Drain air from air tanks

[ohiocamp]

I am getting the Seneca ready for winter, I winterized the plumbing and filled up the fuel tanks and added fuel stabilizer. I wanted too see if someone could give me some directions on how to drain the air and water from the two air tanks and what would this do to your parking brake.

Thanks
Ohiocamp
2016 Seneca HJ

[Robbbyr]

Draining the air won't do anything to the parking brake, the absence of air pressure causes it to apply.

I do not have an air brake-equipped Seneca, mine has the 4-wheel hydraulic discs. But I do have an air system for the parking brake, engine clutch fan, rear suspension, and my added air horns. I have not seen any recommendation to drain the air for storage. Mine does have an automatic moisture removal valve on my main (wet) tank, I do periodically trigger it to make sure it is working and no water is left in tank.

[abarkl]

As mentioned the tanks should be checked and drained of any residual water at about every fuel fill.
With our diesel pusher which was equipped with air bags and brakes, with the engine off we would simply push the brake pedal several times to expel all the air in the tanks.

[Mwade]

If you have air brakes, the tanks should be drained every day you use your vehicle. That should be part of your pre-trip. Owners of vehicles with air brakes should know how they work, and operate. Their is a difference in how you hard brake with juice brakes, and air brakes. Your air brakes should be tested before every trip.

[WaltW]

My Seneca doesn't have air brakes so I am guessing some. On my DP there were lanyards on the tanks that you pulled to drain moisture. Suggest that you ask Jayco support if you this capability.

[Robbbyr]

While I didn't get a creeper, I did not see any lanyard-operated drain valves on the air brake-equipped Senecas I have looked at. Owners of newer Senecas have reported these units do not have an air dryer, so I am guessing they just have an automatic drain valve as does my non-air brake chassis. Maybe even more than one?

[RyRoRyan]

I simply just pump my brakes once I shut the engine down the release the air from my system. Takes a few pumps but it does the trick.

[Mwade]

plumping your air brakes after shutting down the engine does nothing! You need to drain the air from the air tanks to drain the water from them.

[RyRoRyan]

Originally Posted by Mwade

plumping your air brakes after shutting down the engine does nothing! You need to drain the air from the air tanks to drain the water from them.

I have a unit with air brakes. Pumping my brakes DOES dump the air. It WONT dump the water. My first post is not incorrect. I wish freightliner put air dryers on all of their rigs. How often you need to bleed also is based where you live. You obviously are going to need to bleed it way more often if you live in humid Florida, however I rarely will get anything in my tanks as I live in a dry climate.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by RyRoRyan

I have a unit with air brakes. Pumping my brakes DOES dump the air. It WONT dump the water. My first post is not incorrect. I wish freightliner put air dryers on all of their rigs. How often you need to bleed also is based where you live. You obviously are going to need to bleed it way more often if you live in humid Florida, however I rarely will get anything in my tanks as I live in a dry climate.

Even though none of our Senecas, air brakes or not, don't have an air dryer, they do have a moisture ejector valve. Mine is a Bendix and works on a pressure differential to open and release condensed moisture from my "wet" tank. Mine seems to work well automatically, I still manually activate it regularly and never got more than a few drops from it.

I would prefer a "real" dryer, may install one myself next year.

[RyRoRyan]

I cant find it right now, but didnt someone say that by adding the dryer or some other device that they were able to get the stupid compressor clicking noise from reverberating through the tank(s)?

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by RyRoRyan

I cant find it right now, but didnt someone say that by adding the dryer or some other device that they were able to get the stupid compressor clicking noise from reverberating through the tank(s)?

I don't recall seeing that thread, do not know whether it would help or not. My unit has a distinct gear train rattle whenever the compressor is pumping. Cummins and Freightliner both looked at it and said it is a normal characteristic of the ISB engine with that compressor. No need to worry they said!

Not having air brakes my compressor doesn't run all that much, I usually only can hear it at startup sitting still. On the road do not notice it. But 33+ years of sirens and air horns has left me somewhat hearing impaired. Just ask my wife!

[Mwade]

Ryan, that's what I was talking about. Of course pumping the brakes will get rid of the air, it does nothing for getting rid of the water.
I suggest reading a technical review on air brakes. This will explain how they work, how you are supposed work them, and maintenance on the system. As it always happens on any forum, some statements are factual, and some are just opinions. Read and study the system for yourself from a reputable source.

[Robbbyr]

We seemed to have somewhat deviated from the OP's question, but we are still talking about Seneca air systems at least!

Here is a link to the automatic drain valve as installed on my rig by Freightliner. The document refers to both heated and non-heated versions, mine is not heated. It explains the valve's operation and how to test it. Working properly, it should expel any condensed moisture from the tank.

Now whether other years, and especially air brake-equipped chassis, have the same valve (or even more than one) I cannot say. But this document is one small "piece" that may help owners better understand their coach's systems.

http://www.plazafleetparts.com/uploa...stallation.pdf

Hope the link works for everyone!

[javamon]

Thanks for the tech document Robbbyr. Paragraph 2 under "OPERATION" leads me to believe that pressing the brake pedal, and hence decreasing pressure, causes the valve to open and expel water/oil:

"When reservoir pressure drops slightly (approximately 2 psi),
air pressure in the sump cavity opens the exhaust valve
(Figure 4) and allows moisture and contaminants to be
ejected from the sump cavity until pressure in the sump
cavity drops sufficiently to close the exhaust valve."

If my assumption is incorrect, what other condition (not including opening the valve manually) would cause the valve to open.

Nice stuff to know.

[javamon]

Should have read the tech document further before last comment.

SERVICE CHECKS
OPERATING TEST
With system charged, make several foot valve applications
and note each time an application is made, an exhaust of
air occurs at the exhaust port of the drain valve. If no air
comes out, push the wire stem. If no air comes out, there
may be a plugged filter in the adapter which should be removed
and discarded.

So, as far as this automatic valve is concerned, pressing the brake pedal does exhaust water.

[ready2retire&drive]

ON my 2015 seneca I just have air ride and air park brake, I contacted Jayco as to why no air dryers on their units especially in colder climates, was told they do not spec their units with them from the factory and it would be my nickel to install it final cost at Freightliner 2800.00 but now have dryer air hopefully. I also plumbed in an air line from my main tank and attached the drain to the generator framing now can drain tank daily without crawling underneath unit

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by ready2retire&drive

ON my 2015 seneca I just have air ride and air park brake, I contacted Jayco as to why no air dryers on their units especially in colder climates, was told they do not spec their units with them from the factory and it would be my nickel to install it final cost at Freightliner 2800.00 but now have dryer air hopefully. I also plumbed in an air line from my main tank and attached the drain to the generator framing now can drain tank daily without crawling underneath unit

My goodness it seems that the labor portion of the installation was very high! A Meritor Wabco System Saver 1200 dryer is usually less than $200. I know there would be some air line modifications required, but wow!

Where did they mount the dryer, somewhere easily accessible for cartridge changes?

[ready2retire&drive]

The labour portion was aprox 1000.00 the rest was factory brackets and fittings , air lines, tax, etc, etc. Welcome to the canuck buck difference given the exchange rate and shipping and duty on any given day adds on somewhere between 30 and 40 percent to what you guy's pay. They mounted it in front of the pass front tire , flip the hood and it is all there wide open , so much so that I am thinking of fabricating a cover to prevent rock's from hitting it all the time

[ready2retire&drive]

Hey ROBBBYR!!!! You got me thinking so I pulled my work order this is the price just have to add in 5% tax in on the bottom number the first number I gave you had a reflash on the cruise control which was not part of the air dryer install just so you can see how things cost up here , gord INSTALL AIR DRYER MOUNTING BRACKETS. INSTALL AIR DRYER. REMOVE COMPRESSOR DISCHARGE HOSE,AND REROUTE. INSTALL NEW COMPRESSOR DISCHARGE LINE TO AIR DRYER. INSTALL AND ROUTE NEW SENSE LINE FROM GOVERNOUR ,TO DRYER. MAKE HOSE EXTENSION . HOOK OP TO TANK LINE,AND ROUTE TO DRYER. SECURE ALL LINES. TEST SYSTEM. PARK UNIT OUT FRONT. CORRECTION QTY EXTD PRICE UNIT PRICEDESCRIPTIONITEM
850.00LABOR (1) 002F/A12-25425-000 TUBE-COMPRESSOR DISCHARGE,META 176.82 -176.82 1 002X/PH 209P 8 6 BUSHING (G0816B-08-06) 1.59 1.59 1 002X/PH 48F 10 8 CONNECTOR (G1416-08-10) 3.36 3.36 10 002X/GLH G1212-04 1/4" NYLON AIR BRAKE HOSE 0.51 5.10 1 002X/PH VS68NTA4 2 COUPLING (G7016-02-04) 1.66 1.66 1 002X/PH 149F 10 6 MALE ELBOW(G1496-06-10) 6.87 6.87 1 002X/PH VS68NTA4 4 CONNECTOR (G7016-04-04) 2.04 2.04 10 002F/GRO 83 6021 TIE STRAP-11.75X.18,BLK,NYLON, 0.16 1.60 10 002F/GRO 83 6029 TIE STRAP-15.25X.3,BLK,NYLON,1 0.34 3.40 2 002X/PH 20620 8 8 FITTING (3505-08-08) 13.25 26.50 2 002X/PH 42F10 UNION (G1414-10-10) 3.74 7.48 2 002X/GLH G7ETM-04 CLAMP 1.38 2.76 1 002F/BW 065660 AD-9 AIR DRYER 768.63 768.63 1 002F/12-21552-000 BRKT-RH FWD FRAME M2 74.42 74.42 1 002F/12-21551-000 BRKT-FWD FRAME ADPTR AD9 97.26 97.26 1 002F/A12-11593-094 HOSE ASSY-AIR,DISCHARGE,TEFLON 129.28 129.28 1 002F/A12-25425-000 TUBE-COMPRESSOR DISCHARGE,META 176.82 176.82 1 FRT FREIGHT 60.00 60.00
JOB#6 EXPRESS ---- PARTS: 1,191.95 -- LABOR: 850.00 -- TOTAL 2,041.95 plus 5% GST