Roof on 23b

[Kennedy64]

Picked up a 00 23b end of season last yr. uncovered today and was looking at the roof. It seems to be a full length rubber piece. I'm sure nothing has been done with the roof in years. My question....is it a rubber roof? I am going to pull up the old caulk on the front, back and anywhere else I see it. I'm going to use Entrabond tape on all the edges but can you recommend something to roll over the entire roof to make sure any little pin prick type holes are sealed? I'm also going to pull the A/C cover and replace that seal, is the bathroom vent seal or caulk? Any other tips you may have would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks

[Jmooney]

It's important to use the right product based on the type of rubber roof you have. Do some search here in JOF about different membrane types. Dicor is frequently referenced as a preferred product for replacing the joints where roof meets walls.

[Kennedy64]

Thank you! I will in JOF

[Rustic Eagle]

I would also contact Jayco directly and ask them the type of material used on your model year HTT (have your VIN handy).

Around the time frame of your 2000 HTT Jayco used both TPO (thermo plastic) and EPDM (rubber) roofing materials.

Bob

[Kennedy64]

Ok I checked with Jayco, they said I have the EPDM roof and can not and do not recommend me sealing the entire roof with anything. UGHHH How can I be sure there are no pin prick type holes in the roof. Thinking of sending one of the kids in at night with a 1 million watt light and have them shine it all over the ceiling LOL.
They also said they only recommend the Dicor self leveling caulk for the perimeter. Their just foolin right? I can use E'bond tape with no issues? I'm going to be re-caulking the entire trailer, sides, lights, windows, etc...I'm not a real patient gal, so I'm looking for a easy, yet reliable seal on the roof.

[VicS1950]

Originally Posted by Kennedy64

Ok I checked with Jayco, they said I have the EPDM roof and can not and do not recommend me sealing the entire roof with anything. UGHHH How can I be sure there are no pin prick type holes in the roof...

I've been trying to tell people not to seal their EPDM roof.

If there is no obvious physical damage your EPDM roof is fine. Scrub it with Spic and Span and inspect. I'm certain it will be fine though.

From another thread.

Originally Posted by VicS1950

Assuming you have an EPDM roof...

This is the link/source of the selected info.

Material Questions | EPDM Roofing Association

You can scroll down there to read all the information.

********************************

4. HOW CAN THE PERFORMANCE OF EPDM BE GAUGED OVER THE LAST 40 YEARS?
With over 1 billion square feet of membrane installed worldwide, EPDM has established itself as the membrane for all climatic conditions. This is supported by various laboratory studies and actual field installations. This excellent track record is the result of unique and unmatched physical characteristics:
* EPDM has superior resistance to UV (ultraviolet) radiation
* EPDM has unmatched resistance to thermal shock
* EPDM exhibits superior resistance to cyclic fatigue
* EPDM has superior resistance to hail damage
* EPDM will not become brittle and will not shatter due to low temperature flexibility

8. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BLACK EPDM AND WHITE EPDM MEMBRANE?
In addition to the oils and the polymers used to make an EPDM membrane, another ingredient is added to the mix to enhance UV resistance. In the case of a black membrane, carbon black is added, which converts UV rays into heat. With white membrane, in lieu of carbon black, titanium dioxide is typically used to reflect UV rays and prevent it from attacking the polymer.

10. DOES EPDM REQUIRE SYSTEMATIC MAINTENANCE OR ADDITIONAL COATINGS OR TREATMENT TO ACHIEVE ITS LIFE EXPECTANCY?
No. No special coating or other surface treatment is required. General maintenance in the form of good housekeeping should periodically be performed to remove debris and leaves and to investigate the performance of other components.

11. IS THE PERFORMANCE OF THE EPDM MEMBRANE ADVERSELY AFFECTED GEOGRAPHICALLY DUE TO TEMPERATURE EXTREMES?
In laboratory testing EPDM is subject to the most severe heat aging where samples are subjected to temperatures of 240 F for 4 weeks. Also, in several studies field samples were collected from various geographic locations after years of exposure and in both cases (laboratory and field), the physical properties of the samples exceeded the original ASTM specification. Presently, there are numerous EPDM installations throughout colder regions in the U.S. (i.e., Alaska, Minnesota) as well as in the hot and humid climates of southern Florida and Texas. For the past 25 years, EPDM has been the roofing membrane of choice for many commercial and manufacturing facilities internationally. The material will not shatter in extreme, cold temperatures and remains flexible under severe thermal shock such as in dessert areas where evenings are extremely cold and days extremely hot.

13. IS EPDM UV RESISTANT?
After more than two decades of field exposure in different climatic conditions, samples collected of EPDM membrane show no evidence of crazing or cracking. As a result of the excellent UV resistance, EPDM membrane can be warranted up to 30 years.

15. WHAT IS THE EXPECTED LONGEVITY OF EPDM MEMBRANE?
With many EPDM installations exceeding 40 years of exposure in the field under various climatic conditions, none of the material tested has shown alarming signs of degradation. Even though it would be difficult to predict, studies have shown aged EPDM membrane as having a potential life expectancy of 50 years.
****************************
Regular inspection and repair is necessary as seals and fastenings may deteriorate. A Travel Trailer TT isn't likely to outlive the 40 year service life of an EPDM roof.

Please do not coat your roof based upon your personal layman perception of what your trailer roof should look like. Listen to the experts.

Properly matched Dicor products are highly regarded for touch-up and seal repairs. Eternabond tape is another favorite.

vic

vic

[Rustic Eagle]

You will be just fine using Dicor and/or EternaBond products, and as far as "pin prick type holes" if you don't have any signs of moisture damage I wouldn't worry about them even being present.

The 23B has a flat roof (not pitched), and water has a tendency to pool around the roof A/C, confirm that the A/C gasket is keeping moisture from entering the HTT ceiling.

Bob

[Kennedy64]

It rained most of yesterday, I went into the TT and pressed all around the A/C and vents, all seems "stiff". I haven't been up on the roof yet, just from the side with a ladder, everywhere I pressed down also seemed firm. I'm hoping today I can get up there with the mop and bucket and wash it up and see what it looks like. This weekend, hubby said he'd help pull the A/C so we can replace that seal.
I'm probably being super paranoid, the trailer is 15 yrs old and I (we) are the type of people that keep everything until it is done. My last truck was a '00 Silverado that had 400,000 miles on it when I sold it to daughter and son-in-law.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Kennedy64

snip...... This weekend, hubby said he'd help pull the A/C so we can replace that seal.....snip

Depending on model/style of A/C, removing the A/C plastic cover from the interior ceiling will allow enough access to view the A/C seal area....., you can also check that the four (4) A/C mounting bolts/nuts are "snug" from this interior vantage point as well (NOTE: Tightening these bolts to tight will compromise the effectiveness of the A/C seal).

Bob

[booger78z28]

okay I have a 95 with the EPMD roof and it does have some worn spots on the membrane where ive seen it leak before ,..went to the trailer place and they gave me a gallon of rubber roof coating made for the Epdm roofs ....ummm

[booger78z28]

[VicS1950]

Originally Posted by booger78z28

If you believe the EPDM manufacturers and Jayco (I do), the Elixir Plas-T-Coat Rubber Roof product that you suggest is at best snake oil and at worst it will interfere with the proper bonding of any approved roof repair products. Some of the aftermarket EPDM coatings actually will work to shorten the life span of the membrane.

There's profit to be made. When in doubt, follow the money. I've noticed that many RV repair services make a bunch of money selling and applying roof coatings which the EPDM manufacturers say aren't needed.

That said, anyone can spend their money and, once out of warranty, can maintain their roof any way they choose. You really do risk getting denied warranty repairs by coating your roof while still under warranty.

vic

[booger78z28]

its way out of warranty and my membrane does have thin spots and wear spots where I can see thru it, which caused a leak, what now? lol...

[Kennedy64]

Originally Posted by booger78z28

its way out of warranty and my membrane does have thin spots and wear spots where I can see thru it, which caused a leak, what now? lol...

Mine too, so as I pondered this all day and talked to hubby, I figured what the heck, its 15 yrs old, no warranty, gray and thin, I'd rather be safe than sorry. I'd like to get as many years out of it as possible.

[booger78z28]

Kennedy , so what did you do,?...coat it?

[Jmooney]

given its age and condition, I say try option # 1: try the sealer. Worst case, you have to replace the roof which is option # 2 anyway.

[Kennedy64]

Originally Posted by booger78z28

Kennedy , so what did you do,?...coat it?

Nothing yet, just stopped raining LOL. I am hoping to start cleaning the roof tonight or tomorrow and start coating it on this weekend.

[VicS1950]

Originally Posted by booger78z28

... what now? lol...

First some questions.

Are you absolutely certain that the leaks are from your "thin spots"?

What do you base the "thin" spot assessment upon?

From my experience and research some EPDM membranes have a layered construction. That means that your membrane may have a white colored layer over a black layer of EPDM. The white layer can get thin while the black layer beneath is still serviceable and water tight. It appears that some RV roof membranes have that construction. Assessing membrane roof condition without previous experience can send you down the wrong path.

Perhaps it's time to get a professional inspection. But who to get? How many RV mechanics or sales people really have experience and can be considered roof experts?

Since you asked, I know what I would do.

Assuming an EPDM roof.
I would patch the "bad" areas using Eternabond tape. It comes in some pretty wide sizes. Be aware that the wider tape is a bit more finicky to apply because it needs to be kept in control to avoid wrinkles.

Why I wouldn't seal coat.

The sealer needs to be applied uniformly and bond correctly. It may bond well, but what if it doesn't? Once you coat the entire roof surface you can no longer properly inspect as the coating tends to hide problems and may interfere with patching even if you do pinpoint the problem(s).

If the EPDM is deteriorated to the point that spot patching is not practical then I think that you really are already to the point of option 2 replacement as mentioned previously. That said, remember that a layman may not be in a position to properly assess the situation.

I do need to disclose that my advice is based mostly om commercial EPDM roofing systems. I have only repaired a few travel trailer roofs to date. The basic experience should transfer though.

Perhaps some other members have experience and a recommendation for a tried and true sealer for an otherwise worn out roof? It certainly is tempting to just slop something on and walk away. Having never even seen your roof I certainly can't make the choice.

vic

[booger78z28]

well when I can see the plywood under the membrane in the "thin" spots I suppose it needs to be coated or something, and the previous owner has tape everywhere already..if we are looking at option 2 ,..ballpark what does it usually cost,...btw they are a few soft spots on top where I can tell the wood is not good , but has been taped all to hell, but it shows no water damage inside yet,...just saw a seam on roof right under a soft spot that was taped over ,leaking one day after a good rain...

[VicS1950]

Originally Posted by booger78z28

well when I can see the plywood under the membrane in the "thin" spots I suppose it needs to be coated or something, and the previous owner has tape everywhere already..if we are looking at option 2 ,..ballpark what does it usually cost,...btw they are a few soft spots on top where I can tell the wood is not good , but has been taped all to hell, but it shows no water damage inside yet,...just saw a seam on roof right under a soft spot that was taped over ,leaking one day after a good rain...

Ok.

That sounds pretty grim. I have no idea as to replacement cost. A travel trailer is relatively small as compared to membrane building roof sizes. You may be able to buy an end of roll, or maybe even properly sized piece of membrane from a commercial roofer at decent price. Proper installation will take some effort and technique.

Sounds like you're in the same boat as I am with my 2001. It is fine for our use, but only worth so much even if it were completely restored. To me our 23b Kiwi is not really worth any grand repairs whether in effort or cost. I did a bunch of "fixes" to deal with the water damage to the wall and floor of my trailer. Fortunately my roof is in very good condition overall. My roof leak was at the right front corner transition from membrane to outer skin. That corner and some other questionable areas were addressed using Dicor products and Eternabond tape.

There were people who quickly recommend dealership repairs or other costly options. I guess even if roof replacement is the proper answer, it doesn't necessarily fit for your situation.

Based upon your added information I would explore whether there are sealants which can be used with a re-enforcing mesh or screen of some type. I mention that because any sealer will only be as good as the structure it bonds to. What you describe with the seam doesn't sound all that stable. A mesh re-enforcement will at least help to deal with some shifting of the substrate. The soft spots don't sound good though.

Another possibility might be to use large pieces of EPDM glued down as patches in the bad sections. Again, smaller pieces of membrane might be available at a local roofer. Contact cement from a home repair box store is probably not up to the task.There is glue which is designed to bond and seal the membrane patches. A DIY option might be to use contact cement for the patch with Eternabond used as a seal around the perimeter. If you use the patch suggestion I would give any corners a bit of radius rather than cutting them square.

Sorry I can't offer more. Good luck. vic