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Old 07-24-2017, 08:13 AM   #1
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Build quality is starting to depress me...

I am slowly getting to the point where I am saying I will not replace my Jayco with a Jayco. For an MSRP of over $230k, they really need to make a better quality unit than this. The third party stuff that they put in I really have no problem with, in fact really like it. The Onan Generator with the energy command 30 controller is awesome, the freightliner chassis also awesome. Inverter, microwave, macerator, heck I even like my Girard water heater! But the things that torque me off are all related to the engineers and builders who designed and built the thing. I cannot believe how many corners are cut and how many things were not inspected. Here is so far my list of piss me offs...
  • Door slide supports break or falls off with the slightest push on them. I fixed this by replacing with thicker and harder wood and using screws instead of brad nails to hold them in place.
  • 37FS bunk supports. The bed is supposed to be rated at 300lbs. I can tell you that no one over 200 has laid in it and yet the supports fall out. I pull the drawer under the bed to find the supports are actually hung up by staples! I corrected their error by putting in L brackets to support it. (see attached pics)
  • Closet rod is mounted to close to the wall of the unit...all standard size hangers hang my clothes at an angle because the hangers touch the wall.
  • Lower drawer under bunks did not have any support. I had my 7 year olds clothes in there...thats it. That was all it took to pull the 4 staples out of the bottom they put in. Fixed by using screws to hold in place. It would have taken them no additional time to dovetail the board into the sides, but it was easier to just brad it to the bottom of it.
  • Rails are not straight on drawer under bunks. When you close the drawer, the left hand side closes and latches, but the right hand side sticks out a half an inch or so and never latches...this tells me they did not mount the rails perpendicular to the face.
  • Kitchen cabinets...the drawers are mounted to the hinges like crap. Multiple doors have come off the hinge...I think it may be related to the insane springs they are using. I can see this on the big doors, but they are using the same spring on the smaller doors too and I think this is too much pressure.
  • Exterior doors and other plastics lining up...A few basement door latches were not lined up. I was able to open a few doors even if they were locked. My passenger side cab step was put in place where the gas cap actually touches it on the bottom...that is a pain to get off sometimes.

And the list goes on. It bugs me that we spend as much as a house on these and if this was the quality that we got in our house, we would be suing people, but we accept this in our RV's.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:35 AM   #2
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To be honest with you, your example is one of the big reasons I'm hesitating getting back into the whole RV thing. I feel incredibly blessed/lucky that once we decided to move on from our coach, we were able to consign and sell/close in 2 weeks. I mean, WOW. Then I read about all the issues some of you have and I think back how lucky I was with the rig I no longer have. For example, the cabinet doors might be hardwood (might), but the sidewalls to all my cabinets was pressboard garbage. I mean, really? My bathroom door? Pressboard garbage.

And my rig wasn't even built when Thor owned Jayco. I had small issues here and there that I was able to repair myself, but I also pampered the heck out of it and paid to protect it (covered storage). I feel awful for the fellow forum member w/ a delamanating back wall b/c of his marker lights on a 'new' rig. There are just so many opportunities for something to go 'wrong'.

I have grave concerns about rig quality at this point, be it Jayco or a Forest River product. Its stuff like you point out that makes me very leery.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:41 AM   #3
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Welcome to the RV world. Didn't they tell you the RV industry is what it is? They can't build them fast enough to keep up with the demand. You can apply for warranty repairs or DIY. No matter what company you buy from they are all the same. No matter if a unit is over 200K or 25K they build them with the same speed. When you buy new expect to have warranty issues. I'm 50 years into RVing and yes it is now worse of this demand.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:47 AM   #4
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I can symphatise with you...I have a 2017 greyhawk MV and I consider myself a craftsman,worked with my hands my whole life.MY cabinets are holding up so far,and its seems to be a fairly solid unit,hope i dont jinx it.Had a couple of issues with the drawers in the bed room staples pulling out,fixed with screws the way it should have been.The greyhawks are made in a different location I think,maybe there quality control is better than the Seneca line.Maybe they actually have people who take pride in there work.For the money we pay for these motorhomes you would think they could use screws,better hardware,and take some pride in there work.OR are the workers driven like slaves by there bosses to hurry to the next unit?????
WE were thinking of upgrading to a Seneca,but the high price and loss on our Greyhawk trade in is not in the cards at this time.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:49 AM   #5
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From what I have read in Elkhart they get paid by the unit, not the hour. And they don't get dinged for shoddy work. So the workers flock to the factory, bang out their allotment for the day as fast as they can, then leave early and have the rest of the day off.

That's a recipe for shoddy work.
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:11 AM   #6
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Across the internet there is such an up-tick of threads and articles of complaints about RV quality, indifferent or overwhelmed dealers that I wonder if this will catch up with the industry?

My wife and I currently have and enjoy our very reliable 2013 26RLS. We have been RVing for 15 years or so owning three units. We just looked at drivable units for possible future purchase. Like the previous poster, I left thinking that I'm not sure I will be willing to put my money into a new RV. How many others will feel the same if something is not done? How many young families who purchase a problematic first RV will not "upgrade" to that second or third RV like so many of us did?

I do believe Jayco used to be a cut-above. They may still be but I think they too are suffering and the problems extend from their entry level RVs up to their Entegra line.

If the industry does suffer, they will have no one to blame but themselves.
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:19 AM   #7
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If you look at Jayco's promotional video on how they build them, the employees are almost running doing their work. I'm amazed they even present that as something their proud of. Staples and brad nails everywhere for their speed and cheapness. My 2017 31fs is no different than my 96 Eagle; I find cutoff pieces of wire and and wire nuts under the bunk drawers laying on the floor. The strain relief inserts falling out of their holes. The shower obviously cannot support the weight of a person and needs to be reinforced underneath. Was exactly the same with my 96. I'm really thankful that at least the electrical seems to be fine, the rest I'll take care of this winter. The bunk area I'm going to remodel similar to a Sunseeker design. It seems when they build these rigs the emphasis is to please the eye of the beholder and that's it. I'll go through it methodically, I'll make it right, but I can see the frustration of having paid for a Seneca and there's little to no difference in build quality.
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:22 AM   #8
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RyRoRyan, we echo your frustration. We recently purchased our first motorhome and have been on two short trips. The third party items are all working just fine. Like you, we are seeing more and more shoddy workmanship. Shower stall pulling away from the wall thus separating the caulking from the tub; tub around the drain is very flimsy (no support underneath - read this from others here on JOF as well), entry steps into motorhome separating, wall covering near bed separating, mirror on bathroom held on by a sticky backing that separates from the head in the Nevada desert (Las Vegas), and so on. Thankfully, with the two year warranty on the motorhome from Jayco our dealer is fixing all of these things.

However, JAYCO should spend a little more time on these details. Good products result in happy customers who tend to come back and upgrade to bigger units in the future.
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Old 07-24-2017, 11:02 AM   #9
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It is the small things that matter to me. The wood build quality really gets me for sure. But then there are other things that make me go REALLY, WTH were you thinking actually putting this in like this. I forgot to show this one earlier, but check this out...I have a queen headboard and a kingsize bed...100% came this way.

Also, those little plastic things the put on the front of the shelves...why were NONE of them glued on? They just fall off when something touches it.

I am seriously thinking about Renegade if I stay with Super C or Winnebago or Newmar if I go DP for the next one.
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Old 07-24-2017, 11:23 AM   #10
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After getting a close up look at how the storage area under the bed and pass through was put together one can see very well how that much haste causes many build imperfections. On the Jay Flights, the pass through storage and the under bed storage is one large open area. I did like that, but I knew it when I bought the 23RB. I also knew after purchase I was going to fix that. I constructed a partition between the under bed storage and the pass through. I also cut the bed platform that raised up to get to the under bed storage. I permanently sealed the pass through storage area. Now the bed platform hinges where the under bed storage is. But in doing this, the results of building a trailer in a day become very obvious. The thing is, Jayco isn't the only manufacturer that does this.

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Originally Posted by t18skyguy View Post
If you look at Jayco's promotional video on how they build them, the employees are almost running doing their work. I'm amazed they even present that as something their proud of. Staples and brad nails everywhere for their speed and cheapness. My 2017 31fs is no different than my 96 Eagle; I find cutoff pieces of wire and and wire nuts under the bunk drawers laying on the floor. The strain relief inserts falling out of their holes. The shower obviously cannot support the weight of a person and needs to be reinforced underneath. Was exactly the same with my 96. I'm really thankful that at least the electrical seems to be fine, the rest I'll take care of this winter. The bunk area I'm going to remodel similar to a Sunseeker design. It seems when they build these rigs the emphasis is to please the eye of the beholder and that's it. I'll go through it methodically, I'll make it right, but I can see the frustration of having paid for a Seneca and there's little to no difference in build quality.
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Old 07-24-2017, 02:38 PM   #11
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You make me glad I did not upgrade in hopes of a better built rv. I have a Greyhawk. I was shocked when i found the supports under the table benches was laminated styrofoam but now am shocked at nothing when it comes to how cheaply made this thing is. I am constantly finding nuts and bolts from who knows where. I am planning to take a carpentry class just so I can build a new sturdy table unit. Also need to rebuild the drawers under the bunk as the bottom came loose and cannot fix without disassembing it. I dont think i will be buying a Jayco the next time. I actually thought this would be my rv for life when i got it last year. Now I am trying to figure out when i can trade it in.
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Old 07-24-2017, 03:00 PM   #12
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You make me glad I did not upgrade in hopes of a better built rv. I have a Greyhawk. I was shocked when i found the supports under the table benches was laminated styrofoam but now am shocked at nothing when it comes to how cheaply made this thing is. I am constantly finding nuts and bolts from who knows where. I am planning to take a carpentry class just so I can build a new sturdy table unit. Also need to rebuild the drawers under the bunk as the bottom came loose and cannot fix without disassembing it. I dont think i will be buying a Jayco the next time. I actually thought this would be my rv for life when i got it last year. Now I am trying to figure out when i can trade it in.
Welcome to the forum.

Take the carpentry class and you can make your Greyhawk your RV for life. If you look, you'll find that all similar units from all RV manufacturers suffer from similar problems.

IMO, don't sweat finding loose nuts and bolts. They came from the assembly person that dropped it and grabbed another from his/her pouch rather than take the time to search for it. Back in the day, I found nuts and bolts (plus coffee cups etc.) inside door panels of new GM cars.
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Old 07-24-2017, 03:10 PM   #13
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For life? It can be for a long time, do your mods, repair and maintenance. All manufactures have similar issues, so it doesn't matter with brand you buy. So far I'm very happy with my Jayco, I just made it my own brand the way I wanted.
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Old 07-24-2017, 03:16 PM   #14
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I am slowly getting to the point where I am saying I will not replace my Jayco with a Jayco.....
I feel your pain RyRoRyan ... here is an Email I sent to Jayco concerning our new 2017 Eagle HT 27.5RKDS, this was after an inquiry concerning the location of the fresh water over-flow tube:

1. The upper cabinet on the back wall was missing the bottom shelf. With this shelf gone, the lower facia material would have never supported much of anything and the wires to the light under the facia were exposed because of the missing shelf. I was able to add a piece of plywood that remedied the issue.

2. The screen door handle was about to fall off. The two screws that holds the handle on the door were stripped. Actually, the screw holes were stripped. I was able to put in larger sheet metal screws to fix that issue.

3. The faux stainless panel on the refrigerator was cut slightly too short. I was able to put a shim under the panel that raised the panel up enough to catch behind the channel that it fits in.

4. The bathroom vanity mirror was attached to the vanity door at least ½" out of level. I was able to carefully peel the mirror off the door and reattach properly leveled.

5. Since I have spent some time under the Eagle, I can tell you that the under-belly is just plain messy. It looks like a profile picture of the Smokey Mountains. There are a couple of places where a good-sized cat could crawl into the under-belly also. Our entry level Coleman had an enclosed under-belly also and it was extremely smooth from front to back and didn't have any "open" places for creatures to find.

6. While under the Eagle, I have found no less than a half dozen screws that didn't do anything. A couple of them were about to fall out and who knows how many might have fallen out during our 140-mile drive from the dealership.

7. The other day when I was checking the Eagle out for our 1st upcoming camping trip, I turned on the bedroom AC. After about 2 minutes, it shut down. Its 90 degrees outside and probably 85 degrees inside the camper with the thermostat set at 75. So, I went to the thermostat and "fiddled" with it a bit and the unit came back on. I sat there on the bed for a couple of
minutes and the unit shut down. Hmmmm ... the AC vents on the face of the AC (bedroom AC) were open (on purpose) and I noticed that one of the vents blows directly on the thermostat giving it a "false" room temperature reading. So, I closed that vent and all was well. Jayco should have put the thermostat on the same wall that the bedroom door hinges on which would eliminate that vent from blowing directly on the thermostat.

8. This is a BIG issue ... Our Eagle came with the automatic levelers (a big plus in my book) and they work really well. The problem with them is the height above ground for the rear levelers. 6" is all I got with it attached to my 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD. That's somewhat low in my opinion. The rear leveler brackets cannot be raised any higher without
punching a hole through the floor. Now, I know you are probably thinking that the unit is nose high. Well, yes you are right. My fifth wheel hitch is at its lowest setting and the MorRyde pin box is on its highest position. The only thing that can be done is replace the 15" tires/wheels on the Eagle with 16" tires/wheels. This would raise the “unit” some. Also, I could lower the units’ springs down to the bottom hole of the perch bracket. A little more thought on Jayco's part would have seen this issue. Shorter levelers by a couple inches would remedy this problem.

9. The last issue is one that revolves around the design engineer. While on my quest to find “things” on our Eagle, I began to wonder where the manual over-ride for the main slide was. Checked all around the perimeter of the unit and didn’t see anything that resembled a way to manually bring the slide in if/when there is a motor failure. So, under the unit I go again. Didn’t really see anything there either except a peculiar place in the under-belly material that looked like a patch that was about 2’x3’ and secured with about 10 screws (2 of which were not doing anything). Low and behold, after removing the panel, there was the motor for the slide with the ability to use a 5/8” socket to manually retract the slide. The engineer that designed this should have his/her degree torn to shreds. They could have at least designed an extension handle that one could insert through a hole in the frame that would allow manual over-ride.

Ashley, you have been a trooper through my search for the fresh water over-flow tube and I am not, by any means, directing my rant at you. Perhaps, my expectations were way too high in our purchase of what I remembered as a premier travel trailer company. In following several Internet Forums, it seems that these quality control issues are across the board in not only Jayco but most other manufacturers. BTW, I do not believe that our dealer was responsible for any of the issues I pointed out. Nor do I think any dealer goes over these units with a fine-tooth comb like the end-user does.
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:03 PM   #15
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Seems like anything not easily view-able appears to be where most of my hidden gems are located. I saw plenty of shortcuts while taking apart my dinette (upgrading to loungers). Here was a pic of the support beam and the underside after removal. Did I already have termites? Maybe they just grabbed a wooden pallet and threw one of the planks on there. How does this pass inspection? However, it's not like a purchased a Mercedes or anything....

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Old 07-25-2017, 05:30 AM   #16
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I'm sorry you feel like you were mislead on the quality of RV's. Shoddy workmanship is hardly an excuse, but the desire to keep weight low is one of the things the consumer demands. And to keep weight manageable, light weight material is used. Trying to keep this politically correct, which is a problem in itself, but unrealistic goals governs so much of what is available in the market.

I have to agree with others. Find something close to what you want and then build to meet your own standards of craftmenship. We ended with a color scheme that reminds me of an oil spill, but had the interior the wife desired. She has what she wanted and I get to travel and live a simpler life, sometimes.
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:55 AM   #17
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I don't believe low weight / light weight materials and shoddy craftsmanship go hand in hand. The OP posted his bunk supports that are supposed to support 300 pounds fastened together w/ heavy duty staples. That's pure garbage no matter how you cut it. Light weight doesn't have to mean crap assembly.
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Old 07-25-2017, 07:15 AM   #18
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Yes...I agree that lightweight materials should not mean shoddy workmanship. I dont mind the use of soft, light wood to keep the weight down, but at least secure it correctly. You can build something light and strong at the same time...and it does not even cost more to do it. Actually it might cost them more to do it crappy as they are going to be paying the dealers to fix it down the road.
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Old 07-25-2017, 07:17 AM   #19
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Looking around your camper is like looking around a kitchen at a restaurant. You WILL find things that scare you
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Old 07-29-2017, 12:58 AM   #20
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Here was a pic of the support beam and the underside after removal.
Our kids are big, teenagers, and that poor dinette didn't survive a season. I've reinforced those supports and added new ones from 2x4's.

The laminated stryofoam panels failed this weekend - so that's on the to do list.

Child #3 over stuffed the drawer and the bottom is broken out.



And then, I managed to break the black tank waste gate this week. It's going to be a loooooooooooong weekend....
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