

You're gonna be close on your payload. My '01 F-150 has almost 200 lbs. more payload than yours and I'm going to be kissing my limits with our soon to be 28DSBH. I would say you should be ok if you pack the truck light and make sure you upgrade the tires to LT load range E tires. As far as pulling power you should be fine with just about any powertrain in that truck. My old 5.4 with a whole whopping 260 hp and 355 tq does it. I think Ford's v-6 makes more than that now. 😝 I wouldn't be doing cross country trips with that setup, but local trips (<400 miles) should be fine.

[nosnhojm]

Apparently that 1552 I quoted is from the tire and load rating label. If I look at my GVWR (7050) and the base curb weight (4937), the delta would make me think the payload rating is actually 2113 lbs. Am I thinking about that correctly?

If so, does changing to E load tires allow me to get past that 1552 tire and loading limit?

[Khans Keeper]

Originally Posted by nosnhojm

Apparently that 1552 I quoted is from the tire and load rating label. If I look at my GVWR (7050) and the base curb weight (4937), the delta would make me think the payload rating is actually 2113 lbs. Am I thinking about that correctly?

If so, does changing to E load tires allow me to get past that 1552 tire and loading limit?

I am by no means an expert, but I don't think you should use the generic weight listings online. The listed curb weight can not account for the specific configuration of your truck. Your yellow sticker lists your true payload. The payload ford listed on that sticker was determined by subtracting the ACTUAL curb weight of your truck (with all included options as it left the factory) from the GVWR of 7050. E rated tires will not increase the payload of your truck, however they may improve the tow experience by eliminating tire sidewall flex which can cause sway.

[need-a-vacation]

Guessing you probably have a growing kid or two since you are looking at a bh model. As they grow, the family weight will get higher also. Tonneau covers don't weigh much unless it's a fiberglass model, but either way easily removed if needed.

Can you possible do it, yes, but you will have to pack very carefully and limit what you take on trips. And don't consider filling the front pass through storage if it has one, or possibly hauling water if the tank is in front of the axles (maybe enough to use the toilet: ~5-10gals maybe). The weight pretty much goes straight to your hitch!!! Sorry couldn't resist!!! Lol Something to think about is Ford is known (maybe changed for '17, don't know) for having the total of the axle rating barely be higher than the gvwr of the truck. GM (maybe dodge/ram also) is(was) known for having the total axle rating be upward of almost 1000lbs higher than the gvwr (at least the last I knew, maybe GM has changed also!!!). So some people wouldn't worry if they were slightly over the gvwr, as long as they were under the axles rating. Only you can decide what is best for you and your family. I know with our '10 Chevy 1500 we were about 200lbs over the gvwr but only 50lbs under the rar. Didn't like that and talked my wife into a 2500Hd, which resulted in a bigger trailer....lol

If you really like this model, how long would it be before you could upgrade the truck to one with more payload? Another 150 with the heavy duty payload package or maybe a 250?

And as mentioned, the door jamb sticker is for YOUR truck as it rolled off the assembly line. Not the generic "brochure" listed weight.

Good luck!!!

[hboy]

The online payload numbers are typically the "max" available payload for a certain configuration. If you have 4wd, that takes away payload. If you have a crew cab, that consumes payload. Ect.

The sticker on the door is what you want to focus on.

I had a eco boost with about the same tow rating and payload per the door sticker. I had about the same trailer as well. When pulling with this combo, the engine pulls the trailer very very well. Never had any power problems.

The payload was the limiting factor. When loaded with family of 5 in the truck, we were overweight. The trailer hitch weight was in the 1000lb range with battery, full propane, little fresh water and normal trailer cargo.

In general towing (regardless of the number of passengers in the truck), highway towing was the worst. Power is always good. The trailer is long and tall. The geometry of the bumper pull is not great for short wheel base tow vehicle. I was pushed/pulled a lot on the highway by passing trucks. A longer wheel base is better. A 3/4 ton is better.

I towed around the state with the F150. It's definitely doable. Highway driving will be the toughest. I used road master active suspension to try and help. I noticed no real difference. My next step was going to be change to LT truck tires, and add air bags. We changed vehicles before doing this. If you proceed with that trailer and do not like the highway driving and you plan on doing a lot of highway driving, I think the LT tires would be a good upgrade.

[bono]

I am towing 28DSBH with a short wheelbase TV. I use ProPride hitch, maybe therefore, the towing is comfortable, no white knuckles. I towed this trailer from Indiana to California. Rockies, Tahoe, semis, strong cross winds... no problem.

Good luck!

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by nosnhojm

Apparently that 1552 I quoted is from the tire and load rating label. If I look at my GVWR (7050) and the base curb weight (4937), the delta would make me think the payload rating is actually 2113 lbs. Am I thinking about that correctly?

If so, does changing to E load tires allow me to get past that 1552 tire and loading limit?

I don't think so. While upgrading to heavier load range tires can improve handling and reduce sway, they actually add weight to the truck. They won't change loading limits.

I tow a 2017 White Hawk with a 2010 Ford F-150, 5.4L V8 Triton, 3.73 axle ratio, rated to tow 11,200. My yellow sticker payload capacity is 1,727, but that's not a useful number. Forget "base" curb weight too, another number that's not really useful. My truck's actual curb weight (with a full 36 gal gas tank and all installed options, no other cargo or passengers) is 6,020 lbs. The GVWR is 7,675, so my ACTUAL cargo capacity is 1,655. After adding 450 lbs in passengers, that leaves me 1,205 for tongue weight and all other cargo.

As equipped, my White Hawk's dry tongue weight (no propane) is 680 lbs. With the trailer loaded for travel (7,218 lbs), the tongue weighs...get ready for it...1,098 lbs. That puts me within 110 lbs of the truck's cargo limit and 20 lbs of the hitch's limit. If I throw a generator or extra fuel or water in the truck bed I'm immediately maxed out.

Why so much tongue weight, you ask? Because in addition to the added weight from 800 lbs of onboard cargo, the front of the trailer carries two 20lb propane tanks (75 lbs), a 100 amp hour AGM battery (62 lbs), and a WD/sway control hitch (55 lbs). And the White Hawk's main pass-through storage area is right behind the trailer tongue, so if you have the optional refrigerator, the folding picnic table, and any items stored up front (a grill or tools, for example), they'll have an undue influence on the tongue weight. So will the optional 30lb propane tanks (which is why I avoided them).

But here's the real issue with 1/2 ton trucks towing 3.5+ tons of trailer - rear gross axle weight rating (GAWR). I was shocked to hit the scales with a camping load and find that I was 128 lbs over my truck's rear GAWR of 4,050. Part of that was taken care of with additional adjustments to my WD hitch to redistribute more tongue weight back to the front axle. And I also went into full cargo paring down mode, pulling items out of the trailer that I just don't need (you tend to over-pack in your first year of ownership with a new trailer). And lastly, I redistributed some of my trailer load from the front basement storage compartment.

Taken together, all of these measures have me operating within safe limits on tongue weight, cargo weight and rear axle weight rating, but it's close. I'd like to add a second battery, but I really can't really afford another 62 lbs of tongue weight. I'd like to move up to a hitch like the ProPride, but it outweighs my current hitch by quite a bit. I've done all the things one can do to optimize a 1/2 ton truck for towing - Timbrens on the truck's rear, LT tires, and I'm even upgrading the trailer's tires and suspension this spring. None of that changes the fact that I'm operating right at the limits of my truck and must be hyper-vigilant on what I load up for a trip.

Funny thing is, the truck tows the trailer like a dream. Plenty of power, merges well, no issues with sway, no front end float, no overheating on hills, etc. And some folks on the boards have told me "Don't worry about it, modern 1/2 ton trucks are over-engineered, yours is fine for that trailer." But I like having safety margins - it's just the way I am. So...I'm shopping around for an F350 now. I'm not in a rush, I've got several trips planned this year and the F150, which I love, can handle any of them (the longest is about 600 miles round trip). IF a max tow AND max payload F-150 fell into my lap then perhaps I'd bite, but those are few and far between. That's why I think there's a 1-ton truck in my future.

Hope this helps.

[Nukeneck]

Originally Posted by bono

I am towing 28DSBH with a short wheelbase TV. I use ProPride hitch, maybe therefore, the towing is comfortable, no white knuckles. I towed this trailer from Indiana to California. Rockies, Tahoe, semis, strong cross winds... no problem.

Good luck!

I looked at the ProPride hitch online for the first time yesterday. I like the concept for sure. Seems as though the geometry is completely different than any standard WDH. My concerns are A) price! If I read it right it was about $2500 for the entire setup (Yikes!!!) and B) the weight of the WDH itself. Those of us with 1/2 tons are already pushing the limit in just about every other category when towing. I could not find a spec that states what the weight of a ProPride is.

As far as the OP, I am towing a 2015 28DSBH with my 2014 F-150. The payload on the yellow sticker is similar in weight. I have since installed airbags and E rated Michelin's to help keep things stable. Power wise, there is no problem. If I stay at or below 65 mph than I don't have any sway issues. Every once in a while when a big rig passes in the same direction there is some push but I will try and hug the fog line a bit until it passes. I have yet to tow with the E tires but I'm hoping it makes a difference and adds peace of mind.

I try and keep the payload of the truck on the lighter side. My generator, a cooler or two and other lightweight items. I don't bring any firewood with me and if the place I'm going has water, I fill up the TT tank when I get there.

[bono]

If I remember correctly, the whole PP hitch is around 180 lbs.

[milw156]

Here's a thread from the past showing when I took my then F150 & 28DSBH to a CAT scale. We were on our return from Seattle to San Diego and back.

http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...ale-14959.html

[Ottawasteve]

[QUOTE=Nukeneck;497154]I looked at the ProPride hitch online for the first time yesterday. I like the concept for sure. Seems as though the geometry is completely different than any standard WDH. My concerns are A) price! If I read it right it was about $2500 for the entire setup (Yikes!!!) and B) the weight of the WDH itself. Those of us with 1/2 tons are already pushing the limit in just about every other category when towing. I could not find a spec that states what the weight of a ProPride is.
QUOTE]

Mikey's situation mirrors almost identically my situation and I am at 1050 lbs of tongue weight with a Propride hitch. I pack carefully to also remain within my trucks specs but I would sooner be 100 lbs overweight with a Propride than 100lbs under payload with any other hitch. The heavier you tow, the more you will appreciate the abilities of the Propride/Hensley hitches.

[LiftedAWDAstro]

Ottawasteve is 100% right. If you at or over (like I was by 1,000# on rear axle), you better have the best hitch available to control the weight. My Tundra towed like a dream. I used the equity as a reason to trade up to a diesel 2500. I did not need to based on towing experience, only on weight ratings.

[Sergeum]

Originally Posted by nosnhojm

Currently have a 2017 F150 EcoBoost with a tow rating of 11,700 lbs; however, the max payload (per the yellow door jam sticker) is 1552 lbs. We are looking at purchasing a 2016 28dsbh, which has a dry weight of 6020, gross weight of 7500, and a dry hitch of 655.

My concern is the payload capacity of my truck. If I estimate 13% of a typical loaded trailer (let's say 7000 lbs), that would put the tongue weight at 910 lbs. Truck passengers ~= 600 lbs. Plus the weight of the hitch, gas, tonneau cover, etc.

Does anyone else pull with this combo? Does the WDH provide any additional buffer?

I believe a full tank of fuel is already part of Ford's Payload calculation. You don't need to factor that into your math.

[kampfirekid]

150# for the driver AND a full tank of fuel is included. That will get you close, but the only true way is to scale.
A WDH will relieve some of the tow vehicles RAW, but part of it is then distributed to the tow vehicle FAW and trailer axle weights.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[schrederman]

My previous trailer was 1,000 pounds lighter than my 28DSBH. I towed it with an F-150. I had enough power but the truck was too light, and I got blown around a lot. I upgraded the truck knowing I was going to upgrade the camper. I haven't been sorry, even though we didn't upgrade the trailer size as much as we thought we would.

[Mikey]

It’s true that for Ford trucks a full tank of fuel (as well as all oil and lubricants) is included in the base curb weight. But there's no weight allowance for a driver - at least not in 2010 (I’m not guessing here, this is according to Ford’s 2010 “Truck Payload” and “F-150 Dimensions” guides). There's an easy and accurate way to compute available payload. Let’s use my truck as an example:

2010 F-150 SCREW, 5.4L MAX TOW, 5.5', base curb weight = 5,705 lbs.

STEP 1: Weigh the truck with NO CARGO OR PASSENGERS and full gas/fluids to get its ACTUAL curb weight (base curb weight PLUS factory and aftermarket options). My truck actually weighs 6,020 lbs. The extra weight isn't fuel (because fuel is included in the base curb weight). It comes from both factory and aftermarket options such as upgraded tires, skid plates, bed liner, tonneau cover, etc. A 10-way power seat adds 14 lbs. A moon roof adds 34 lbs. Even "little" things like a power sliding rear window and full rubber floor mats add to the base curb weight, which is why it isn't really a useful number.

STEP 2: Subtract the ACTUAL curb weight from the GVWR listed on the vehicle’s doorjamb sticker - the difference is the truck’s ACTUAL payload. In my case, that’s:

7,675 (GVWR) – 6,020 (Actual Curb Weight) = 1,655 lbs. (Actual Payload)

While my truck’s doorjamb sticker says I’ve got 1,727 lbs. of payload capacity, it’s not accounting for my aftermarket bed liner, tonneau cover, etc. These things reduce payload capacity further and cannot be ignored. That's why I'm at 1,655 lbs.

Without knowing which aftermarket options are installed on the OP’s truck (he mentions a tonneau cover and I’d guess there’s another item or two), his listed payload of 1,552 lbs. may actually be down to about 1,450-1,500 lbs. Using his weight estimates, here’s what we get:

1,500 - 910 (est. 13% tongue weight) - 600 (passengers) - 90 (typical WD hitch) = 1,600.

He’d be over by about 100 lbs. If he goes with something like a ProPride he’ll be over almost 200 lbs. If his tongue weight comes in around 1,000 lbs. (and I think 910 is conservative for a 2016 28DSBH) he’ll be over almost 300 lbs. Whether he’s comfortable with that is a different question, but I’m guessing he’ll end up at/over his truck’s cargo capacity.

[Nukeneck]

Originally Posted by Mikey

It’s true that for Ford trucks a full tank of fuel (as well as all oil and lubricants) is included in the base curb weight. But there's no weight allowance for a driver - at least not in 2010 (I’m not guessing here, this is according to Ford’s 2010 “Truck Payload” and “F-150 Dimensions” guides). There's an easy and accurate way to compute available payload. Let’s use my truck as an example:

2010 F-150 SCREW, 5.4L MAX TOW, 5.5', base curb weight = 5,705 lbs.

STEP 1: Weigh the truck with NO CARGO OR PASSENGERS and full gas/fluids to get its ACTUAL curb weight (base curb weight PLUS factory and aftermarket options). My truck actually weighs 6,020 lbs. The extra weight isn't fuel (because fuel is included in the base curb weight). It comes from both factory and aftermarket options such as upgraded tires, skid plates, bed liner, tonneau cover, etc. A 10-way power seat adds 14 lbs. A moon roof adds 34 lbs. Even "little" things like a power sliding rear window and full rubber floor mats add to the base curb weight, which is why it isn't really a useful number.

STEP 2: Subtract the ACTUAL curb weight from the GVWR listed on the vehicle’s doorjamb sticker - the difference is the truck’s ACTUAL payload. In my case, that’s:

7,675 (GVWR) – 6,020 (Actual Curb Weight) = 1,655 lbs. (Actual Payload)

While my truck’s doorjamb sticker says I’ve got 1,727 lbs. of payload capacity, it’s not accounting for my aftermarket bed liner, tonneau cover, etc. These things reduce payload capacity further and cannot be ignored. That's why I'm at 1,655 lbs.

Without knowing which aftermarket options are installed on the OP’s truck (he mentions a tonneau cover and I’d guess there’s another item or two), his listed payload of 1,552 lbs. may actually be down to about 1,450-1,500 lbs. Using his weight estimates, here’s what we get:

1,500 - 910 (est. 13% tongue weight) - 600 (passengers) - 90 (typical WD hitch) = 1,600.

He’d be over by about 100 lbs. If he goes with something like a ProPride he’ll be over almost 200 lbs. If his tongue weight comes in around 1,000 lbs. (and I think 910 is conservative for a 2016 28DSBH) he’ll be over almost 300 lbs. Whether he’s comfortable with that is a different question, but I’m guessing he’ll end up at/over his truck’s cargo capacity.

Good posts MIkey throughout this thread. I'm going to use this info to weigh my TV and TT and all the other mathematical equations you've listed here. In the end I'm left with whatever the math tells me because I'm not buying a larger rig until this one has done it's time. Thanks for sharing!

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Nukeneck

snip...... I'm going to use this info to weigh my TV and TT and all the other mathematical equations you've listed here.....snip

The following CAT Scale "how-to" may be helpful in concert with member 'Mikey' posts:

http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...v-tt-3871.html

Bob

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

The following CAT Scale "how-to" may be helpful in concert with member 'Mikey' posts:

http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...v-tt-3871.html

Bob

Good stuff, Bob, thanks for sharing!