Dry camping questions

[ashmanbrian]

We have LED lights so not worried about lighting. But have never used electric water pump.

1. Will using electric water pump for water/toilet about 2 days be okay on battery?
2. How about using the microwave a few times for 4-5 minutes ?
3. What about stove fan for minutes a few times?

Advice? How many of these can I use and not drain my battery. 2-3 days dry camping. I am fine with just lights and water pump, will that work?

[TommyAjax]

Depends on size of battery (amp hours of capacity) and how much you are using your appliances...if it is a "regular" battery (lead acid or agm, not lithium), cut the amp hours in half for available usage (ie. 100 amp hours means you can use about 50 amp hours without harming the battery by drawing it down to far).

According to my Jayco book, the water pump pulls 7 amps, not sure about the stove. So running the water pump for one hour will use 7 amp hours of your 50 hours available. There is also some other stuff pulling power from your battery - ie. LP detector, lights, etc.

Microwave will not run off of your battery as it is a high-draw AC appliance (1000+ watts) - battery provides DC power.

For a couple of days running only your water pump. lights and stove, you should be fine. Turn on the furnace and all bets are off.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by TommyAjax

For a couple of days running only your water pump. lights and stove, you should be fine.

And you can recharge by plugging back into the tow and run the engine for awhile.

[oldmanAZ]

After boondocking many days last year, these are my thoughts...

Originally Posted by ashmanbrian

We have LED lights so not worried about lighting. But have never used electric water pump.

1. Will using electric water pump for water/toilet about 2 days be okay on battery?Yes. It's on briefly, only when you use water.
2. How about using the microwave a few times for 4-5 minutes ?NOPE! Draws WAY too much power.
3. What about stove fan for minutes a few times?I wouldn't. That fan and your furnace fan pull lots of power as compared to the LED lights and occasional water pump use.

Advice? ...snip... I am fine with just lights and water pump, will that work?Yes, but how many lights? Turn on the minimum number of lights. Our under awning lights are LED but draw lots more power than a couple of interior LED lights.

You will have to watch your 12 volt electric consumption. You didn't mention if you have a refrigerator... that uses 12 volt power as does the LP detector... or if you use 12 volt power for the radio, or a TV, or laptops, etc.

Remember, too, that your tow vehicle provides 12 volt power to your trailer battery. It's not really enough current to charge your trailer battery, but in a real bind, you could start your vehicle with the trailer plugged in, for example, to be able to run the furnace fan with the inside of the trailer stone-cold and your trailer battery virtually dead (please don't ask me how I know about THAT ).

I bought an inexpensive (under $10) volt meter that plugs into the trailer's 12 volt accessory socket to easily keep tabs on my battery voltage.

[ashmanbrian]

Thanks all.
I was planning on using the fridge on propane. It only has an led display that will draw electricity, so I thought I would be fine ?..

[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by ashmanbrian

Thanks all.
I was planning on using the fridge on propane. It only has an led display that will draw electricity, so I thought I would be fine ?..

Yup. Using the fridge on propane is fine.

FYI, in addition to the LED display, the fridge temp control and the inside light are also 12 volt but all that is very low power draw.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by ashmanbrian

Thanks all.
I was planning on using the fridge on propane. It only has an led display that will draw electricity, so I thought I would be fine ?..

Some RV refrigerators have 12-volt heaters on the door seal areas to keep them from frosting and sticking. I have a larger 4 door Norcold and it can draw several amps when the control board tells the heaters to be on. Check your particular refrigerator's specs and it may list your maximum 12-volt amp draw. May help you determine your overall AHr load.

[NVGun40]

It's been said without actually being said.
Microwave -- will not run off of your battery. You must have a generator or be connected to shore power. (this was touched on)
TV -- same thing, unless you purchased one of the aftermarket 12VDC versions.

Even running the refrigerator on propane, it still has a very low power 12VDC draw. Temp control monitors interior temperature and tells the propane burner to fire.
C02 sensor is a constant 12VDC draw.
Water heater burner, runs the same as the fridge.

Water pump is very low draw, you can discipline battery usage by turning off the pump when not in use (i.e., when sleeping, when outside, etc. just like using the lights)

You didn't mention whether you have one or two batteries (I assume one). Use of the furnace draws a lot of power when the blower fan is running.
Use of the overhead exhaust fan above the stove draws a lot of power (don't forget to open the outside vents once your parked and close them when you travel).

However, with all that said, use this knowledge to plan and act accordingly. My wife and I primarily boondock/dry camp, I grew up with RVs, and primarily dry camped. We have solar panels and generators. However, for a 2 day trip (assuming you go in on one evening, and then stay the entire next day and night and most of the day after and either come home that night or get up and go home early the following day); seriously, I will not bother unloading the panels and/or generator. If you are smart about it, you should be just fine on battery for the two days. Including running the stove fan. Do NOT panic if while you are inside cooking and you have one overhead light on, the water pump is on and you turn on the stove fan and then check your battery condition and it show 1/3 to 1/4 charge. That doesn't mean your battery is almost dead. Let the stove fan do its job and suck the cooking smoke out then turn it off. Once your done with the cooking and eating, and you turn off the lights, look at your battery condition again and it will bounce back up.
If you get concerned, plug in to your TV and let your TV idle while you are cooking and running the stove fan.
Being frugal, DW and I and a teenage boy pushed out rig out on a 6 day trip without generator or solar panels. By the afternoon of day three we would plug in the TV and let the engine run while we were cooking and eating dinner every evening. Once dinner was all cleaned up, I would shut the vehicle off and unplug. We never went below half on the battery.

[troutslayer]

Lots of good advice here. One thing I didn't see mentioned is that you should never let your battery go below 50% charge. Letting the batter go below this level permanently damages it. I think someone mentioned about getting a battery meter, which is a good idea. I have a GP27 12 volt battery and have never been able to go more than 2 days without running a generator to charge it back up.

[NVGun40]

Originally Posted by troutslayer

Lots of good advice here. One thing I didn't see mentioned is that you should never let your battery go below 50% charge. Letting the batter go below this level permanently damages it. I think someone mentioned about getting a battery meter, which is a good idea. I have a GP27 12 volt battery and have never been able to go more than 2 days without running a generator to charge it back up.

There is truth in the statement about battery damage if your battery goes below 50%. However, there is wiggle room and something to be understood here.
As I had stated (I drew from actual use experience), I had two overhead lights on (LED's) and the water pump was on but not running, and we turned on the exhaust fan for the stove. I went and checked the battery meter and it showed only 1/4 charge. That reading was showing the level plus an allowance for the current draw on the battery. Once everything was off, it jumped back up to 3/4 charge and several hours later (by the time we went to climb in bed, it was back up to reading full.

I idea, is you do not want your battery to sit at less than 50% charge while there is zero draw on it.

Not knowing what TT you are using, some other helpful tricks to extend battery life: if you have a fuse in the fuse panel for the CO2 detector, you can pull that fuse and the fuse for the radio/stereo/entertainment head.
Turn off your water heater, and heat water in a pan on the stove for washing dishes etc. Even though we have LED's throughout, we have made it a habit to try and have only one light at a time on, with exceptions to when someone uses the bathroom. When its cold out, we utilize a Buddy heater to heat the trailer instead of the furnace, turning off all heat at night. In the mornings I will get up and start the buddy heater and the coffee. By the time the coffee is ready, the stove along with the buddy heater has brought the inside of the TT up to nice warm temp and then DW will get out of bed.

[ashmanbrian]

Great info, thanks!

[Rustic Eagle]

I agree, having a means of monitoring and/or checking your battery's charge level condition is a useful tool to have.

Just some added food for thought........

I believe you will find that most standard marine/deep cycle batteries (supplied by most RV dealerships) are prone to longevity issues with moderate to high DoD's (Depth-of- Discharge), mainly because they aren't designed for this type of use. A "true" deep cycle battery on the other hand is designed for frequent DoD's.

For example; In the case of a "true" deep cycle battery with an average 50% DoD will last at least twice as long as an 80% DoD average. A typical GC-2 deep cycle battery will average 225 cycles at 80% DoD, but will increase to 750 cycles at 50% DoD.

With any battery, a shallower average DoD will increase battery life.

If you plan to do frequent boondocking, you may want to consider up-grading to a true deep cycle battery.

Bob

[Mustang65]

As mentioned in an earlier post, you should not let your battery drop below the 50% level (aprox12.00VDC). Most TT's have the light bar battery status monitor in them, they are pretty much useless. It was also recommended that you get a digital voltage meter, like one that plugs into the 12VDC accessory receptacle in the TT. There are a lot of them on Amazon that you can pick up for a decent price and are pretty accurate. These will keep you informed as to how your battery is doing. You can always give the battery(s) a little boost (with the TV) at the end of the day before calling it a night. That should help you make it through the night (unless you are using the TT's heating system).

There are 2 examples below. The easy one that plugs into the 12VDC accessory plug and the second one you need to wire in. Not sure of your mechanical/electrical skills.

Don

[ttavasc]

Originally Posted by Mustang65

As mentioned in an earlier post, you should not let your battery drop below the 50% level (aprox12.00VDC). Most TT's have the light bar battery status monitor in them, they are pretty much useless. It was also recommended that you get a digital voltage meter, like one that plugs into the 12VDC accessory receptacle in the TT. There are a lot of them on Amazon that you can pick up for a decent price and are pretty accurate. These will keep you informed as to how your battery is doing. You can always give the battery(s) a little boost (with the TV) at the end of the day before calling it a night. That should help you make it through the night (unless you are using the TT's heating system).

There are 2 examples below. The easy one that plugs into the 12VDC accessory plug and the second one you need to wire in. Not sure of your mechanical/electrical skills.

Don

Regarding the Creative Edge DualFAV USB Charger/Voltmeter - I ordered this item from Amazon the end of December and received an email from them early January stating that due to lack of availability the item was being removed from my order. As indicated there are numerous others of these devices to pick from including this one which is suspiciously similar to the Creative DualFAV unit:

[ashmanbrian]

Originally Posted by Mustang65

As mentioned in an earlier post, you should not let your battery drop below the 50% level (aprox12.00VDC). Most TT's have the light bar battery status monitor in them, they are pretty much useless. It was also recommended that you get a digital voltage meter, like one that plugs into the 12VDC accessory receptacle in the TT. There are a lot of them on Amazon that you can pick up for a decent price and are pretty accurate. These will keep you informed as to how your battery is doing. You can always give the battery(s) a little boost (with the TV) at the end of the day before calling it a night. That should help you make it through the night (unless you are using the TT's heating system).

There are 2 examples below. The easy one that plugs into the 12VDC accessory plug and the second one you need to wire in. Not sure of your mechanical/electrical skills.

Don

So can you tell me what I should be able to see on this voltmeter "number wise" since you said not to let it get below 50%,ie. 12VDC? What sort of number should I see when nothing is drawing off the battery? Will I see amps or voltage? I am clueless as to what number is okay.

[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by ashmanbrian

So can you tell me what I should be able to see on this voltmeter "number wise" since you said not to let it get below 50%,ie. 12VDC? What sort of number should I see when nothing is drawing off the battery? Will I see amps or voltage? I am clueless as to what number is okay.

A voltmeter only shows volts. And, as Don said, the voltmeter should not go lower than 12 volts when nothing is drawing off the battery.

If you have the voltmeter plugged into a 12 volt outlet, the voltage can be lower than 12 volts while 12 volt items (lights, water pump, etc.) are drawing current. When all those items are off, you want the voltmeter to show 12 volts or more.

In reality, you cannot easily shut off ALL 12 volt items - items like the propane detector and refrigerator running on propane - but those are very low current draw so I ignore them. Just shut off all the items you can switch off and see what the voltmeter shows.

Plus, when you are plugged into shore power, you will see the converter charging the battery and voltmeter will read in the 13 volt range.

[Camper_bob]

How reliable are the plug-in receptacle meters? I was going to wire one in, but at this point it would be a waste since we don't run without power hardly ever. That being said, it would be nice to have a general idea where our battery is if we have to stop and sleep for a few hours overnight on a multi-day journey.

[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

How reliable are the plug-in receptacle meters? I was going to wire one in, but at this point it would be a waste since we don't run without power hardly ever. That being said, it would be nice to have a general idea where our battery is if we have to stop and sleep for a few hours overnight on a multi-day journey.

I bought a NEEWER® Mini LED Display Digital Car Volt Meter 12V/24V Vehicle Voltage Gauge for under $10 on Amazon. The voltage reading matched my toolbox digital voltmeter. I plugged it into my tow vehicle, too, as a test and all was well with that. I have no complaints.

It's handy to keep an eye on the TT battery and system when boondocking, of course, but also to see the charging voltage both when the tow vehicle is running and when connected to shore power.

[Ela1948]

They're like anything else. Some real close on voltage, others off as much as 1/2 volt. I have bought and used several. They are consistent!! Meaning that the voltage variance remains the same on each unit. The way to use any of them is to plug the unit in and check actual voltage at the battery with a good volt meter. If it reads a little high or low doesn't mean much as long as you are aware of the difference. I use one in the kitchen and the other in the bedroom. They read .3 volt different all the time. No big deal if you calculate that into your thought process.

[Jagiven]

If you have one stock battery, two days you should be fine, as long as you are not using the furnace, and you are a little conservative. However, your 120 volt items will not work. These items are anything that plugs into your standard household outlets (Microwave, TV, coffeemaker, etc). In the summer we can go for about 4 days on a single charge, with a single stock battery. I do have a spare, group 29 battery that I will toss in the back of the truck when dry camping. Between the two batteries we have not had any issues.

You have LED lights which is great! The frig will cool on Propane, but uses 12V for the controls. The stove and oven only use propane, the furnace uses Propane for heat, and 12V for the controls and the blower. The blower fan uses a lot of power, and can drain a battery in one day. The AC unit will not work. The water pump uses 12V power, and not a lot of it, as it is just sitting waiting for a call of water to turn on. The new water heaters use propane to heat, and 12V for the controls, very little power consumption. Slideouts and electric awnings use 12V power. There are ways to make the microwave and other 120V appliances work off the battery; you need to install a 12V to 120V converter. They are not terribly expensive, however, they do drain your battery down rapidly, and you do need to buy one sized for your device. The other option is a generator.

Some tips; do not leave the lights ON. Remind everyone only to use the lights that they need. We actually turn on the ceiling light switch, leave it on, and then turn off each ceiling light at the fixture. Then when we need a light we turn on the lights in the area that are needed. This was a learned exercise we used before LEDs and tend to still do it. If you have a 12 Aux power point to charge your cell phones, make sure to unplug them when not charging. Furnace management is the key if you need heat. We turn it on when it is getting a little cool, and warm up the unit, then turn it off. We will wear a few extra layers as needed. We keep the heat of at night, if we get up and use the bathroom at night and think it is a little cool we’ll turn it on for a few minutes, then its right back off. In the morning, we’ll turn it on for a while to warm things back up. When it is cool out and dry camping we’ll use the oven in the morning to cook breakfast to add heat to the htt. When we are setting up, I leave the TV hooked up and running to power the HTT, while I extend the slideout to minimize drain on the battery.

Two nights, no tv or microwave, is easily doable, might need to make a few procedural adjustments, after a few trips dry camping it gets really easy, as you know what and what not to do. Worst case senerio, to get some more power it is not an effective way to charge the battery, but you can hook up the 7 pin connector to the TV, and run the TV for an hour and a half or more and get some charge back into the battery. It really takes a few hours to bring it back up to 95+% charge. I have had to do this more than once in order to teach the family about power conservation, as I purposely let them run the power down on a three day weekend when we first got our HTT.