You'll be fine...

[loansinpa]

To pull that trailer...until you're not.

I'd like to say I was the only one but it doesn't take much reading down the board to see that I'm not. Unfortunate, so I put this as yet another notice to those eager purchasers.

Background:
Coming from pulling a 26' camper weighing in ~6-7k. All was good. Decided at the Hershey show to move up to a bigger unit...that we did and then some. NorthPoint 375BHFS.

'13 F-250 diesel- 15,900 tow rating pulling a 5th wheel. Camper is capped at 16k GVW so as long as I run a little light, all is good. Seems I wasn't schooled enough in payload ratings. Thank's salespeople.

We did have the new one out once about 100 miles away and sure enough it did pull it fine (after putting in air bags). One of my neighbors at the campground also commented how there was no way he would pull something like that with his 250. That started the real concern.

Once I got back the education really started. So we got the 10k GVW sticker that they all have. Beyond that we got the tire sticker that says not to go over 1950 of additional weight which would also put things around 10k.

Off to the scale last week. Day 1, just me in the truck. 8460 lbs. Published curb weight is 7554. So between me, the hitch, and other miscellaneous items in the truck (full tank of gas) I was already 900 lbs into that 1950 tire load assuming it was based on curb weight. Less if it factored a driver and tank of gas.

Day 2 - trailer attached I pull on the scale with just the truck (trailer attached but not on scale) - 11660. Figure ~3200 pin weight. So that 10k GVW...and that 2k of tire weight...not really close. Total weight 23k. I was however within the individual axle ratings if that mattered.

This is also fairly empty (beyond what stays in the camper). No family, no clothes/food, etc.

Oh, did I mention a state trooper was hanging out in the weigh booth where I took it to get weighted (local trash transfer station). Yea, he and I had a nice chat after and luckily he was very nice and saw that I was there because I was trying to do the right thing. No citation.

When I'm actually heading out I figure I'd have a pin weight somewhere between 3200-4000 (if the camper was maxed out) along with family, etc. Those weight ratings are only a suggestion...right?

The story does have a suitable, though more expensive ending. Tomorrow I pick up my '16 F350 dulley. Weight will no longer be an issue. Parking on the other hand...

What is troublesome (beyond salespeople acting like sales and not like consultants) is that to stay within weight ratings a 5th wheel would need to cap out around 6000 lbs (6k x 20% pin = 1200 lbs which is about all I had to stay close to the 2k tire sticker or under the 10k)

So, potential buyers out there...learn all the numbers...not just the ones manufactures use for marketing purposes and sure as heck don't go by any salesperson who says 'you'll be fine'. Or be content running overweight as many out there on the road seem to be and hope that an accident never happens.

Peace out.

[Country_Mouse]

From all the stories I hear on this forum I think those sales people should be liable if something happens AND for the purchase of the new TV people have to buy! I know this is completely impractical but they really shouldn't be allowed to keep misleading people especially where safety is concerned.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by loansinpa

snip....... So, potential buyers out there...learn all the numbers...not just the ones manufactures use for marketing purposes and sure as heck don't go by any salesperson who says 'you'll be fine'. Or be content running overweight as many out there on the road seem to be and hope that an accident never happens......snip

X2


.......... and welcome to JOF!

Bob

[WrenZ71]

What a lot of people don't realize is while the Diesel motor will pull the trailer with easy it's heavy and lowers your cargo carrying capacity.

Here is a example:
My truck
15 Silverado 2500 4x4 Crew cab,Standard box,vortec 6.0 gas
GVWR:9500 lbs
CCC: 2986 lbs (not near truck,my be off alittle)

My cousins truck
15 Silverado 2500 4x4 Crew cab,Standard box,Duramax 6.6 Diesel
GVWR:10000 lbs
CCC:2356 lbs (again not near truck may be off alittle)

So apparently the Duramax, Alison trans and 11.5 aam rear axle weigh 1100 lbs more than my Vortec 6.0, 6L90E and 10.5 aam rear axle.

[norty1]

Sales people are not who you should field towing questions. Their job is sales. Most have no clue about towing.
Or trailers for that matter!

[troutslayer]

Originally Posted by Country_Mouse

From all the stories I hear on this forum I think those sales people should be liable if something happens

While I completely agree that most rv salespeople don't have a clue when it comes to pin weights, I do think that the individual dealerships have some liability as well. Afterall, they are the ones who should hold the salespeople to a higher standard. I can hear the conversation now:
(dealer manager) "did you close the sale on loansinpa?"
(salesperson) "no"
(dealer manager) "why not?"
(salesperson) "I told him that the 5er was too heavy for his truck"
(dealer manager) "YOU'RE FIRED!"

[Hattie]

Originally Posted by Country_Mouse

From all the stories I hear on this forum I think those sales people should be liable if something happens AND for the purchase of the new TV people have to buy! I know this is completely impractical but they really shouldn't be allowed to keep misleading people especially where safety is concerned.

So true ... used to work for a computer company where salespersons got the full commission at time of contract sign-off ~ they were selling vaporware and dreams. The company wised-up and changed it to %-awarded at key sign-off points (e.g., sale, fully implemented, and finally in 'steady state'). This made for wiser sells, satisfied customers, less-stressed consultants and technicians, and less job-hopping by the salesforce (though they weren't happy)!

[mike837go]

Originally Posted by Hattie

So true ... used to work for a computer company where salespersons got the full commission at time of contract sign-off ~ they were selling vaporware and dreams. The company wised-up and changed it to %-awarded at key sign-off points (e.g., sale, fully implemented, and finally in 'steady state'). This made for wiser sells, satisfied customers, less-stressed consultants and technicians, and less job-hopping by the salesforce (though they weren't happy)!

"Vaporware" - There's a phase I haven't heard in quite a while!

Although clouds made from water vapor? So we're really buying vaporware now, aren't we?

---------

And I totally agree that the dealership should have some kind of responsibility in making sure that the tow is adequate for the trailer.

[loansinpa]

I agree on all counts. I should have learned more on my own but at the same time I rely on them to give valid information. Other than motorhomes, every single thing they sell has be be towed. Knowing what can and can't be done should be part of the job. I was in there today picking up some ordered parts and made sure they knew how far over I was, how annoyed I was and that they really need to stop using the phrase 'you'll be fine' when they really don't know.

I technically work in sales as well and see all the time people who get screwed by others just trying to make a buck off them. Taking the approach of a consultant vs a sales person has been much more lucrative for me as I'm sure it would be for any type of sales. The best referral sources I've ever had are those I turn away because it's not in their best interest and I show them why.

[Bobx2]

Originally Posted by Country_Mouse

From all the stories I hear on this forum I think those sales people should be liable if something happens AND for the purchase of the new TV people have to buy! I know this is completely impractical but they really shouldn't be allowed to keep misleading people especially where safety is concerned.

It is the responsibility of the consumer to educate themselves before making a purchase. It is not up to the sales people, or dealer, to try and educate you. They are there to make a living selling RV's, not to hold your hand and give you an education. You can't expect them to know the numbers on all the TV's, and their ever changing tow ratings. It's your vehicle, not theirs. You need to know what your vehicle is capable of towing.
When you are getting ready to drop $50k or more, isn't it worth spending a day or two educating yourself first? If you don't, then shame on you. I know this sounds harsh, but sometimes, it really is our fault...

[etex211]

Originally Posted by Bobx2

It is the responsibility of the consumer to educate themselves before making a purchase. It is not up to the sales people, or dealer, to try and educate you. They are there to make a living selling RV's, not to hold your hand and give you an education.
When you are getting ready to drop $50k or more, isn't it worth spending a day or two educating yourself first? If you don't, then shame on you.

I agree with this. I am amazed at the large purchases people will make without doing their own research first.

The salesmen will always tell you that you can pull anything with anything.

[Country_Mouse]

Originally Posted by Bobx2

It is the responsibility of the consumer to educate themselves before making a purchase. It is not up to the sales people, or dealer, to try and educate you. They are there to make a living selling RV's, not to hold your hand and give you an education. You can't expect them to know the numbers on all the TV's, and their ever changing tow ratings. It's your vehicle, not theirs. You need to know what your vehicle is capable of towing.
When you are getting ready to drop $50k or more, isn't it worth spending a day or two educating yourself first? If you don't, then shame on you. I know this sounds harsh, but sometimes, it really is our fault...

Of course, and personally I did. I still hold to that they do have a basic responsibility to understand how to figure out tow ratings and not sell something too big. How hard is it to look at the potential buyers sticker on their TV?

The reality is most people don't do their due diligence and therefore put others lives at risk.

I "thought" I understood when we rented and later found out after researching purchasing our own that we were way over weight.

They do this for a living for goodness sakes. They should know, period.

[loansinpa]

Originally Posted by etex211

I agree with this. I am amazed at the large purchases people will make without doing their own research first.

The salesmen will always tell you that you can pull anything with anything.

An ethical sales person should welcome the opportunity to educate a consumer as a means of earning the sale. I don't disagree that a consumer should also do what they can to learn on their own but at the same time not all consumers know what questions to ask on all topics as they have probably learned what the learned on the internet...which can have many opinions on the same things. The salesperson should be able to bring it all together and separate fact from fiction. A sales person saying I don't know (but you can check here) is much better than giving out false positives.