Catalytic Heaters

[Gilm2113]

My wife and I are going tomorrow to take our last look at a 2016 Jayco 31FK where we will make our final decision whether to buy it or not.

We do a lot of dry camping and especially love dry camping in the mountains during the fall here in Idaho. The problem is that it tends to get very cold in September/October. We recently found these catalytic heaters that run off of propane rather than running the furnace all the time and consuming precious battery reserves.
Does anyone have any experience with this type of heater? Did you have it mounted in the motorhome or leave it free standing? Should I run a quick connect propane line into the motorhome to allow me to remove the heater when not in use?

Any feedback, advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[mike837go]

Just remember to have a source of fresh air for the heater. CO poisoning (even with the detector) is a genuine concern.


Something separate to consider, if you are camping is sub-freezing temperatures with an enclosed/insulated underbelly, only the furnace has the ductwork directed under the floor to keep the water systems from freezing. An in-cabin heater won't help.


Consider a small genset (1KW or less) run under an hour per day to keep the battery topped up to run the furnace on the nippy nights. It has worked great for us!

[Mustang65]

Copied from one of my other posts regarding propane heaters inside an RV.
Don

If you use Propane without proper ventilation, here is some background. Just be careful! I personally would not take the chance.
Don

On respiration, CO binds to hemoglobin with an affinity 200-250 times greater than that of oxygen, forming a COHb complex (4). The principal toxic effect of CO exposure is tissue hypoxia because COHb is less efficient at transporting and delivering oxygen. Poisoning symptoms, such as headache, dizziness, and nausea, usually are seen at COHb levels of greater than 10% in otherwise healthy persons (2).

During 1979-1988 in the United States, from 878 to 1513 deaths per year were attributed to unintentional CO poisoning (1). CO poisoning has been reported in many different settings, including homes (5), automobiles (6), and indoor arenas (7). The findings in this report demonstrate the danger of CO from portable gas stoves and charcoal grills, specifically if placed inside a tent or other confined sleeping area. In the United States during 1990-1994, portable fuel-burning camp stoves and lanterns were involved in 10-17 CO poisoning deaths each year, and charcoal grills were involved in 15-27 deaths each year (2). During this same time, an annual average of 30 fatal CO poisonings occurred inside tents or campers (2).

Evening temperatures often drop unexpectedly, even during warmer months of the year. Campers who are unprepared for colder weather may overlook the danger of operating fuel-burning camping heaters, portable gas stoves, or charcoal grills inside tents and campers. Camping stoves and heaters are not designed to be used indoors and can emit hazardous amounts of CO, and smoldering charcoal emits large amounts of CO. Inside a tent or camper, these sources produce dangerous concentrations of CO, which becomes even more dangerous to sleeping persons who are unable to recognize the early symptoms of CO poisoning.

To avoid hazardous CO exposures, fuel-burning equipment such as camping stoves, camping heaters, lanterns, and charcoal grills should never be used inside a tent, camper, or other enclosed shelter. Opening tent flaps, doors, or windows is insufficient to prevent build-up of CO concentrations from these devices. When using fuel-burning devices outdoors, the exhaust should not vent into enclosed shelters. Warnings about the potential for CO poisoning should be stated clearly in the owner's manual and on labels permanently affixed to portable stoves. In 1997, changes made in the labeling requirements for retail charcoal containers* more clearly conveyed the danger of burning charcoal inside homes, tents, or campers. Rather than relying on fuel-burning appliances to supply heat, campers should leave home with adequate bedding and clothing and should consume extra calories and fluids during the outing to prevent hypothermia. Continuing efforts to educate the public by organizations that promote outdoor activities or operate camping areas also should decrease camping-associated CO poisoning.

Full article:
Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Deaths Associated with Camping -- Georgia, March 1999

[Gilm2113]

Thank you Mike, I have been concerned about the CO. The mfg claims they are safe in small enclosed spaces but it is not worth the risk, so we always keep a window or vent cracked to allow some air movement.
The motorhome has a built in gen set and we do use that all the time to keep the batteries topped off. We don't want to run the heater all the time but every once in a while to take the edge off. I understand what you are saying about keeping the water lines warm via the furnace. Usually it may get to 20'ish but warm up during the day. Once it cools below that it has been winterized and put to bed for the winter.
Thanks for your response.

[Gilm2113]

Mustang65 - Thank you for the information. I was aware of the dangers involved with typical propane heaters and stoves but was not sure if there was any difference between these and the newer catalytic type heaters that supposedly have more complete ignition and less by-products being released.
I will keep researching before making any decisions. Thank you again for your time.

[marbles]

I have a catalytic heater mounted on the wall in my 24RKS. Works great when set on low. Definitely takes the edge off overnight and I turn it up before the DW gets up in the morning.

My model is found at Olympian Wave 6 Catalytic Safety Heater - Camco 57341 - Portable Heaters - Camping World. I have mine mounted on the wall in the hall, with the gas lines routed through a storage bin behind it.

These units release very little CO. If there is some concern, add another CO monitor. The description indicates it is intended to be used in an RV.

I am in Utah and have lived and camped in the mountains around Boise. The cold in the morning is short lived and it warms up after the sun comes up. Hate to waste those fall outings. They can be gorgeous and the cold keeps the crowds away.

[bdreinv]

Originally Posted by Gilm2113

My wife and I are going tomorrow to take our last look at a 2016 Jayco 31FK where we will make our final decision whether to buy it or not.

We do a lot of dry camping and especially love dry camping in the mountains during the fall here in Idaho. The problem is that it tends to get very cold in September/October. We recently found these catalytic heaters that run off of propane rather than running the furnace all the time and consuming precious battery reserves.
Does anyone have any experience with this type of heater? Did you have it mounted in the motorhome or leave it free standing? Should I run a quick connect propane line into the motorhome to allow me to remove the heater when not in use?

Any feedback, advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Electric heaters seem to need a lot of power, we have been using are Buddy Heater for years.One green bottle of propane last about 6 hours.You can run a line off your main propane,and there is a quick disconnet for the heater.Once we are up in the morning click the furnace on for a little bit.We don't really camp to much if its any lower than 25 at nite.We do have a 275 watt PV panel dont really worry to much about batteries!Happy Trails

[Gilm2113]

Thanks Marbles, I appreciate the feedback. You are using yours just like we intend - to take the edge off in the morning when we get up and like you say it typically warms up by mid morning in most cases. I need to decide if I want to mount on the wall or use as a portable.
Thank you very much.

[Gilm2113]

bdreinv, thank you. This is the information I am looking for, I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. I wondered how much propane they consumed, seems like if you hooked that up to a small, 1-2 gallon refillable tank you would be set for quite a while!

[bdreinv]

Hey there are Ezy-fill adapters you can refill those green container off say you 5 or 7 gallon tank.I have not bought one of those green propane bottles in 15 years!

[Gilm2113]

I didn't know they were refillable. Thanks for the tip.

[Gilm2113]

bdreinv -- Found it on line, thank you very much. Anywhere from $8-14.

[gocarp]

http://www.mrheater.com/10-000-btu-v...ater-1689.html

This will heat up our 26bh really well. Tied into my onboard propane system with a quick connect located inside.

[Screwby]

I run a Mr Heater Big Buddy in my camper to take the chill off and conserve propane during the day when boondocking in the cold. I run the Big Buddy during the day to keep the camper warmer then switch to the furnace at night to heat the underbelly and turn off the Big Buddy until morning. I tied into the main TT propane line behind my stove and installed a 12' quick connect hose so I feed it with onboard propane.
The Big Buddy has a built in tip over protector, a built in low oxygen kill switch, and combined with the TTs CO detector I'm comfortable letting it run during daylight hours. I'd never sleep with it on unless I cracked a window somewhere near me.

[Gilm2113]

Gocarp, Screwby - Thank you for the information I really appreciate the information. I think this the type of unit we are going to with. The ideas and recommendations have been very helpful.
Thanks again

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by Gilm2113

My wife and I are going tomorrow to take our last look at a 2016 Jayco 31FK where we will make our final decision whether to buy it or not.

I see in the other thread, you made the decision! Congratulations.

As I mentioned over there, we have the same make/model/year. I've had it out a few times in 20* temps. A couple of thoughts.

1. Keeping the slide in helps during the really cold nights. As does keeping the shades down and blocking off the cab with a heavy blanket.

2. If you can camp w/ electricity, I found the electric heat elements in the AC unit to do a great job of keeping the unit warm. We were in mid 30's a few weeks ago and the electric heat worked well.

3. Either my propane gauge is broken or this thing sips propane. It really seems to use less propane than our 2008 Coachmen -- which was much smaller. The propane furnace heats the coach up quickly. But it seems to cycle frequently if it's cold out.

4. Make some test runs in your driveway.

5. And, like I posted, Macy's is running a sale out here on electric blankets. They'll use 150, 200 or 300 watts at most. So keeping the coach at 65* and using an electric blanket is probably a better use of energy.



Come summer, let's compare notes.
Staying cool in the 31FK has been a real chore.

[Gilm2113]

Pconroy --
Thanks for the great ideas, we typically run into temps in the teens when we go camping up in the mountains in the fall but like you it can warm up into the 40-50's during the day with no problem. It's that shock when you first get up in the morning and crawling out of the down comforter! I like to get up before sunrise to go out and take pictures but it would be nice to be able to have something to take the edge off for my wife while she is waiting for me. All my other C's had dual batteries so going down to one has me a little concerned but we will see what happens. I do run the generator but have always hated running them too long when you are in a nice mountain campground!

How do you like the on demand water heater? I have never had one and was wondering how they performed.

[Bassdogs]

It is important to note that there is a world of difference between the common campstove or older style gas heaters and newer catalytic heaters like Mr heater and other ventless propane heaters. The smaller catalytic style heaters are commonly used in RVs but I would not recommend using them during sleep hours. All of my fellow houseboat owners routinely use the larger style catalytic heaters to heat their boats. Since we use full hook up sites we tend to use electric heaters and set the tstat on the onboard furnace to kick in when the electric heaters fall behind. When temps fall below freezing we use the electric heater in the bedroom and rely on the furnace as primary in the main cabin area with one electric heater set on low to reduce the cycling on the furnace.

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by Mustang65

Copied from one of my other posts regarding propane heaters inside an RV.
Don

If you use Propane without proper ventilation, here is some background. Just be careful! I personally would not take the chance.
Don

On respiration, CO binds to hemoglobin with an affinity 200-250 times greater than that of oxygen, forming a COHb complex (4). The principal toxic effect of CO exposure is tissue hypoxia because COHb is less efficient at transporting and delivering oxygen. Poisoning symptoms, such as headache, dizziness, and nausea, usually are seen at COHb levels of greater than 10% in otherwise healthy persons (2).

During 1979-1988 in the United States, from 878 to 1513 deaths per year were attributed to unintentional CO poisoning (1). CO poisoning has been reported in many different settings, including homes (5), automobiles (6), and indoor arenas (7). The findings in this report demonstrate the danger of CO from portable gas stoves and charcoal grills, specifically if placed inside a tent or other confined sleeping area. In the United States during 1990-1994, portable fuel-burning camp stoves and lanterns were involved in 10-17 CO poisoning deaths each year, and charcoal grills were involved in 15-27 deaths each year (2). During this same time, an annual average of 30 fatal CO poisonings occurred inside tents or campers (2).

Evening temperatures often drop unexpectedly, even during warmer months of the year. Campers who are unprepared for colder weather may overlook the danger of operating fuel-burning camping heaters, portable gas stoves, or charcoal grills inside tents and campers. Camping stoves and heaters are not designed to be used indoors and can emit hazardous amounts of CO, and smoldering charcoal emits large amounts of CO. Inside a tent or camper, these sources produce dangerous concentrations of CO, which becomes even more dangerous to sleeping persons who are unable to recognize the early symptoms of CO poisoning.

To avoid hazardous CO exposures, fuel-burning equipment such as camping stoves, camping heaters, lanterns, and charcoal grills should never be used inside a tent, camper, or other enclosed shelter. Opening tent flaps, doors, or windows is insufficient to prevent build-up of CO concentrations from these devices. When using fuel-burning devices outdoors, the exhaust should not vent into enclosed shelters. Warnings about the potential for CO poisoning should be stated clearly in the owner's manual and on labels permanently affixed to portable stoves. In 1997, changes made in the labeling requirements for retail charcoal containers* more clearly conveyed the danger of burning charcoal inside homes, tents, or campers. Rather than relying on fuel-burning appliances to supply heat, campers should leave home with adequate bedding and clothing and should consume extra calories and fluids during the outing to prevent hypothermia. Continuing efforts to educate the public by organizations that promote outdoor activities or operate camping areas also should decrease camping-associated CO poisoning.

Full article:
Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Deaths Associated with Camping -- Georgia, March 1999

This information needs to be updated as it appears the studies and stats date back to 1999 and earlier. Modern catalytic propane ventless heaters are not in the same category as the common gas camp stoves lanterns and charcoal grills that should never be used to heat an enclosed area. These studies are not relevant to the modern ventless propane heaters that can and are commonly used in RVs to supliment heat.

[Gilm2113]

Thanks Bassdogs. We are looking at the Mr. Heater type unit to only take the edge off once we are up. During the night we stay pretty warm with a down comforter.