Atwood 8500 LD series furnace

[tnchuck100]

I like to read the manuals that come with things I purchase so as to be familiar with their operation and how to determine problems should they arise.

Just a heads up for any one that experiences problems with the Atwood 8500 LD series furnace. An 8520 LD is used in the 2012 Jay Flight 22FB. Probably many other campers as well. The furnace is mounted under the sofa.

Others of the same design can be determined by the characteristic of having only a 4 X 4 inch air intake/exhaust port for the furnace. No access door is on the outside of the trailer.

To the point. The manual describes a LED on its control board that is capable of flashing error codes should a problem with the furnace occur. Sounds great, right? Similar to what you get with the Atwood refrigerators. No, not really. The problem is that the LED on these units cannot be seen unless you remove the furnace. This is according to Jayco customer service as relayed from Atwood.

So, if you have problems with these units you can expect a hefty labor charge just to find out what is wrong.

[firestorm128d]

Originally Posted by tnchuck100

I like to read the manuals that come with things I purchase so as to be familiar with their operation and how to determine problems should they arise.

Just a heads up for any one that experiences problems with the Atwood 8500 LD series furnace. An 8520 LD is used in the 2012 Jay Flight 22FB. Probably many other campers as well. The furnace is mounted under the sofa.

Others of the same design can be determined by the characteristic of having only a 4 X 4 inch air intake/exhaust port for the furnace. No access door is on the outside of the trailer.

To the point. The manual describes a LED on its control board that is capable of flashing error codes should a problem with the furnace occur. Sounds great, right? Similar to what you get with the Atwood refrigerators. No, not really. The problem is that the LED on these units cannot be seen unless you remove the furnace. This is according to Jayco customer service as relayed from Atwood.

So, if you have problems with these units you can expect a hefty labor charge just to find out what is wrong.

So i just got my brand new 2015 23MB trailer home, and it is well below freezing now. I turned on the furnace and it has issues. It starts, lights runs for 2 mins and the gas valve closes, and heat stops. The fans keep running full tilt. Then about 2 mins later the gas valve opens and it relights. this cycle goes on all day, and it takes hours to bring up the temp high enough that the Tstat shuts it off. It sounds like it is "limiting out". So like you I grab the manual. First of all this one is under the stove top, but you cannot get to the panel or the name plate at all. You cannot see the LED readout either. So there is no way to see the code that it is posting. However The have only two ducts attached 4" each. They are both attached to the right side of the unit. The manual that they provided clearly states that you MUST ATTACH a duct to both LEFT AND RIGHT hand sides, when the front ducts are NOT being used. Clearly they did not install this unit to the Manufactures requirements which is both dangerous and makes it impossible to service. I am fortunately under warranty, but this is a design flaw and Jayco needs to address these issues.

I cannot even determine exactly what model i have in my unit. the manual covers 12 different units with way varying requirements and capabilities. There is no way to see the tag, i have looked but this thing is buried in a hole. and I would have to remove it completely. I don't know how you can troubleshoot properly on a unit you have to remove just to get to the panel on. This is just plain WRONG. And I would go as far to say this was intentional to increase service fees down the road!!

If when I call the dealership tomorrow do not get quick results I will not hesitate to contact my lawyer.

[firestorm128d]

How the heck can I apply for an extended warranty when I cannot get to my serial number? You cannot complete even half of the "Yearly Maintenance" Required by Atwood in their manual, because you cannot get to the furnace. This is BS!!! Seriously thinking about calling a lawyer now and skipping the formalities! Class action anyone?

[ALJO]

When having a outside door, service will be easier and also will show the model# and SN# plus the LED's will be visible. It is a slight cost saving on the part of Jayco to not install the door.
It only takes about 15 minutes to remove the furnace but is a bit awkward if you have the Jay-Steel-Sofa in place. Just remove the seat (4 nuts) and the furnace is easy accessible.
Remove the wood cover if applicable. Disconnect the gas line (be sure valve is closed
at the LPG Bottle) and electrical wiring (mark down where they go). Disconnect 4 flex hoses and 2 screws on the front and the furnace will slide towards you. The furnace can be bench tested if you have the proper misc. materials. Installation is in reverse order (be sure steel flue pipe and outside air intake is fitted properly).
If you are not familiar with how a furnace operates, then it is better to leave this to a qualified professional.
Not be able to see the LED's is a design flaw on the part of ATWOOD. All it would take is a wiring assembly with LED's fasten to the outlet box side of the furnace. So it is visible.
Aha......another cost saving on part of ATWOOD. When ATWOOD receives enough complaints about this, they might implement the change?

[firestorm128d]

Thank you for the reply. But before you go into a description of how easy it is to only remove a couple screws and access the unit. You should probably familiarize yourself to this particular model of trailer. It's up under the stove, and is clearly (I invite you also to read the installation manual) not installed in accordance to Atwoods requirements.

Since it is installed in such a place it cannot be easily accessed. Jayco should have used the other modle with the access door. That is specifically notated in the installation directions.

None of the warning labels, or serial/ model number plates are visible. Or readable, nor can you preform the required maintenance procedures. Jayco had two options: 1 since they buried the unit go with a access door unit. 2 not bury the unit and use the model that was supplied. Lets not forget again this is AS PER ATWOODS requirements. Which also would meet the approval of the regulatory commissions. Violating those installation procedures would likely NOT be approved.

Also it is still not ducted properly as per same manual.

So again before you go telling me I don't know what I am talking about you might want to check your facts!

[Paintinfool3]

Well I hope you get it resolved .... There are it seems a number of things that don't get completely thought through on the assembly of the units .... The question is who isn't thinking it through? I agree that in this case the serial number and led ought to be visible , that would only make sense. Mine is in cabinet by the kitchen sink under the converter assembly and frankly I haven't looked at it or how it was ducted but now I might .... It did seem to work ok when we used it and I don't remember it cycling like that. I also think they ought to list which of the units it is somewhere in the paperwork ... A lot of the manuals have 3 or four possible models they cover which gives one way to many possibilitys to go wrong in troubleshooting. I have resigned myself to make the mods necessary to make mine serviceable myself, because I don't always trust someone else to know how I want it, but I can feel your pain. good luck

[ALJO]

Firestorm128d aren't you over reacting a bit. Don't see to many joining you for a Class action lawsuit?
The facts are; Jayco installs their Atwood furnace units according to requirements otherwise their would have been recalls. Jayco I am sure would avoid risking the chance on lawsuits.
Could Atwood and Jayco do better on their products........the answer is YES.
Before installation when they open the box their are extra mod# and SN# stickers in the box and should have been attached to the manual and or visible on the furnace.
If it is bothering you why not give Jayco a call in a calmly matter, I am sure they like the input of their customers.
Myself I would have rather a door too for service sing, but the fact is I haven't so I either live with it or buy a door assembly. Even with the door assembly you still have to go outside for reading the LED's. For major service the furnace still have to be removed. Is it something I get excited about NO.
Well as Paintinfool3 said; Well I hope you get it resolved ....

[firestorm128d]

Update on the situation:

I am going to address several of the comments to my posts as well.

The dealership looked at and attempted to resolve the problem. As per their technician the Furnace IS NOT installed according to Atwoods requirements for this model of furnace. Therefor it is overheating and shutting down, via the limit switch. They however "Cannot correct the problem" because of how and where the unit is installed in the trailer. The certified technician has alerted Jayco to the "DESIGN FLAW" as he called it. And are awaiting a response to the problem.

As for the comment about me "over reacting". Lets get something strait, if it were not for the build in limit switch this unit would have overheated to the point of catching on fire. This is not some old use trailer i picked up. Its brand new 2015 this kind of a problem is in excusable. It not a defective part, its a defective design!

Lets also consider "Recalls" - According to your reasoning the GM recall would have happened long before there were some 30+ Fatalities!!!! Since this is a new model trailer how many of them do you think are out there? And of those how many have the specific options that I ordered? Maybe a few hundred or less! That being said how many of those owners loaded there entire family in to their trailer in sub freezing conditions, and know enough about Gas Furnace operations to know that it was not functioning properly?

There are two different configurations to this model of furnace for a reason from Atwood - One with an outside door, and one without. The one without is so designed for installation where you would have access to the top, and at least one side of the unit. That is why they have all the warning sticker on the TOP & SIDE of the unit. The one with a hatch is so designed for situations where the unit gets installed into a hole where you would NOT have access to the top and or sides. That being said, this unit should NEVER been installed in its current location. This is NOT a inefficiency on Atwoods part. And AS I CLEARLY POINTED OUT EARLIER - The "Installation Manual" that was in the box clearly states the installation requirements for this model Furnace. Those requirements are NOT being met. Clearly a life safety violation and goes completely against RIVA requirements...

You want to give me a warning that my account is going to get suspended because I am posting less than gracious things about this trailer so be it! Suspend my account! Bury this problem like GM, Toyota & Honda! Its great I have the emails. And I am waiting for Jayco to call me back about this too... Where are they???

[ALJO]

That issues like this should be corrected is only fair and you should be able in good manner to speak your peace on this forum.
Yes Jayco and Atwood should seriously look at those complaints from Jayco owners.
And yes the way they installed the furnace, owners of Jayco Units can't see the LED's on certain model Atwood furnaces.............it is ridicules. It is like installing the instrument panel of a vehicle under the hood. It is a serious enough matter that should be deal with by Jayco and Atwood. Otherwise I hope you get more support on this forum. I am sure you are not the only one what has problems with this Atwood furnace. I did, but solved the problem myself.
I am sure Jayco will get back to you when they have the answers for this problem.
Please let us know how things get resolved for you.

[firestorm128d]

Originally Posted by ALJO

That issues like this should be corrected is only fair and you should be able in good manner to speak your peace on this forum.
Yes Jayco and Atwood should seriously look at those complaints from Jayco owners.
And yes the way they installed the furnace, owners of Jayco Units can't see the LED's on certain model Atwood furnaces.............it is ridicules. It is like installing the instrument panel of a vehicle under the hood. It is a serious enough matter that should be deal with by Jayco and Atwood. Otherwise I hope you get more support on this forum. I am sure you are not the only one what has problems with this Atwood furnace. I did, but solved the problem myself.
I am sure Jayco will get back to you when they have the answers for this problem.
Please let us know how things get resolved for you.

I know i come off as a bit of a jerk.. For that I do apologize! I do appreciate that everyone here is trying to be helpful. For the record this is my second new Jayco Trailer. My 2011 which i just traded in had all kinds of Furnace issues out of the gate and it took 2 years to get it straitened out. I don't take this to be a blight on the Brand. I truly believe that with the Jay+ Warranty Jayco is a great deal for the price tag. Sure its no Winnebago or Tiffin but they are also half the cost. Its just frustrating that I cannot seam to get any kind of urgency in response. The dealership is good to work with, but also very difficult. They lost my trailer, and then told me that it was all frozen up because I didn't winterize it properly. I laughed and said that would be their problem since they just winterized it as i picked it up the week before new! Then they called me back to say that they had the wrong guy. And that they could not find my trailer in their yard. The next day I got a call from the service guy asking me why my trailer was in his shop? This is after the 4th phone call and coming in where i explained the problem. In their defense the service manager went on vacation the week we went from 50 degree nights to 10 degree nights. So needless to say they were not having a good week.

So they then told me as i above posted that it was installed wrong, not enough air flow... etc. So they moved one of the ducts to the front and that solved the overheat. But he did not bother to check it after he re-installed the grill and forced the discharge hose that is 4" in diameter into a 2.5" space between the face of the air box and the grill. So i took it home, which i had to do during work hours because they are not open after 5. I fired it up and it ran for 4 mins instead of 2 before overheating and cutting off again.

So when i called them Monday morning and talked to the service manager about the whole problem again. He agreed after consulting the installation manual that this installation is completely improper and with the way the cabinet is built this unit is never going to get the air flow it needs. He called Jayco and promised he would call me back first thing in the morning Tuesday... And of course he did not... and I have called and complained to the Jayco service line only to be referred back to my nearest local service center whom they also wont seam to help. So you can see why i am so frustrated!

Then on top of all of this. I ordered the "Thermal Package" which is supposed to come with "Insulated, heated and enclosed underbelly, foil insulation in roof and slideout floors". And I am being told by the service manager that there is no duct going into the floor. And there is no heated underbelly!

I am just shocked at the lack of urgency to take care of a loyal customer... That's really what this is all about.

[namusmc65]

Interesting thread. I am learning more all the time. My 2014 33.5RETS has a buried furnace with no access door as well. You could not get to the unit at all. I have had a problem right out the door with this heater not lighting and having to remove power to the unit to get the ingniter to shut down. Once it was figured out that the control board was bad, the unit had to be removed. There had to be a rather large hole cut in the forward basement area next to the furnace to remove it. Gas lines and vent hoses all had to be disconnected and the unit removed. A 20 minute control board replacement took up to 3 1/2 hours to replace. I need to read the manual on my furnace because there is no way you can see any led lights and I believe my discharge is all on one side of the unit, which could lead to overheating it sounds like. My unit has not shut off from this, by the way. Lots of things to look at as we are leaving next month for a 10 day trip in some cold weather and the furnace will really be getting a work out.

[firestorm128d]

Originally Posted by namusmc65

Interesting thread. I am learning more all the time. My 2014 33.5RETS has a buried furnace with no access door as well. You could not get to the unit at all. I have had a problem right out the door with this heater not lighting and having to remove power to the unit to get the ingniter to shut down. Once it was figured out that the control board was bad, the unit had to be removed. There had to be a rather large hole cut in the forward basement area next to the furnace to remove it. Gas lines and vent hoses all had to be disconnected and the unit removed. A 20 minute control board replacement took up to 3 1/2 hours to replace. I need to read the manual on my furnace because there is no way you can see any led lights and I believe my discharge is all on one side of the unit, which could lead to overheating it sounds like. My unit has not shut off from this, by the way. Lots of things to look at as we are leaving next month for a 10 day trip in some cold weather and the furnace will really be getting a work out.

That sounds like a nightmare too.. To be fair though, I don't know the exact model of your furnace. I don't know the exact model of my furnace yet either. But I suspect that maybe this ducting requirement of not coming out only on the right side, may only be on certain models. I have never seen that before, so unless it is specifically notated in the manual that was supplied to you at the time of purchase that probably not going to be a problem for you. I am no expert by any stretch - by all means check with your service center on that. If its not limiting out right now, you should be clear on that problem. These furnaces are pretty much bullet proof. As long as they are installed and maintained properly. I wish you safe and Warm journeys!

Admittedly i think my furnace is easier to remove than that! Yikes! With most electronics if a board is going to fail its in the first 6 months. Although that is very rare i think for an Atwood furnace. Both Atwood and Suburban make some of the highest quality stuff when it comes to RVing. Albeit i don't know of any other manufactures of RV Furnaces!

Please keep us posted on the situation. I am going to go take a virtual tour of that model rig and see if I can see the furnace location!

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by firestorm128d

Then on top of all of this. I ordered the "Thermal Package" which is supposed to come with "Insulated, heated and enclosed underbelly, foil insulation in roof and slideout floors". And I am being told by the service manager that there is no duct going into the floor. And there is no heated underbelly!

There may not be a duct as such, but there may be a hole cut into the metal duct work. They also rely on the radiated heat from the metal duct to help warm the underbelly.

[ALJO]

Anyone who has concerns about their furnace operations should mention it here. I hoop Jayco is monitoring this forum, at least they will know what is going on with their family. It is always best to forward concerns to Jayco by email so you have proof of what has been said. Keep a record of them. All manufactures need feed back from their customers to improve their products. You also can forward an email to the accessory manufacturer. Just take in consideration that nothing will happen overnight. Be gentle and firm with your concerns. If your problem is not solved and it is an safety issue, then as a last resort contact the proper safety authorities.

[firestorm128d]

Originally Posted by ALJO

Anyone who has concerns about their furnace operations should mention it here. I hoop Jayco is monitoring this forum, at least they will know what is going on with their family. It is always best to forward concerns to Jayco by email so you have proof of what has been said. Keep a record of them. All manufactures need feed back from their customers to improve their products. You also can forward an email to the accessory manufacturer. Just take in consideration that nothing will happen overnight. Be gentle and firm with your concerns. If your problem is not solved and it is an safety issue, then as a last resort contact the proper safety authorities.

That is sound advice and I admittedly am a little impatient with the situation. We were suppose to have family for a couple of weeks with us and those plans are in shambles with the un-useable heater. I started my rant because I thought this might be a good way to tell if I were alone in this struggle. Which hopefully I am, but also hopefully Jay will also take note of the pleas for assistance.

Thank you for your post.

[firestorm128d]

I looked up the 33.5REtS that is a very nice rig. From the photos on Jayco.com you have the furnace under the fridge. And I assume the ducts go under the floor? Does that mean your unit sits on the floor or is it elevated on a shelf? If its ducted into the floor you should have proper airflow per Atwood's requirements if you have one of the Excalibur units as well. However very crappy to service and impossible to properly maintenance.

I kind of wonder if that is intentional so you have to pay more for service and even a semi savy guy would have to pay to have even basic yearly maintenance dun? There are probably 50 other locations they could have installed that. Granted you have a bunch of slides that are not appliance friendly. And that would likely have been wasted space otherwise. But it just seams intentionally under engineered.

[firestorm128d]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

There may not be a duct as such, but there may be a hole cut into the metal duct work. They also rely on the radiated heat from the metal duct to help warm the underbelly.

Interesting... I don't know how the system should look. But the ducts that are there do not go below deck. They go strait out the ends of the cabinets. The unit itself is elevated on a platform. This gave them the ability to 180degree the duct out (literally crimping the duct) the right hand side, down and under the furnace unit through a undersized hole into under the fridge behind the converter and out of the far left end of the kitchen cabinet in front of the lav sink. Nothing goes under the deck, no duct. If they did run the ducts under the deck and then back up I could certainly see how the radiant heat would warm the underbelly and tanks. That is actually what I assumed I was buying.

Anyone know how I can post pictures off a cell phone to the forum?

[Paintinfool3]

Well to the underbelly insulation in my 338 rets there is not a lot . I have had the corrugated underside down 3 times to date working on a problem with my fresh water tanks equalizing and the insulation is very scarce on mine it has a row of what looks like 3 inch wall insulation stuck to the bottom of tanks and that's about it .... Maybe so air can flow down there but not fully insulated for sure ....my furnace is under my kitchen cabinet below the converter and it looks like intake vent must be behind a wooden grate fastened to cabinet ... I do remember it acted a little weird when I fired it but I can't remember how much it cycled the heat .... We just used it long enough to warm the bedroom in the front of the camper then used the electric fireplace the rest of the weekend to keep the chill off. Maybe since I have it in for warranty work I ought to have them run it and make sure it is working properly .

[norty1]

Originally Posted by firestorm128d

Anyone know how I can post pictures off a cell phone to the forum?

Download the Tapatalk app. It will allow you to do many things on the forum and real easy to upload pictures.

[namusmc65]

Originally Posted by norty1

Download the Tapatalk app. It will allow you to do many things on the forum and real easy to upload pictures.

You can also just email the picture to yourself, from your phone, then open your email from your computer and save the picture you sent to your hard disk. That way you will have them to post on this forum from your computer. Hope that helps.