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02-06-2015, 07:27 AM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldermike
Payload is a marketing number. Through the years all these numbers have moved up every year when in fact the basic platform (generations) have only changed a few times. I suppose a different type of paint allows more payload than last years paint color. I think red has the potential to increase payload the most, perhaps green but I can't prove that anymore than the big three can justify why 1/2 tons of 10 years ago are 1 tons today. Its about selling trucks.
spring travel and tire load range is payload.
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You may be right, but if my insurance company and the DOT are happy with it, then I'm down the road.....
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02-06-2015, 08:41 AM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtsum2
Not sure how that is when the frames on today's trucks are completely different than those of just a few years ago. Example - Ram changed their HD frames to 50k psi cold steel and changed the design about 2 years ago...(along with other factors I am sure) jumped their payload way up. But the main component (frame) has changed significantly over the last few years...I think Chevy also uses 50k psi cold steel now as well?
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There is not a third party approval process on these numbers, no national testing lab, no unified spec with standardized tests. This is not medium or heavy trucks they are in fact cars that can carry stuff.
The stickers do not reference a single DOT standard and in fact they have instead a statement that says complies with all DOT standards in effect on date of manufacture. Those specs are side crash, front crash, safety belts and things like that. MAnufacturers can make any claim they choose they choose to make up to an including that you look better in their truck than you do in any other truck.
With that said. For legal reasons we should pay attention to the stickers.
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No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar. Abraham Lincoln
2016 36FBTS Pinnacle
2016 F350, 6.7, 4x4, DRW, long bed
B & W Companion 5th wheel Hitch
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02-06-2015, 09:01 AM
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#43
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldermike
There is not a third party approval process on these numbers, no national testing lab, no unified spec with standardized tests. This is not medium or heavy trucks they are in fact cars that can carry stuff.
The stickers do not reference a single DOT standard and in fact they have instead a statement that says complies with all DOT standards in effect on date of manufacture. Those specs are side crash, front crash, safety belts and things like that. MAnufacturers can make any claim they choose they choose to make up to an including that you look better in their truck than you do in any other truck.
With that said. For legal reasons we should pay attention to the stickers.
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Interesting..I did not know that. Would the specs fall under the new J2807 standard, or is that for something else?
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02-06-2015, 11:20 AM
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#44
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Salem
Posts: 819
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It would be interesting to do J2807 tests with trucks towing over the given GVW. My guess is that they would all pass the test with the exception of some 1/2 tons.
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02-09-2015, 05:00 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 885
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All these trucks have some sort of warranty so the manufacturer is guaranteeing that the truck can carry or tow that weight for a specified number of miles or years. If someone grossly overrated their vehicle they would get a lot of warranty returns wouldn't they?
I agree that they aren't just marketing numbers. Better brakes, frames, engines, transmissions, sway control, tires, etc..... It all has to add up to more capability.
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2014 Jayco Swift 281BHS, 300W Solar!
2015 F250 XLT 4x4 Crew Cab, Short box, 6.2 gas
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02-09-2015, 05:51 PM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NE North Dakota
Posts: 118
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I picked up my new 2015 Ram 2500 from the dealership on friday. The door sticker says 2,975 pounds of payload. This has the 6.4 liter gas motor, crew cab, long box, four wheel drive, and the coil spring suspension. I debated between the 2500 and 3500, but I went with the 2500 because I liked the coil spring suspension ride better. My pinweight loaded is around 2,200 to 2,300 pounds loaded heavy, and plan to keep this trailer for many years. I can see how payload capacity runs out fast, as my fifth wheel is not a huge one. For my application, the 2500 fits the bill. But it's all about your payload needs really.
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02-09-2015, 09:04 PM
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#47
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 974
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My comments are not meant to say that marketing driven numbers are not backed up by engineering and inhouse testing. I just personally do not fully trust self certification. However the truck wars have become silly enough to cause even the industry to begin a process of standardizing tests. I think they better do something by 3rd party before light duty trucks exceed the specs of medium duty.
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No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar. Abraham Lincoln
2016 36FBTS Pinnacle
2016 F350, 6.7, 4x4, DRW, long bed
B & W Companion 5th wheel Hitch
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02-09-2015, 09:09 PM
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#48
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Flower Mound
Posts: 122
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Yes, the interesting thing about my truck is the rear axle is rated by the manufacturer (Dana) at 16000lbs, but the trucks RAGWR is just over 9000lbs -- I'd have thought that all the parts would be around the same rating as the whole -- otherwise your just wasting money since the weakest link determines the total.
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02-17-2015, 11:33 AM
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#49
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utah
Posts: 892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchmitchell
Yes, the interesting thing about my truck is the rear axle is rated by the manufacturer (Dana) at 16000lbs, but the trucks RAGWR is just over 9000lbs -- I'd have thought that all the parts would be around the same rating as the whole -- otherwise your just wasting money since the weakest link determines the total.
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Partly true, but it's cheaper to by an off the shelf axle than have a custom run for a line. It's also cheaper to order in quantity. Same axle for the whole 2500/3500 line gets steeper discounts than a different axle for each model.
Much of the time it has to do with the truck classification. EG Class 2 trucks(think 250/2500) have (GVWR) ranges from 6001–10000 lb. Class 3 trucks(think 350/3500) have (GVWR) ranges from 10001–14000 lb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification
My info
I tip the scales at 7362 with a full tank, me, and tonneau cover installed. Leaves me with 2,638.
950-980 lbs tongue weight
100 lbs hitch
270lbs of other human
40 lbs of "junk"
85 lbs generator
120 lbs fuel
250 lbs firewood
Right at 700 lbs of available payload capacity.
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2014 Ram 2500 Mega Cab Laramie 4x4 6.4L HEMI 4.10s with antispin
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Equal-i-zer 90-00-1200(new 90-02-4900 shank)
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03-21-2015, 09:52 AM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland
Posts: 383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subaru297
I am just curious about the actual payload of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks.
I moved up to a 2015 F250 last summer as our F150 payload wasn't cutting it.
Our F250 is a crew cab short box with the 6.2L gas engine and has a payload of 2749lbs. I am looking for the door jamb number not a number from a brochure for your model truck. When we bought our truck the salesman didn't even know that the brochure number wasn't accurate and kept quoting that to me. I kept trying to explain to him that it wasn't.
One of the trucks I test drove was a F350 Lariat with the diesel and the payload was just over 2000lbs I think. I mentioned this to him and he argued about it and I finally said go out to your lot and look! He came back a bit sheepish. I was really surprised it was that low myself.
What is the payload of your diesel 250/2500? And any other 250/2500 or 350/3500 trucks? Please give specs if they aren't in your sig.
Thanks
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My F350 was rated for 2950 payload but in actuality with all the options and Diesel engine I ended up with a 1,700lb payload. Same as my '14 F150. This was an 02 F350 Crew Cab LB 7.3 Lariat 4x4. Sure the truck could carry a lot more than that but not legally.
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2016 23MBH Elite
2015 Ram 2500 SLT 4x4 6.7 Cummins
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03-22-2015, 03:52 PM
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#51
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blderman
.... Sure the truck could carry a lot more than that but not legally.
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Depends on what "legality" we're talking about. All the states allow folks to buy class a diesel pushers that have GVWR of just under 26k without classifying the vehicle as a commercial truck.
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Craig T. Bailey
Hudson, NH
2015 Jayflight 32BHDS
2018 Chevy 3500HD Crew 4x4 Duramax
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03-22-2015, 03:57 PM
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland
Posts: 383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbailey
Depends on what "legality" we're talking about. All the states allow folks to buy class a diesel pushers that have GVWR of just under 26k without classifying the vehicle as a commercial truck.
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I am talking about exceeding the GCWR of the vehicle. If you then cause an accident and it is found you exceeded the rating you can be in serious trouble. I have seen it happen quite a few times in Oregon.
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2016 23MBH Elite
2015 Ram 2500 SLT 4x4 6.7 Cummins
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03-23-2015, 12:53 PM
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#53
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bremerton
Posts: 342
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I didn't find the payload number on my sticker. But:
- from the spec sheet
GVWR = 9600#
base wt = 7329#
design payload = 2271# (not bad)
- from latest trip to the city dump
GVWR = 9600#
tare wt from scales = 7740# (driver + 1/2 tank fuel)
avail max payload for towing = 1860#
therefore driver + 3 passengers + tank of fuel = 3/4 ton of remaining payload capacity.
Tim
2010 Ram 2500 CCLB
2008 JF 26BHS
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03-23-2015, 02:00 PM
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#54
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland
Posts: 383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjpolsin
I didn't find the payload number on my sticker. But:
- from the spec sheet
GVWR = 9600#
base wt = 7329#
design payload = 2271# (not bad)
- from latest trip to the city dump
GVWR = 9600#
tare wt from scales = 7740# (driver + 1/2 tank fuel)
avail max payload for towing = 1860#
therefore driver + 3 passengers + tank of fuel = 3/4 ton of remaining payload capacity.
Tim
2010 Ram 2500 CCLB
2008 JF 26BHS
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This is exactly what I am talking about. The "paper" figures on the website don't mean anything. I swear they rate these trucks without bumpers or seating. A lot of people think you can buy a 3/4 Ton truck and throw anything in it. In reality its just as easy to overload a 3/4 ton as a 1/2 ton.
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2016 23MBH Elite
2015 Ram 2500 SLT 4x4 6.7 Cummins
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03-23-2015, 02:06 PM
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blderman
I am talking about exceeding the GCWR of the vehicle. If you then cause an accident and it is found you exceeded the rating you can be in serious trouble. I have seen it happen quite a few times in Oregon.
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Would it be possible to find a link or anything to one of these cases. I have searched high and low for any kind of case that involved GVWR numbers on light trucks and can't find a thing.
I did find one brought against a national rent a trailer chain but as best I can understand it was about policy and not about the GVWR of the tow truck.
But if there is one we all need to see it.
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No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar. Abraham Lincoln
2016 36FBTS Pinnacle
2016 F350, 6.7, 4x4, DRW, long bed
B & W Companion 5th wheel Hitch
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03-23-2015, 02:12 PM
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#56
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland
Posts: 383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldermike
Would it be possible to find a link or anything to one of these cases. I have searched high and low for any kind of case that involved GVWR numbers on light trucks and can't find a thing.
I did find one brought against a national rent a trailer chain but as best I can understand it was about policy and not about the GVWR of the tow truck.
But if there is one we all need to see it.
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I don't have any news stories or reports to share. My info comes from family/friends who are local PD officers/troopers.
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2016 23MBH Elite
2015 Ram 2500 SLT 4x4 6.7 Cummins
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03-23-2015, 02:26 PM
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#57
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blderman
I don't have any news stories or reports to share. My info comes from family/friends who are local PD officers/troopers.
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Thanks, but the question remains...........is there a case out there where the final fault was found to be overloading of a light truck.
I mean the trooper can't write a ticket unless it's a law on the books. I can't find a law on the books in any state that says that these stickers are legal numbers.
But thanks again.
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No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar. Abraham Lincoln
2016 36FBTS Pinnacle
2016 F350, 6.7, 4x4, DRW, long bed
B & W Companion 5th wheel Hitch
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03-23-2015, 02:46 PM
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#58
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Central California
Posts: 2,283
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2007.5, LMM Durmax, 4 dr, 4x4, 6' bed = door sticker 2351.
Previous '04 5.3 1500 4dr 4x4 1800.
For me 550 lb gain in payload between 1500 and 2500 is significant.
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03-23-2015, 03:05 PM
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#59
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia`s Eastern Shore
Posts: 17,091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clubhouse
2007.5, LMM Durmax, 4 dr, 4x4, 6' bed = door sticker 2351.
Previous '04 5.3 1500 4dr 4x4 1800.
For me 550 lb gain in payload between 1500 and 2500 is significant.
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And I gained 2,000 lbs over my 1500 as per the door stickers.....
My 04 2500 payload is 3474lbs on the sticker
My 04 1500 work truck is 1454 lbs. Quite a difference.
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2017 Coachmen Catalina 283RKS
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03-23-2015, 06:51 PM
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#60
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bremerton
Posts: 342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldermike
Thanks, but the question remains...........is there a case out there where the final fault was found to be overloading of a light truck.
I mean the trooper can't write a ticket unless it's a law on the books. I can't find a law on the books in any state that says that these stickers are legal numbers.
But thanks again.
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The only possible thing I can think of is a denial of a warranty claim if your truck damage was due to an (proven) overloaded condition.
*****
As an aside, the ONLY difference between my 2010 ram 2500 and a 2010 ram 3500 SRW is the rear spring pack.
The frames, axles, brakes, engine, transmission are all the same.
The 2500 has a max payload of 2270#. The tow rating maxs out at 12,500 with a diesel, auto trans, and a 3.73 rear end.
With only a change in the rear spring pack, the 3500 has a max payload of 2990#. The tow rating with the same 3.73 rear end is 13,750#
I would get an extra 720# of payload and an extra 1250# of tow capacity - with just a change in spring pack.
But if I swapped out the springs myself, a RV dealership would still only recognize my 12,500 tow capacity - as that is what is listed on the build sheet for my truck.
**************
Tim
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