Greyhawk CCC

[s1njin]

Hey Gang,

Can you guys chime on on CCC for these rigs? The yellow sticker on the one I'm considering says I have 1619 pounds to play with.

Seems low to me; is it?

Seems like there isn't much left once you put a family of 4 in there and hit the road. ME:200, DW: 140: DD1: 50, DD2:50

Am I overthinking this? I just assumed these things would carry 2k+ pounds of cargo easy.

[s1njin]

In comparison the Redhawk 26XS my dealer has on the lot has a whopping 3179 pounds. I don't think I'm considering the Greyhawk anymore.

The last thing I want to do w/ a Class 'C' is start obsessing about weight and playing that game all over again like w/ a Travel Trailer. W/ a family of 4, I'm not going to be anywhere near 3179 pounds.

[TX_Arvee]

We loaded the Greyhawk 31FS for a week in Disney, 2 adults and 3 kids, 5 bikes, spare tire, food, drinks and pretty much tons of stuff. We weighed at a cat scale along the way and was only 210 pounds over on the rear axle.

[reitrof]

Are you sure it was lbs and not kg's?

[s1njin]

Absolutely sure it was pounds. The dealer also had the BigFoot levelers on it so that supposedly added another 500+ pounds easy according to him. W/o the levelers that would have put it at 2100 pounds; much more realistic.

I've since ordered a 2015 Redhawk 26XS w/ the Bigfoot Levelers. Should put me around 2500-2600 pounds of CCC - right where I wanted to be in the first place.

[s1njin]

Eh .... looks like the Redhawk won't be in until July - so now I'm not so sure I'm ordering it. I have a day to figure it out.

[msturtz]

A fully loaded Greyhawk has essentially no CCC left. Our 31FS had less than 500# on the rear axle from the dealer with full tanks and no clothes or food.

[TX_Arvee]

msturtz, have you weighed it?

[s1njin]

That's what I figured; by full tanks do you just mean gas or also water? I don't boondock much so water isn't a big deal to me.

The 29MV has very little cargo holds on the back end of it; most of the cargo holds and usable cabinet space is between the axles; a good thing given the CCC of the rig.

[s1njin]

I wish more Greyhawk owners would chime in here. Seems to me that many makes of Class 'C' motorhomes have generally the same problems: CCC and rear axle weight. My dealer has sold hundreds of them and never has any come back w/ structural failure. I'm sure there are a boatload of buyers/owners that don't even consider the weights of these things.

That being said, my family checks in around 450 pounds total, so that still leaves me a decent amount of cargo before I get above the max.

[msturtz]

Originally Posted by TX_Arvee

msturtz, have you weighed it?

Yes I have. Empty tanks with my infants wife and 8 year old a few clothes I am at 14,500#. At delivery with dealer installed options and all of the factory options - mine came fully loaded with all available options I was about 500# under max GVRW. To Jayco's credit they use much better suspension than competing rigs. The Hellwig helper springs, anti-roll bar, Mor-Ryde isolators, Bilstein shocks all help with the suspension and CCC. I had a fairly frank discussion with the local Ford dealer about CCC and GVRW. The limiting factor is actually the tires nothing else. What they have told me is as long as you are "reasonable" with your weight you should be fine i.e. less than 10% over GVRW which in this case would be 15950 for a E450. They insisted that there is a lot of give engineered into the system to deal with this. The problem is in edge cases where something goes wrong or maintenance is neglected such as tire inflation you are in trouble.

[msturtz]

Originally Posted by TX_Arvee

We loaded the Greyhawk 31FS for a week in Disney, 2 adults and 3 kids, 5 bikes, spare tire, food, drinks and pretty much tons of stuff. We weighed at a cat scale along the way and was only 210 pounds over on the rear axle.

What year Greyhawk do you have and what options do you have on your rig? I.e. do you have the bigfoot leveling system? BTW what you are seeing is not uncommon you are as loaded heavy in the rear and light in the front. How did you mount the spare tire? I heard that the rear frame rails are not strong enough for a rear spare tire mount. When I purchased my 31FS the dealer had a "sub-frame" beef up done and then the rear tire mount welded to that. This also upgraded my towing from 5000# to 7500# which is the Ford maximum for the E450 chassis.

[s1njin]

Originally Posted by msturtz

Yes I have. Empty tanks with my infants wife and 8 year old a few clothes I am at 14,500#. At delivery with dealer installed options and all of the factory options - mine came fully loaded with all available options I was about 500# under max GVRW. To Jayco's credit they use much better suspension than competing rigs. The Hellwig helper springs, anti-roll bar, Mor-Ryde isolators, Bilstein shocks all help with the suspension and CCC. I had a fairly frank discussion with the local Ford dealer about CCC and GVRW. The limiting factor is actually the tires nothing else. What they have told me is as long as you are "reasonable" with your weight you should be fine i.e. less than 10% over GVRW which in this case would be 15950 for a E450. They insisted that there is a lot of give engineered into the system to deal with this. The problem is in edge cases where something goes wrong or maintenance is neglected such as tire inflation you are in trouble.

So your yellow sticker says 600 pounds of CCC? That's something else.

Good to know about what your Ford guy said. I keep reminding myself that even 2% 'heavy' is still a whopping 300 pounds. I have enough wiggle room to stay under my CCC, but it makes me feel better knowing I have some to stay under. That's just me though.

My dealer was more inline with your thoughts. "Sold hundreds of Greyhawks - we don't get them back w/ catastrophes".

[TX_Arvee]

msturtz, my spare is up front on a front mounted receiver hitch. It's a 2012 without a leveling package, but has all the Jride componants. (although not called that) Traveling we carry about 5-8 gallons of water.probably around 10 total gallons of water with the grey and black content added.

[ChuckD37]

Originally Posted by s1njin

I wish more Greyhawk owners would chime in here. Seems to me that many makes of Class 'C' motorhomes have generally the same problems: CCC and rear axle weight. My dealer has sold hundreds of them and never has any come back w/ structural failure. I'm sure there are a boatload of buyers/owners that don't even consider the weights of these things.

That being said, my family checks in around 450 pounds total, so that still leaves me a decent amount of cargo before I get above the max.

It is simple. I am overweight and I know it. The way Greyhawk set it up you don't, well, I don't have much extra, and there is not a D--m thing I can do except to be careful. We don't carry much we don't need and the toad will hold a lot. If I had known I would not be a proud owner but we all learn and I did. You have to be real careful when you have to cross over thin ice and that's the way it goes.

What can you do after you get it? As I have found, Not Much...

[s1njin]

I haven't gotten mine yet but its working its way through the service/delivery process at my dealer. I never travel with full water and I don't tow a toad (I'll use Enterprise for longer trips). I feel comfortable with the CCC's I have for a 4 person weekend/vacation getaway. We won't be using this coach for anything over 10 days, with the norm being 3-7.

[s1njin]

Originally Posted by msturtz

I had a fairly frank discussion with the local Ford dealer about CCC and GVRW. The limiting factor is actually the tires nothing else. What they have told me is as long as you are "reasonable" with your weight you should be fine i.e. less than 10% over GVRW which in this case would be 15950 for a E450. They insisted that there is a lot of give engineered into the system to deal with this. The problem is in edge cases where something goes wrong or maintenance is neglected such as tire inflation you are in trouble.

I just called the Ford truck center that my dealer sends their rigs over to for maintenance and they said close to the same thing. Being a few hundred pounds over "wouldn't do squat except maybe lighten the front end depending".

Keep in mind 1% of 14500 is 145 pounds. 1% isn't a lot, but with the capacity of these rigs it amounts to a good amount of functional weight.

So as I don't travel with more than 6-8 gallons of water (no tank water heater on my year rig so that helps too), my whole family ways less than 500 pounds, and we have no toad (nor plan to), I think I'm going to be fine. I'm almost positive I can be comfortably under my sticker, but its nice to know there is some 'fudge' built in. I don't even plan to use the two small cargo lockers on the far tail end as I'm sensitive to the rear end weight implications. Plus these things don't tend to stay 'full' with fuel very long, so it goes on a 6 pound diet for every 7-9 miles driven.

Oh, and I feel a whole lot better too !!!

[s1njin]

I just couldn't make peace w/ the CCC of that 29MV. I was losing sleep over it and I just couldn't shake the feeling that I was messing up. For my own comfort level.

I just took a look at a Winnebago 31h. CCC on that rig is a whopping 2903 pounds !!! Plus the wheelbase percentage rings up at .562, so it should be even more stable.

Taking a test drive on Friday. We'll see how it handles/feels/sounds compared to the Jayco.

[msturtz]

Originally Posted by s1njin

I just couldn't make peace w/ the CCC of that 29MV. I was losing sleep over it and I just couldn't shake the feeling that I was messing up. For my own comfort level.

I just took a look at a Winnebago 31h. CCC on that rig is a whopping 2903 pounds !!! Plus the wheelbase percentage rings up at .562, so it should be even more stable.

Taking a test drive on Friday. We'll see how it handles/feels/sounds compared to the Jayco.

A few things to consider. The Greyhawk has a one piece front cap which will significantly reduce the likelihood of leak, the Greyhawk has auto-leveling jacks, a larger TV the J-Ride package which adds weight but also provides better suspension. We looked at the class C units and they are all on the E450 chassis which is limited to 14,500# to get around that you need to get a super c or class A

[s1njin]

Yep, I'm aware of all that. I specifically mentioned the front cap and they pointed to the extensive use of metal framing for the cap that eliminates the sagging that they say overtime affects most caps and creates the leaks along the seams. They said eventually the non-metal supported ones will all start to pull away from the frame in some fashion.

So I'm not sure if that's accurate or half accurate or what. I'td be nice if they put that solid cap on their supposedly superior framing though.

I'm hung up on the jacks for sure - they are nice. I'd have to add them after-market.

I also brought up the J-ride extensively. They said the ride has a lot to do with the weight balance and geometry of the rig. So I said fine, let me take one for a drive on Friday. So we'll see. I can always add the shocks, the Winnie has a airbag system in the rear. No sway bar though, however I do have a better wheel base ratio so I'm not sure how much it would help (or not).

They tell me the Winnebago has all cabinets and appliances and furniture moored into metal framing which cuts down on the creaks and groans along the way. I'll see first hand about that too.