Not happy

RoWest · 01-25-2016, 11:39 AM

Schwintek. The name means 'headache'. The first failure in our February 2015 new Seneca 37FS was in Washington after getting it in to travel and second this weekend while boondocking in Quartsite, AZ. I'm no engineer, but 2 geared motors the size of a Ballpark frank to move a 16 foot x 30 inch slideout seems optimistic. Not a year old and 3-1/2 weeks for an appointment with the selling dealer to look. This may be camel-back breaking.

Grumpy · 01-25-2016, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoWest

Schwintek.I'm no engineer, but 2 geared motors the size of a Ballpark frank to move a 16 foot x 30 inch slideout seems optimistic. .

Winnie uses it on a "Full wall" slide, so JAYCO is not alone.

RodgerS · 01-25-2016, 12:23 PM

Schwintek has apparently upgraded their stuff before 2015 to a heavier duty gearing and motors. No, this is very unfortunate to hear that they installed the Schwintek stuff. Check to see if they have a heavier duty upgrade. These full wall slide really need some heavy duty stuff to handle the weight and bulk.

RodgerS · 01-25-2016, 12:27 PM

There are Schwintek slide classes for technicians, you might want to attend one. I would if I had a Schwintek slide.

Jopopsy · 01-25-2016, 12:45 PM

I too have a Schwintek slide, but the slide is only maybe a foot wider than the width of a queen bed. If it were any wider I wouldn't have bought the MH I did. The wall w/ the couch and dinette on it is a Power Gear.

RoWest · 01-26-2016, 09:34 AM

The coach is a 2014 purchased new in Feb 2015. Probably the lightweight motors. 'Don't mean to be a wuss, but the coach has had multiple repairs and WEEKS (total to months) in the shop for other issues beyond owner fixable. The patience exhibited by the members of this forum is commendable, but how many hundreds of thousands are you expected to spend before you buy a properly constructed product? I built high-end custom homes and would have starved with the RV industry quality and service.

RodgerS · 01-26-2016, 10:03 AM

"The patience exhibited by the members of this forum is commendable, but how many hundreds of thousands are you expected to spend before you buy a properly constructed product? I built high-end custom homes and would have starved with the RV industry quality and service."

The path you are putting words to is logical on the face, but irrelevant. These are products that are customized converted products (like cobbling together everything at Costco), targeted to a low knowledge impatient buyer with good credit, caught in a dream, who doesn't appreciate the complexity of the coach, and buys on first impression. And there are plenty of buyers, so why should the industry change? Credit their excellent marketing, cute reviews, excellent marketing materials, and the ignorance of first time buyers.

My wife was just like that yesterday, impressed by what she could see and oblivious to what was behind, underneath, and on top of the patina of the unit. But she had me alongside of her to gently bring her out of her dream state.

You are the quality control part of the industry and usually discover the issues often well after you sign and take the unit off the lot. This is an expensive optional toy that breaks a lot from all the earthquakes you subject it to.

Worst, you don't have lemon laws to protect you so you are in the zzzz as soon as you take it. Most happy owners learn to live with this and tend to move to the best "word of mouth quality" units they can afford to minimize their suffering, and fix as much of this as they can on their own.

The most savvy buyers, as I understand it, actually buy used premium units for the most part. New to used prices fall faster than snow (nice word - snow!).

I have attempted to deploy as many nice words as possible!

oldmanAZ · 01-26-2016, 10:24 AM

RodgerS:

I, for one, appreciate your knowledge, ability to help us gently out of our dream state, and willingness to deploy nice words. Thank you.

Sherm

tawoo · 01-27-2016, 02:19 PM

Just when I'm ready to take the plunge from my paid for, perfect (after I've fixed everything) Jayco travel trailer into a new Class C you guys bring me back from Lala land.
I can't thank you enough.

Jopopsy · 01-27-2016, 02:34 PM

My 'C' is in for warranty work as I type. I got my first full season of it under my belt, and the things that were 'wrong' were small things that could wait a season for attention. I'm thoroughly pleased with mine.

tawoo · 01-27-2016, 03:27 PM

Jopopsy, I'm really happy to hear your satisfied with your purchase. Honestly, small issues would not bother me at all. I kinda like fixing things. But, I'd be heartbroken spending $60-70k and then have problems that would not allow me to use my RV when I wanted to. I've read posts from folks who have had their motorhome in the shop more then they use it.
That would not be fun at all.

Grumpy · 01-27-2016, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tawoo

. I've read posts from folks who have had their motorhome in the shop more then they use it.
That would not be fun at all.

And that is a very small number compared to the number of units sold. Also those problems are as a result of a bad dealer in the majority of cases.

Jopopsy · 01-27-2016, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tawoo

But, I'd be heartbroken spending $60-70k and then have problems that would not allow me to use my RV when I wanted to. I've read posts from folks who have had their motorhome in the shop more then they use it.
That would not be fun at all.

Agreed 100%. I bought a Winnie from Camping World a few years back. I wouldn't buy a Coleman lantern from Camping World now. What a mess that experience was ! To Grumpy's point - the selling dealer has a LOT to do w/ the quality of the coach you get. If the dealer skimps on the PDI and the mechanics are no good - you'll probably end up disappointed.

RodgerS · 01-27-2016, 08:58 PM

One could argue that there are no really good statistics to go by and that the owners with complaints on the forums (not limited by any means to Jayco nor even cause for singling out Jayco) are a small minority.

Certainly, no one seems to advocate not buying and using these toys.

Grumpy, yes the dealer causes a lot of problems, but so do the mfgs who lack good quality control systems (commonly written about). And don't forget it is also commonly known that the first time buyers often come back within a year or tow and rebuy because they didn't get it right the first time.

But from my point of view there are enough complaints, enough unhappiness, and enough suffering to at least warrant some efforts to be made to minimize problems.
For example:
1) most owners advocate doing your own PDI on a new unit.
2) few would argue that these units are simple and not all that complex.
3) when you do have a problem there is some degree of worry about the common service wait times and repair problems.
4) there are lots of things to worry about and it is not uncommon to miss or get it wrong on key issues like failing to match a 5th to a tow vehicle, not knowing one is over the weight limits for a mh, not knowing one needs power protection, etc.
5) missing or ignoring suggested preventative maintenance.
6) not knowing what to do when all of a sudden the electricity fails.
and plenty more.

I have been fortunate to have spent a couple years researching this stuff, getting my training, and don't regret being told I have been spinning my wheels, indecisive or overthinking it. Some of my best ideas have been developed/identified in the last 3 or 4 months. My wife admitted to me last week that when I first started talking about this she had no clue what I was talking about because this RV thing is not something they do in mainland China.

And bottom line you don't need an RV to have fun and I don't feel I have missed out on anything the last two years.

TwinCommander · 01-27-2016, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodgerS

And bottom line you don't need an RV to have fun and I don't feel I have missed out on anything the last two years.

Unless all you have done is tent camp, in complete crap weather, with kids.

It's no longer enjoyable, and you want an RV.

Sdk8103 · 01-28-2016, 06:25 AM

While I have little camper experience, but we are working on that, I have a ton of boat buying and use experience, which I think has many similarities. What I have experienced in the boating world, and I think it applies here as well, is that even when buying the better or even best brands, is that picking the right dealer is as important as the right brand. There is no reason that a boat or camper should go back for warranty work, or any kind of work, and sit there for many days or even weeks. If it does, I think it is a reflection more on the dealer than the brand. Just my opinion and experience in buying and owning 5 new boats over the years.

Jopopsy · 01-28-2016, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinCommander

Unless all you have done is tent camp, in complete crap weather, with kids.

It's no longer enjoyable, and you want an RV.

I was a Boy Scout for 10 years in my youth. Did a lot of camping in all weather, all seasons. Mummy bags and snow camping to lightweight bags in the dog days of summer.

4 years ago I got myself a nice Kodiak Canvas tent and took my DW and two DD's camping. We LOVED it. I had the camp stove, lantern, propane coffee pot, etc. Definitely 'glamping', but we were out there.

Than the rain came in. Hearing it crash on the tent canopy, made for rotten sleep that night. We woke up early in the AM to 1/3 of the tent in a puddle, my one DD sleeping in said puddle, and mud all over the place outside.

As I got out of the tent, salty as all hell, I'll never forget looking across the lane and watching some older guy wearing his glasses, reading a paper at his dinette w/ the light on. We made eye contact, and I was thinking to myself "That's the way to do it". I'm sure he was chuckling to himself and maybe thinking "Look hon, there's another one of them Eagle Scouts !"

In the years that followed: Pop up --> Hybrid --> MH. Never looking back baby.

rgolding · 01-28-2016, 07:08 AM

Boats, campers and motor homes are very similar. Campers and motor homes don't sink as fast as boats. All year old campers, motor homes and boats are better than brand new ones. The number of units created per year with all of the different options and models is minimal compared to the numbers of cars and trucks created in a day and should never be compared to the automotive and truck industry. At best, they should probably be compared to the mobile home industry. And yes, that is sad.

LSA376 · 01-28-2016, 07:48 AM

Excellent delivery, spot on!

Camper_bob · 01-28-2016, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jopopsy

I was a Boy Scout for 10 years in my youth. Did a lot of camping in all weather, all seasons. Mummy bags and snow camping to lightweight bags in the dog days of summer.

4 years ago I got myself a nice Kodiak Canvas tent and took my DW and two DD's camping. We LOVED it. I had the camp stove, lantern, propane coffee pot, etc. Definitely 'glamping', but we were out there.

Than the rain came in. Hearing it crash on the tent canopy, made for rotten sleep that night. We woke up early in the AM to 1/3 of the tent in a puddle, my one DD sleeping in said puddle, and mud all over the place outside.

As I got out of the tent, salty as all hell, I'll never forget looking across the lane and watching some older guy wearing his glasses, reading a paper at his dinette w/ the light on. We made eye contact, and I was thinking to myself "That's the way to do it". I'm sure he was chuckling to himself and maybe thinking "Look hon, there's another one of them Eagle Scouts !"

In the years that followed: Pop up --> Hybrid --> MH. Never looking back baby.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this, thank you! It was almost like reading my own memories!

BTDT. Now I'm that guy reading the paper in the comfort of my home on wheels...

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