Girard tankless water heater

[blujay40]

Update: Received the ECO today and attempted to install it. The ECO is located near the back right of the unit so was quite a reach to get to it without a long shaft small headed Philips screw driver and you can only get one hand in there. When trying to remove the two small screws holding it in place, they would spin but not back out. Arrgghh.

So in order to try and get these out, I needed to be able to get two hands back there, which is impossible because the front of the unit is blocked by a metal panel where the control board box is located. I called the tech service line at Girard to get guidance on removing the panel and control box. Although I don't remember his name, he was very helpful and supportive. After he said I would be ok doing so, I removed about 10 screws, clipped a couple of zip ties, and disconnected about a half dozen modular wire connectors and was able to move everything aside. Even though I build and repair desktop computers for a hobby and feel comfortable with this type of stuff, I still take pictures of EVERYTHING before starting so I know for sure where things connect back to.

Once everything was out of the way, it was still a pretty tight space to try and work but I managed to get two hands back there and while holding a penny against the back of each screw, I tried to remove them again. Sadly, the still wouldn't back out!!! Arrrrrrgggghhhhh.

At this point, I didn't feel comfortable proceeding any further to try and get this new ECO installed, so I put everything back like it was, made sure it worked again so I wouldn't be sleeping in the truck for a while, and sent an email to Girard, letting them know the results. I totally expected to just live with things the way they are until we are able to get the unit back into the dealership. Boy was I wrong!

To my utter shock, the GM of Girard, Jerry Rennert AGAIN called me back after normal hours when he saw my email. Long story short, he wants me to locate a mobile repair service and he is going to ship a new unit with the higher temp ECO installed to them and have them swap out my entire unit!!!

I can't say whether all of this will finally end up resolving our issues, but color me totally impressed with the extent they are willing to go to try and resolve my issues. THIS is what customer service should look like and makes my efforts and patience seem worth it all!!!!!! KUDOS GIRARD!!!!!!!

[iamflasunshine]

Well we have a NEW Jayco class C Gray Hawk RV. Like I said NEW. We have had several problems but now have a problem with the tankless water heater. It will not lite we have pushed the rest button and it will lite but will not stay lit. We will be taking it in to get fixed but will not be at Camping World. We had to have the keyless lock replaced and they really messed up our door.. Will be posting the place if he does good work

Sunshine

[oldmanAZ]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new class C.

Tankless water heaters do not heat water unless a hot water faucet is turned on since there is no tank of water to heat up. Do you have water connected to the unit or have your water pump on? Have you tried opening a hot water faucet? Was it working correctly during your PDI?

[blujay40]

Well, I think we have it about as good as it's going to get.

Girard shipped me a new unit with a higher temp ECO already installed and this morning, Gary's RV Service in Port Charlotte, Florida swapped out the units in about an hour. The end result is that I think we now have a tankless water heater that will meet all of our requirements. The DW has already given her stamp of approval!!!!

Not only are my E3 error codes a thing of the past and I can turn hot water on and off "on demand", but I am able to mix in cold about half way as well before the burner shuts down. I suspect it is because mixing that much cold causes too low of a flow rate thru the Girard. If their Gen 4 unit can operate at about half the flow rate it does now, and can maintain their price advantage over say a Truma, I think they could be really close to a "residential" type solution at a competitive price point.

So I wish to give shout outs to Jerry Rennert and his co-workers at Girard who went above and beyond as well as Gary's RV Service crew in helping us get ours working in a timely and satisfactory manner.

Back to my previously delayed "to do list".

[3fivers]

We have a 2016 Greyhawk that had the tankless water heater. First we had a problem with the igniter not firing when asking for hot water and we took it to the dealer and they had to order a part and it was repaired. But the rest of this thread is better. After we got the heater repaired we tried it right in our yard, both showers and kitchen sink and were not happy. We felt the tankless heater is only good if you are using full hook-ups for showers. Anyway, another issue is that we bought this RV off the lot and I asked the dealer if we ordered one instead could we get one without the Girard? They said no. Hmmmm, well that led me to writing a letter to Jayco explaining the problems with the Girard. Also to take note, I had read other threads that said Jayco was swapping out the Girards for 6 gal gas/elec. under warranty, if within the time period, which is what they did for us. The bottom line is this, if you have a Girard heater and you are still under warranty just send them a letter stating the problems I outlined and I am sure they will swap it out. There is a lot of complaints out there about the Girard water heater.

[blujay40]

Originally Posted by 3fivers

We have a 2016 Greyhawk that had the tankless water heater. First we had a problem with the igniter not firing when asking for hot water and we took it to the dealer and they had to order a part and it was repaired. But the rest of this thread is better. After we got the heater repaired we tried it right in our yard, both showers and kitchen sink and were not happy. We felt the tankless heater is only good if you are using full hook-ups for showers. Anyway, another issue is that we bought this RV off the lot and I asked the dealer if we ordered one instead could we get one without the Girard? They said no. Hmmmm, well that led me to writing a letter to Jayco explaining the problems with the Girard. Also to take note, I had read other threads that said Jayco was swapping out the Girards for 6 gal gas/elec. under warranty, if within the time period, which is what they did for us. The bottom line is this, if you have a Girard heater and you are still under warranty just send them a letter stating the problems I outlined and I am sure they will swap it out. There is a lot of complaints out there about the Girard water heater.

First, I strongly agree that the Girard (and other tankless water heaters) are a "better fit" for those that usually camp with full hookups or go no more than 1-2 days and have gray/fresh water tanks of sufficient size to handle it. In short, the Girard is NOT for everyone, and I am glad that Jayco not only realizes this now, but is helping those like you that are not "happy campers".

There should be more of an effort by Jayco, dealerships, and especially salesmen, to help buyers understand the differences, but we all know that is NOT going to happen.

With that said, I have read many of the same "complaints" about the Girard that you and others have, but that begs the question of how many are out there that are happy with their Girards and didn't bother to post their "opinions"?

Is it the "holy grail"? No, it's not. I think where many "complaints" arise from the Girard (other than parts issues) have to do more with the "expectations" some have of them in comparison to traditional water heaters. They aren't "traditional" water heaters, and therefore should not be expected to act like one. I also think, because of these differences, that they should be plumbed and configured differently than they are from the factory to work as well as they can from the start. However, for those that are hooked up fully more than not, swap out the factory shower head and remove the water restrictor and shutoff valve, they can and do "perform" almost like home.

So at least for the moment, we are truly enjoying our Girard and are "happy campers".

[WaltW]

bluejay40, in 12 years of camping we have not had to remove parts, step out of the shower to adjust water temp, go from galley to bath to adjust water temp, or run the pump in CG's with lower water pressures. My expectations are simple...it should work at least as well as it always has if not better.

[hoppers4]

Originally Posted by WaltW

bluejay40, in 12 years of camping we have not had to remove parts, step out of the shower to adjust water temp, go from galley to bath to adjust water temp, or run the pump in CG's with lower water pressures. My expectations are simple...it should work at least as well as it always has if not better.

Well said!

[blujay40]

Originally Posted by WaltW

bluejay40, in 12 years of camping we have not had to remove parts, step out of the shower to adjust water temp, go from galley to bath to adjust water temp, or run the pump in CG's with lower water pressures. My expectations are simple...it should work at least as well as it always has if not better.

Walt,

I agree with you in the sense that "it should work at least as well as it always has if not better", but I must add the caveat, "IF" we are comparing apples to apples, which I don't think we are. By the simple fact that one has a tank and one doesn't is enough to expect a few differences in the end result.

I also agree that the current iterations of the Girard are not as "flexible" as the current iterations of tank water heaters are in regards to where they work well and where they don't, but put the Girard in an environment that meets it's operating environments, and it does a pretty good job and does provide unlimited hot water "on demand" as it is designed to do. Ours is operated with 60# of water pressure and approx. 3 gal/min of flow. Because of that, we NEVER have get out of the shower to adjust the temp or run from the galley to the bath to change it. It is set at one temp and is left there, just like it should be. We mix cold in whenever we need to lower the temp, just like with a tank heater, or at home. BUT, we also have unlimited hot water and we can do dishes, bathe the dog, and both take 20+ minute showers without ever having to wait or change a thing.

So are the Girard and others "ready for primetime" for everyone? Absolutely not. is there room for improvement, heck yes! Operation at much lower flow rates and variable burners for starters such as the Truma is currently using. Is the Girard and possibly other tankless solutions ready to replace the tank water heater market? No, especially if limiting water usage is a major concern for your situation. BUT, if you are aware of their current shortcomings AND can operate them in an environment that allows them to operate "by design", then they work pretty well and given a few more years to further develop their technologies (how long have tank water heaters been around?), and if they can introduce an electric as well as gas heating capability, who knows?

[Cycledoc675]

blujay40, I share a similar opinion about my 2nd generation Girard. My previous C class had a 6 gallon Suburban which I was happy with. I had to figure out the Girard on my own, but afterwards I go the hang of it. It still isn't perfect....sometimes the water gets hotter during the shower and you have start playing with the flow rate and occasionally turn the temperature knob down. But mostly, it works well from start to finish. It appears that the initial iteration of the 3rd gen looks like it has had some reliability problems, so I will continue to adjust the knob on what seems to be a more reliable 2nd gen unit in my 29UM. I have been using mine for 2 years, mostly boondocking on the water pump, with no problems. I did just purchase a new Oxygenics showerhead and it works very well with the Girard and the water pump.

[Eric&DianeN]

We have the Girard tankless heater and "knock on wood" haven't had any issues at all. We do camp mostly while connected to city water so we will try out with just fresh tank to see how it goes this spring and let you all know. We were at first worried about having the tankless heater after hearing a lot of bad experiences but have since really enjoyed having it. Glad to hear you can get great customer service from Girard though just in case!

[GeorgiaRV]

I have a 2017 29MV with a Gen 3 Girrard Tankless WH. I found that once you get the temp set to a comfortable temp (107) for me it works great for shower and kitchen sink. Note that you do not have to mix in any cold water, just use the hot water only knob. Couple things I have noticed...

1. the bathroom sink will rarely get hot water to come out, even with just the hot water valve open. I think it is due to not having enough water flowing through the faucet to get the HW tank to kick in.
2. The tankless water heater works well both hooked to city water connection or boon docking. However when boon docking, because of the need to conserve water you really have to work with it to save water. When you first turn on the hot water valve in shower it will be cold for a little bit before the burners kick in and the tank starts heating the water as it flows. When boon docking, that initial cold water you would need to capture in a pan or something. Once it starts coming out hot you are good to shower. But again when boon docking you might be doing a military style shower were you get wet, turn off water soap up and then rinse off. This makes it tricking when you turn off and / on the hot water in the middle of a shower, trying to capture the cold water not to waste it or fill up gray tank with that wasted cold water.

Bottom line so far I like the Tankless water heater, especially when hooked up to city water. Its a little tricky when boon docking if you are trying to stretch your water and gray tank usage. If you are going to be boon docking more than going to camp grounds with hook ups, You might consider getting a conventional water heater.

For those that are avid boon dockers, what has your experience been with the Tankless water heater?

[jgerhard]

We do a lot of boon docking, and as much as I wanted the tankless to work for me, it just couldn't. I did all the tips and tricks and I got it to work perfectly with hookups.

These things just use too much water sensing when water volume is high enough to ignite the burner.

I sold the tankless for more than a new tanked water heater costs and the difference just about covered the incidentals I needed to convert over including paint (I have full body paint). If they ever perfect a tankless, I can always go back.

I LOVE my tanked water heater, what a difference. It has an electric heater too, and with both on, it "almost" performs like a tankless with constant hot water.

http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/me...lbums1132.html

[anav8or]

Hi all - as I mentioned in my previous post, we recently traded in our 2015 Seneca on a new Class A with a Truma AquaGo installed in it. It is a tankless heater fueled by propane, much like the Girard but with a clever design improvement. The model we have is Truma's AquaGo Comfort which has a small (1.3 liter) tank which is kept hot all the time. This helps to "fill the gap", giving you hot water quickly while the burner lights up. It has two settings - comfort which keeps the water in the small tank at 120 deg, and eco which keeps it around 90 (I think). Both settings use a small amount of propane even when water isn't flowing. You can also turn the function off if you don't mind waiting a little longer for the water to get hot. There are no other settings - no rotary dial, no temperature setting.

We camped this weekend and tried it out. We're in Ohio where campgrounds have all water turned off, so we went with only what fit in the fresh tank. The experience was a nice improvement over the Girard in our Seneca. We had no problem maintaining hot water at all taps on the water pump. Showering, even Navy-style, was no problem - water was instantly hot again when turning the flow back on after soaping up.

Although it still took a few seconds to get hot water when you first turned a tap on (especially Friday night when it dropped down to about 12 degrees out), it functions much more like a traditional hot water tank.

[hoppers4]

Nice! The Truma sounds like a big improvement over the Girard. The small reservoir was a good idea.

[blujay40]

Originally Posted by anav8or

Hi all - as I mentioned in my previous post, we recently traded in our 2015 Seneca on a new Class A with a Truma AquaGo installed in it. It is a tankless heater fueled by propane, much like the Girard but with a clever design improvement. The model we have is Truma's AquaGo Comfort which has a small (1.3 liter) tank which is kept hot all the time. This helps to "fill the gap", giving you hot water quickly while the burner lights up. It has two settings - comfort which keeps the water in the small tank at 120 deg, and eco which keeps it around 90 (I think). Both settings use a small amount of propane even when water isn't flowing. You can also turn the function off if you don't mind waiting a little longer for the water to get hot. There are no other settings - no rotary dial, no temperature setting.

We camped this weekend and tried it out. We're in Ohio where campgrounds have all water turned off, so we went with only what fit in the fresh tank. The experience was a nice improvement over the Girard in our Seneca. We had no problem maintaining hot water at all taps on the water pump. Showering, even Navy-style, was no problem - water was instantly hot again when turning the flow back on after soaping up.

Although it still took a few seconds to get hot water when you first turned a tap on (especially Friday night when it dropped down to about 12 degrees out), it functions much more like a traditional hot water tank.

Thanks a lot for the update. It speaks a lot when every review coming out for the Truma gets to be repetitive AND continually positive. Not only does the Truma use that "tank" to keep a limited amount of readily available hot water available at first demand, but as a "mixing tank" to prevent those "cold blasts" when the burner turns on and off, like during a "navy shower".

I talked extensively with a couple of Truma reps at the Tampa RV show a few weeks ago, and came away even more impressed than I already was by reading reviews like yours.

Another big concern for us is in regards to "maintenance", especially when it comes to descaling the unit. Girard recommends that a "trained service technician" perform the maintenance once a year, where the unit you have (Truma Comfort) now offers a "self cleaning" function that can easily be performed by the user by simply giving the unit a "pill" and flip a switch.

The Girard is a "true to form" tankless water heater that when working properly, does with it says it will, which is to provide unlimited hot water. It's downfall, is that it is NOT able to function in all RV types of situations and is using a design more meant for a "residential" setting. The Truma, from the ground up, WAS designed for RV use and combines the best of the RV design (a tank) with the best of a residential design, unlimited hot water.

So at least for now, we are "living" with our Girard and working around/with it's shortcomings. It is still a better solution for us that a traditional water heater would be. However, I could be "scratching that itch" at any time.

[norty1]

Thanks for posting. That is refreshing news to know that some one has improved on a "better mousetrap."

[Butch C]

I recently bought a slightly used 2016 Greyhawk MV and have used it a couple of times and found the Girard to work great in an RV park with hook ups but not so good while boondocking and trying to conserve water. I have one question for anyone out there that might know. How can I tell if mine is a Gen 2 or Gen 3 Girard? The manual says it is Model GSWH-2.
Thanks Butch C

[anav8or]

Originally Posted by Butch C

I recently bought a slightly used 2016 Greyhawk MV and have used it a couple of times and found the Girard to work great in an RV park with hook ups but not so good while boondocking and trying to conserve water. I have one question for anyone out there that might know. How can I tell if mine is a Gen 2 or Gen 3 Girard? The manual says it is Model GSWH-2.
Thanks Butch C

The Gen 2 has a rotary dial - less hot to more hot. The Gen 3 has a digital controller with temp setting in degrees. I believe that model number is the Gen 3.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[Butch C]

Thanks, mine has the digital dial in degrees so Gen 3 it is.